Blake Wheeler... draft reach?

[inthewings]

I never said he didn't end up better but he was a stretch at #5 and looking back is still a stretch at 5 but he did become an effective player.

The question was "was Wheeler a reach at the draft and how big of a reach", answering that question he was a huge reach one of the bigger ones in the last 15 years but he panned out so it was worth it.

The above quote made it sound like you think the pick was questionable, which I think we can all agree isn't the case. It was an excellent pick.

 

[TheHudlinator]

The above quote made it sound like you think the pick was questionable, which I think we can all agree isn't the case. It was an excellent pick.

My point was poorly worded but I was saying that he was a reach then and in a redraft would be considered a bit early at #5 but he was a good pick especially when you see how many ****** players there were in that draft.

 

[Xokkeu]

The question was "was Wheeler a reach at the draft and how big of a reach", answering that question he was a huge reach one of the bigger ones in the last 15 years but he panned out so it was worth it.

Well he panned out, but it wasn't really worth it for the Coyotes as he left them for essentially nothing.

 

[KingBogo]

It's just an odd thing to focus on now that you have to go about 15 picks to find a guy who looks like he could be a better player over their respective careers. Is it a reach when your pick pans out as well or better than the next 14 picks? IMO it ceased being a reach at that point and just becomes a good pick. But we've largely digressed to semantics now and that's never fun.

The whole idea is to pick who you think is the best player at a given spot. As it turns out, Phoenix did a pretty good job of that. In this case their scouting department was better-informed than the various fans and scouting services that had him ranked lower. Reach or good pick?

This is the line of reasoning I agree with. I think we all get caught up in the various draft lists thrown out prior to a draft and take them as gospel. Teams employee many people and spend lots of $ to do their own evaluation of potential picks. I would much rather my team trust their own staff than the talking heads in the media. Otherwise I could just go draft for the Jets with a couple printed off draft lists.

 

[hbk]

in hindsight it was a fairly astute selection. that being said HF Boards exploded and the Coyote franchise was absolutely ridiculed for making that pick. An entire scouting staff was fired for making that pick.

I remember sitting in the stands at the last draft in Vancouver and some chirpy Canucks fan going on and on about how awful the Coyotes were for taking this kid "Wheeler" that nobody had ever heard of a few years earlier.

As a Coyote fan I was curious and went to see him play a few times when he was playing with Golden Gophers. Every time I came away being underwhelmed and hopeful that with his skating he might in several years play on a 2nd line but had him firmly as a 3rd liner with some upside. Good for him to prove all the doubters wrong. Too bad it wasn't with the franchise that took that gamble on him though. We understand why he did it, we just didn't like it.

 

[XX]

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=86777&highlight=wheeler&page=5

Thread is hilarious if you want to see how bummed and confused Coyote fans were at the time.

 

[kingsfan]

Its your opinion but I would take most of those over Wheeler rather easily especially Ovie,Malkin,Edler,Radulov,Zajac,Grabo,Schneider for my team I would also take Smid and Meszaros over Wheeler as well. The rest is a toss up I think I would take Versteeg over him probably not Ladd and Stafford is a draw.

Mehh, we can agree to disagree, but I think we can both agree that it'd be no big shock if he was taken anywhere after Malkin, Ovie and Edler. So anywhere from 4th to 15th is possible.

The wildcard is really Schnider. Based on his potential, he'd likely be picked right after Ovie and Malkin, but based on what he's actually done thus far (IE proven) he'd fall much farther down the list. I guess it all comes down to what you want to base your list off of.

 

[tfong]

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=86777&highlight=wheeler&page=5

Thread is hilarious if you want to see how bummed and confused Coyote fans were at the time.

Lots of Yotes fans wanted Lauri Tukonen too for some reason Can't believe people thought he was the next coming of Havlat...

 

[TS Quint]

This is the line of reasoning I agree with. I think we all get caught up in the various draft lists thrown out prior to a draft and take them as gospel. Teams employee many people and spend lots of $ to do their own evaluation of potential picks. I would much rather my team trust their own staff than the talking heads in the media. Otherwise I could just go draft for the Jets with a couple printed off draft lists.

And some teams do well listening to their scouting staff and some teams are the Blue Jackets . Just having fun with you BJ fans!!!

 

[MS]

The draft class was such a bad one that scouts started to look anywhere and everywhere for players. Wheeler literally came from not even being on the draft board in the first half of the season to one of the fastest risers in the last few weeks before the draft. He was generally around #35. That doesnt mean a lot, the other big riser was Kyle Wharton. Some teams like to take late developers.

I think it also came out that two other NHL teams wanted to take Wheeler at around 10-15, the Isles were definitely one and I think the others were Dallas and Minnesota. The Coyotes were heavily criticised for not moving down the board to select him later but it wasnt really much of an option nor was there much of a trade return in doing so.

This is pretty much spot on.

Through the 2nd half of the season, Wheeler was generally considered a high 2nd round pick, maybe on the fringes of the first round.

However, it turned out quite a few teams had him ranked much higher than that and were being very hush-hush about it. NYI in particular openly hinted they were going to take him in the #15 range.

I don't get singling out Blake Wheeler as a draft reach. After Ovi and Malkin it was a **** poor draft, that had a top 10 which included Barker, Motoya, and the minor league trio of Olesz, Picard and Valabik. Wheeler on the other hand is the Jets first line right wing, and top point getter last season with 64 points. There are a couple of players after him you can make an argument for being better but for the most part weren't that highly regarded either.

It was one of the biggest reaches ever at the time if you look at 'consensus pre-draft ranking' versus where the player was actually picked. Thomas Hickey is probably the only other pick in the last 15 years that's close.

But yes, obviously it's turned into an excellent pick and the Phoenix scouts nailed it.

It's just an odd thing to focus on now that you have to go about 15 picks to find a guy who looks like he could be a better player over their respective careers. Is it a reach when your pick pans out as well or better than the next 14 picks? IMO it ceased being a reach at that point and just becomes a good pick. But we've largely digressed to semantics now and that's never fun.

The whole idea is to pick who you think is the best player at a given spot. As it turns out, Phoenix did a pretty good job of that. In this case their scouting department was better-informed than the various fans and scouting services that had him ranked lower. Reach or good pick?

Yup.

Anyone saying someone isn't a great pick because another player who went 50 or 100 picks later turned out better just doesn't have a clue. Those players aren't relevent and 0 of 30 NHL teams would have picked the other guy in that position.

The guys being talked about most for that pick were Olesz, Tukonen, and Montoya. Most NHL teams would have taken one of those guys, and ended up with a bum. Phoenix took a risk and ended up with a much better player (who they eventually ended up losing for nothing, but that's not on the scouts).

 

[WarriorofTime]

A shame that he didn't reward the team who believed in him and instead chose to be a selfish *****. Not trying to pick on you WPG fans but I'm glad he got traded off Boston the season they won the Cup. Would love for the same thing to happen to Schultz in a couple seasons.