Blue Jays Discussion: Blue Jays 3-5 in spring training. The ship is sinking. Cut Everybody.

[Ciao]

Shields Is overrated. If you look at his career numbers at Fenway and Yankee stadium they are terrible. Now throw in having to make half his starts at Rogers Centre and he would have a lot more rough starts than he had the past two years in Kansas City.

There will be better pitchers on the market next year that will be more worthy of an investment.

I don't mind missing out on Big-Game James. I think it would just be another bad contract and a pill to swallow. I'd rather suffer with the kids.

 

[TootooTrain]

I don't get what this means.

All offseason movement is done. Rosters are locked. We're mediocre. Everyone drinks koolaid. February 10th.

 

[Swervin81]

I don't mind missing out on Big-Game James. I think it would just be another bad contract and a pill to swallow. I'd rather suffer with the kids.

More like Big Game Lames... ever seen his postseason numbers?

 

[TheTotalPackage]

All offseason movement is done. Rosters are locked. We're mediocre. Everyone drinks koolaid. February 10th.

O...k...?

If you guys thought I was down on the team and off-season, it was anything but. I truly think, as things stand now, deficiencies and all, that this team is more than capable of putting together a solid season.

 

[King Mapes]

I hope to, yeah. I need to figure out a theme otherwise it'll just be 25-30 pics of Norris and his amazing beard

Time is also a factor. Hopefully in the next couple of weeks I'll be able to carve out some time to really sit down and play around with ideas until something sticks.

Alright sounds good.

The Norris one will be epic!

 

[Al14]

All offseason movement is done. Rosters are locked. We're mediocre. Everyone drinks koolaid. February 10th.

No playoff appearance for the Jays once again.

 

[Shimso]

hah. CP24 just said that its going to cost you more to watch the Jays next year, due to a $2 increase, yet they also said the Scarborough LRT cancellation fee cost less than anticipated - 75 million instead of 85 million.

Prices shouldn't have gone up, but its funny how they treat a $2 increase to fans as being worse news than a $75 million dollar penalty to the City.

 

[theaub]

More like Big Game Lames... ever seen his postseason numbers?

What's this postseason you speak of?

hah. CP24 just said that its going to cost you more to watch the Jays next year, due to a $2 increase, yet they also said the Scarborough LRT cancellation fee cost less than anticipated - 75 million instead of 85 million.

Prices shouldn't have gone up, but its funny how they treat a $2 increase to fans as being worse news than a $75 million dollar penalty to the City.

Pity them when they see what the Raptors prices are going to be next year (albeit, the Raptors actually are good, but nonetheless the Jays are extremely affordable still compared to the rest of baseball)

 

[ryno23]

What's this postseason you speak of?



Pity them when they see what the Raptors prices are going to be next year (albeit, the Raptors actually are good, but nonetheless the Jays are extremely affordable still compared to the rest of baseball)

Having been to 16 out of the 30 MLB park within the past 3 years Toronto is pretty expensive compared to most stadiums. Their 500 level tickets are cheap so that drops the AVG price down quite a lot.

I usually sit in the 100 level or lower deck in most places and found Toronto one of the highest out there. Even more is the concessions in Toronto is one of the highest in baseball beer is way more expensive in Toronto than most of the places I have been. So yeah Bos, PHI were more expensive but then some of the concession stuff were cheaper.

For the record here are the place I have been

TOR, CHC, CHW, LAD, LAA, SD, BAL, BOS, NYY, MYM, WAS, CIN, DET, PHI, PIT, CLE

I can't see how the Jays can justify increasing prices without a playoff team....do they think they are the Leafs haha.

IF they want more people to come make the lower bowl tickets more affordable and drop their concession prices so families can afford to come to the park.

Obviously this is only my opinion based on me actually attending games in the above mentioned parks and I didn't rely on stats from some site. I may have gotten lucky at a few game such as LAD where it was $1 Dodger Dog days or $3 beer night in WAS.

 

[dredeye]

Phillies may be looking to add a veteran catcher once spring training starts. Their looking for good/cheap vets that are positive club house guys. Ive never heard negative stuff about Navarro so this could end up being a fit. They have some real attractive pen arms but their young and likely not going anywhere. Maybe this is what the jays were discussing for Papelbon. I would love for the Jays to find a way to make it a bigger deal and get Hamels at the same time. Won't happen but sure would be nice. I imagine the Papelbon deal would be Navarro plus a lesser prospect for Papelbon with salary retained

 

[Woodman19]

Phillies may be looking to add a veteran catcher once spring training starts. Their looking for good/cheap vets that are positive club house guys. Ive never heard negative stuff about Navarro so this could end up being a fit. They have some real attractive pen arms but their young and likely not going anywhere. Maybe this is what the jays were discussing for Papelbon. I would love for the Jays to find a way to make it a bigger deal and get Hamels at the same time. Won't happen but sure would be nice. I imagine the Papelbon deal would be Navarro plus a lesser prospect for Papelbon with salary retained

Ken Giles Please

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Having been to 16 out of the 30 MLB park within the past 3 years Toronto is pretty expensive compared to most stadiums. Their 500 level tickets are cheap so that drops the AVG price down quite a lot.

I usually sit in the 100 level or lower deck in most places and found Toronto one of the highest out there. Even more is the concessions in Toronto is one of the highest in baseball beer is way more expensive in Toronto than most of the places I have been. So yeah Bos, PHI were more expensive but then some of the concession stuff were cheaper.

For the record here are the place I have been

TOR, CHC, CHW, LAD, LAA, SD, BAL, BOS, NYY, MYM, WAS, CIN, DET, PHI, PIT, CLE

I can't see how the Jays can justify increasing prices without a playoff team....do they think they are the Leafs haha.

IF they want more people to come make the lower bowl tickets more affordable and drop their concession prices so families can afford to come to the park.

Obviously this is only my opinion based on me actually attending games in the above mentioned parks and I didn't rely on stats from some site. I may have gotten lucky at a few game such as LAD where it was $1 Dodger Dog days or $3 beer night in WAS.

I have a partial season plan (flex pack) to Nationals Park. I've never heard of a three dollar beer night. They have some nights where before first pitch, certain beers are $5...but never heard of $3 beer night. It's actually one of the more expensive concessions in baseball.

Camden is a dump, and is priced appropriately.

Funny thing about the AL East; three of the top four average ticket prices in the league belong to AL East franchises.

 

[dredeye]

Ken Giles Please

Right. That's exactly who I was eyeing. Something tells me he ain't going anywhere.

 

[ryno23]

I have a partial season plan (flex pack) to Nationals Park. I've never heard of a three dollar beer night. They have some nights where before first pitch, certain beers are $5...but never heard of $3 beer night. It's actually one of the more expensive concessions in baseball.

Camden is a dump, and is priced appropriately.

Funny thing about the AL East; three of the top four average ticket prices in the league belong to AL East franchises.

Not sure what the promo day was but I can see if I can find my stubs from that day to see what promo was going on but it was $3 beer night.

Like I said earlier some concessions are higher than other which WAS was one of them then you have Pit and Cle which has very affordable pricing for both beer and concessions.

Well Bos and NYY are the drivers of that and what other franchise notice they can raise the price higher especially when those teams come to town call them "premium games" as they know fans of those other teams travel.

 

[King Mapes]

I'm getting excited for this season! Can't wait to see how our young guns perform on the mound.

 

[613Leafer]

I feel like, yet again, the Jays are neither committing to retooling/rebuilding around a new core, nor are they really committing to truly "going for it" with the current one.

2B, LF, CF, relief pitching, closing pitching, and starting pitching all have question marks. Even 1B/DH have question marks, depending on which one EE isn't playing at in any given game. We're very strong at RF, C, and 3B, but too many question marks elsewhere on the roster.

I'd prefer to see the Jays EITHER up their payroll by 20-30M, and address their pitching needs + add a legitimate outfielder. Which wouldn't address all needs, but which would at least fix a few question marks. Or simply sell off some of their older core (Bautista + Dickey + Buerhle for example) in order to reorganize around some of our younger core pieces like Donaldson/Martin/EE/Stroman/Sanchez/etc.

The timeline of our young pitchers such as Stroman, Sanchez, Norris, Hutchinson, Hoffman, etc simply doesnt align very well with Bautista/Dickey/Buerhle. Even if some of them take steps forward, it will be occurring as our veteran pitching are likely taking steps back. We're probably 2-3 years away from our pitching growing internally to the level we need it to be at, at which point Bautista will be ~36-37 years old.

It's not like I think all of our question marks will be bad. Just that I think it's VERY unlikely that all of Stroman/Sanchez/Hutchinson/Pompey/Saunders/Smoak/Goins/etc play to the level that we hope they can, while simultaneously we would need to see very limited regression and/or injuries from our key older veterans.

Too many "ifs" need to go our way for this team to contend IMO.

 

[TootooTrain]

I feel like, yet again, the Jays are neither committing to retooling/rebuilding around a new core, nor are they really committing to truly "going for it" with the current one.

2B, LF, CF, relief pitching, closing pitching, and starting pitching all have question marks. Even 1B/DH have question marks, depending on which one EE isn't playing at in any given game. We're very strong at RF, C, and 3B, but too many question marks elsewhere on the roster.

I'd prefer to see the Jays EITHER up their payroll by 20-30M, and address their pitching needs + add a legitimate outfielder. Which wouldn't address all needs, but which would at least fix a few question marks. Or simply sell off some of their older core (Bautista + Dickey + Buerhle for example) in order to reorganize around some of our younger core pieces like Donaldson/Martin/EE/Stroman/Sanchez/etc.

The timeline of our young pitchers such as Stroman, Sanchez, Norris, Hutchinson, Hoffman, etc simply doesnt align very well with Bautista/Dickey/Buerhle. Even if some of them take steps forward, it will be occurring as our veteran pitching are likely taking steps back. We're probably 2-3 years away from our pitching growing internally to the level we need it to be at, at which point Bautista will be ~36-37 years old.

Too many "ifs" need to go our way for this team to contend IMO.

Don't neccesarily disagree but there are a few points I'd like to counter.

First of all LF is not a question mark. Saunders has been a serviceable outfielder with good defense for the past 5 years. With the offense the jays possess, as long as you're getting quality defense down the middle (CF, 2nd) we should be good in that regard.

The timing of young pitchers entering the equation is difficult to predict or facilitate ahead of time. In this case though you have Buehrle entering his final year of his contract which will create a spot in the rotation for Sanchez next season who will replace him. Seems like we're getting a steady flux of young arms at the right moment. It's what consistently good teams like St.Louis have been doing for years.

It's not like I think all of our question marks will be bad. Just that I think it's VERY unlikely that all of Stroman/Sanchez/Hutchinson/Pompey/Saunders/Smoak/Goins/etc play to the level that we hope they can, while simultaneously we would need to see very limited regression and/or injuries from our key older veterans.

As for this point. Tell me one team that has players who are locked in for stable production at every position. Having your question marks being composed of young players coming through the system is the best kind to have and what fans have been wanting for years.

 

[King Mapes]

I'll respectfully disagree.

Almost every team has a questionable bullpen. Why? Because relievers, in general, are questionable.

2B is a weakness but look at the rest of our infield. We still have one of the best.

CF is semi-questionable but I believe in Pompey.

All offseason I've been saying Saunders is a very underrated move. This proves it.

Our starters are only questionable because they're young but look at teams like Tampa.

Our defence is improved GREATLY.

 

[Blitzkrug]

I think the Jays have the pieces required to have a solid year.

Whether their idea of "solid" is good enough for the playoffs is another question.

 

[613Leafer]

As for this point. Tell me one team that has players who are locked in for stable production at every position. Having your question marks being composed of young players coming through the system is the best kind to have and what fans have been wanting for years.

It's not the issue of having no question marks, it's the issue of having limited # of question marks. Maybe 1-2 question for the starting rotation, 1-2 question marks on the field, and then a solid team everywhere else.

Jays have 3+ question marks in the starting rotation (actually technically almost everyone is a question mark, we have zero starting pitchers in their primes who are proven over multiple seasons), question marks in relief/closing, and 3-4 question marks on the field.

 

[King Mapes]

It's not the issue of having no question marks, it's the issue of having limited # of question marks. Maybe 1-2 question for the starting rotation, 1-2 question marks on the field, and then a solid team everywhere else.

Jays have 3+ question marks in the starting rotation (actually technically almost everyone is a question mark, we have zero starting pitchers in their primes who are proven over multiple seasons), question marks in relief/closing, and 3-4 question marks on the field.

You're exagerating the question marks though. LF isn't a question mark and the bullpen is a question mark on nearly every team.

 

[FreeBird]

I'm getting excited for this season! Can't wait to see how our young guns perform on the mound.

If history means any thing they'll probably end up in Birmingham to see Dr. Andrews by June or July.

 

[trellaine201]

I like the Saunders move. Especially if he stays healthy. But i guess you could say that about most players. He's a good fielder. Definitely better defense then we had.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

It's not the issue of having no question marks, it's the issue of having limited # of question marks. Maybe 1-2 question for the starting rotation, 1-2 question marks on the field, and then a solid team everywhere else.

Jays have 3+ question marks in the starting rotation (actually technically almost everyone is a question mark, we have zero starting pitchers in their primes who are proven over multiple seasons), question marks in relief/closing, and 3-4 question marks on the field.

One could argue that every pitcher in baseball is a question mark.

I'm curious as to what your definition is of a pitcher's prime years.

Also, please name the teams in the AL East with less question marks than the Blue Jays.

 

[theaub]

I have a partial season plan (flex pack) to Nationals Park. I've never heard of a three dollar beer night. They have some nights where before first pitch, certain beers are $5...but never heard of $3 beer night. It's actually one of the more expensive concessions in baseball.

Camden is a dump, and is priced appropriately.

Funny thing about the AL East; three of the top four average ticket prices in the league belong to AL East franchises.

Yeah, I've been to 10-12 ballparks in the past five years and the only thing that Toronto doesn't have is some random concession discounts. And even though there are $5 beers at some parks (ie Washington, Cincinnati etc), its for a 8 oz cup which in terms of dollar value is pretty much on par with what Toronto charges ($10-11 for 16 oz). When I was in Cincinnati last year their 'speciality beers' ran at $10 for a 12 oz cup which was ridiculous.

I also would disagree that Toronto's lower level ticket prices are high. Just taking a quick look around the league while there's some distinct exceptions (Pittsburgh/Florida to name a couple), the vast majority have a number of $80+ seats in the lower level, of which there are zero in Toronto besides in the action seats.

Admittedly, I am extremely biased about the cost of Jays tickets due to the nature of having the pass, but I mean, my parents had seasons in 532 during the glory years and they paid $23 per ticket to sit up there. Seasons up there now are 50% of that.