Bettman Ultimatum: $42.5 M Cap, Final Offer

[bleedgreen]

i bet the nhlpa rejects it tonight, plays this out till the last minute tomorrow before accepting. irony is, they still have to flesh out the rest of the entire cba and get it signed before they can even start getting the players together. they've already said nothing can start until its signed, and both sides will have to vote before that happens.

 

[Habnot]

I am still amazed at the uneveness of public opinion. What Bettman has done today by publishing his letter is unprofessional and indicative of someone who is waging a personal war. It should be very clear to everyone that the end game, from the owners perspective, was to break the union, get rid of Goodenow, and use replacement players.

But in life, sometimes you have to be wary of what you wish for. Lose the season and you might never recover from the damage. If the season is cancelled, and I would be very surprised if the players accept this offer, I think public opinion might shift. Not necessarily for the players, but a backlash against Bettman and the role he has played in destroying our game.

As much as I would like to see hockey, I am privately hoping for the mother of all bombs to be thrown in the midst of the NHL. Maybe then, the game might be reborn - out of the hands of the current group of owners and lawyers that have taken our game hostage.

 

[snepsts27]

The players better get this settled

If I was a player knowing what this offer is, I would take it. If they think about how the average NHL salary will still be around 1.5 mil for a sport that outside the 6 NHL cities in Canada, no one has noticed is missing.

I'm not saying they will accept this 42.5 cap, but they should make a very reasonable counter offer (45 Max).

Don't kill the Golden Goose

 

[FLYLine27*]

When the season is cancelled it is now the owners fault for the majority. 42.5 million? What a joke. Thats still 2.5 million less then the league average salary. If they wanted the NHLPA to think about it they should have made it at least 45 million. Bye NHL for a lonng lonng time. Do they think the NHLPA salary cap offer is going to be on the table still come Sept? I dont think so. Bettman has sealed the fate of the NHL.

 

[NJD Jester]

Ray Ferraro was on ESPN Radio tonight, and had some interesting comments:

1. He said he's still waiting for someone to explain how a cap does anything positive for the league if there aren't enough revenues to go around to begin with ( a good point that is always lost in this debate). His biggest issue with the latest Bettman deal is that there seems to be no spending floor, which means teams can reduce payroll dramatically, not spend any money, turn a profit and never actually vie for the Cup.

2. He thinks the league should come to an agreement in principle with the players, and then simply do community outreach for the next few months in lieu of a season. Then come back with a completely revamped NHL -- including rules changes, new uniforms, etc. -- in the fall.

3. Advocates getting rid of the red line ( ), the AHL rules changes and calling a penalty every time a player puts his stick on another player's body (spoken like a former centerman).

 

[richardn]

I was doing the math on my computers calculator, since Im so smart

42.5 Million each team

2,100,000,000 Revenues

42,500,000 * 30 = 1,275,000,000

2,100,000,000 * 60% = 1,260,000,000

Which means the NHL has still allowed the NHLPA to take up at least 60% of their revenues.

Im not saying every team will reach their hard cap, but thats ALOT of movement from the proposed 52%-54% before...

****ing take it PA.... PLEASE

THe problem with these numbers is that only a few teams will be at the cap max. You need to get the league average payroll to get a true number.

 

[i am dave]

new uniforms

That's the dumbest idea I've ever heard. I'm not kidding. Ray Ferrarro has eaten one too many chicken parms.

 

[Chileiceman]

Ray Ferraro was on ESPN Radio tonight, and had some interesting comments:

2. He thinks the league should come to an agreement in principle with the players, and then simply do community outreach for the next few months in lieu of a season. Then come back with a completely revamped NHL -- including rules changes, new uniforms, etc. -- in the fall.

3. Advocates getting rid of the red line ( ), the AHL rules changes and calling a penalty every time a player puts his stick on another player's body (spoken like a former centerman).

The analysts on ESPN are always wanting changes that they think will make their ratings better.
I'm always hearing them say whenever they show a shootout 'wouldn't it be nice if the NHL did this'.
They're really desperate.

 

[rwilson99]

One thing that has become ABUNDANTLY clear to me is the need for the vast majority of NHLPA members to get a UNIVERSITY EDUCATION. The lot of them are uneducated bumpkins who just got their butts handed to them b/c they couldnt figure out simple economics for themselves, but instead followed the leader unto a wasted season and the loss of the majority of their paychecks.

Dumbasses.

We have a winner!!!!

Is it any wonder that the NHLPA and MLBPA, the two most powerful unions in pro-sports, also have the least educated membership in terms of university education?

 

[incawg]

Bettman's message of "no flexibility or room to negotiate" seems like a fairly obvious negotiation tactic to me. AFAIK, there's no way the NHLPA accepts the NHL's proposal at face value, that's just poor negotiation and they're not idiots. Nor do I see an outright rejection without a counter-proposal, as it's clear that the two sides are starting to get closer. I could see them doing one of two things. First, the much less likely scenario is that they could accept the 42M cap concept, but only with other conditions (ie. a very high salary floor, along with other major concessions from the NHL). More likely, they'll come back with a counter-proposal in the 47-49M range and put the ball back in the NHL's court, knowing full-well that the NHL will look terrible if they let the season slip away over a few million dollars without even negotiating. The likely end result of this scenario is, as most people seem to expect, is a cap of around 44-46M. That's not to say that there wouldn't still be a ton of stumbling blocks remaining. The salary floor, revenue sharing, and luxury tax are just a few that could cause the entire process to implode even with a hard cap number agreement. Still, the fact that there is no longer a "philosophical divide" gives me more confidence than ever that a deal will be reached...if not in time to save this season, at least in time to have a 2005-2006 season. Up until today, I was not very optimistic about the latter.

 

[Scoogs]

THe problem with these numbers is that only a few teams will be at the cap max. You need to get the league average payroll to get a true number.

Well..

Im not saying every team will reach their hard cap

 

[Jobu]

We have a winner!!!!

Is it any wonder that the NHLPA and MLBPA, the two most powerful unions in pro-sports, also have the least educated membership in terms of university education?

Yeah, those football and basketball players are sure geniuses what with their shady D averages in underwater basketweaving.

Please. I'll take MLB and NHL players' collective intellect over the NFL and NBA any day.

 

[bleedgreen]

I am still amazed at the uneveness of public opinion. What Bettman has done today by publishing his letter is unprofessional and indicative of someone who is waging a personal war. It should be very clear to everyone that the end game, from the owners perspective, was to break the union, get rid of Goodenow, and use replacement players.

please. this is no different from both sides walking away pissed last thursday - screaming "thats the last you'll here from us". how many negotiations have happened since they said that? this is the same thing - and it wont be taken any other way. its all negotiation. my only complaint now is with the benefit of hindsight, setting the drop dead date probably couldve moved process along quicker, as it seems nothing happened until they announced there was a news conference. i suppose they had to take it into feb just to show they (both sides) were more serious than last time.
they dont want replacement players, they want a deal. both sides have totally caved in the last 2 days - how are they still trying to break the union?

 

[Regency]

Yeah, those football and basketball players are sure geniuses what with their shady D averages in underwater basketweaving.

Please. I'll take MLB and NHL players' collective intellect over the NFL and NBA any day.

And their pay cheques also!!

 

[X0ssbar]

I'll have to agree that this was a pretty dumb move by Bettman. Now that both sides are speaking CAPguage all further negotiations should be going on behind the scenes and not in the public's eye.

As completely ignorant as this letter was by Bettman both sides cannot let emotions cloud their judgment in this late hour. This is make it or break it time and both parties have to think in terms of what's best for the game - I have to believe the NHL left more wiggle room and 45 mil will get a deal done.

I firmly believe an impasse is unreachable now that both sides are speaking CAPguage so they must continue to give and take through the night to get this thing done by tomorrow.

 

[A Good Flying Bird*]

42.5 is PLENTY...considering the fan base the sport is going to lose over this lockout. And again, these phantom player "consessions" have all been a joke so far

Get a dictionary. Learn to spell the word concession. And look up the definition.
The players have done nothing but give concessions this entire time.

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried.

 

[PigPen]

I don't understand what the NHL is trying to do either. They came so far in a period of a day and Bettman is playing cowboy with his new offer. Just put it at $45 mil and lets get going. Screw Karmanos and Wirtz.

Because 30 times $2.5M = $75M.

The league (says) it lost $224M last year.

The 'pennies' add up.

 

[richardn]

Get a dictionary. Learn to spell the word concession. And look up the definition.
The players have done nothing but give concessions this entire time.

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried.

Agreed. Everyone forgets the fact that they are still agreeing to a 24% rollback on top of a salary cap.

 

[MasterD]

Bettman's message of "no flexibility or room to negotiate" seems like a fairly obvious negotiation tactic to me. AFAIK, there's no way the NHLPA accepts the NHL's proposal at face value, that's just poor negotiation and they're not idiots. Nor do I see an outright rejection without a counter-proposal, as it's clear that the two sides are starting to get closer. I could see them doing one of two things. First, the much less likely scenario is that they could accept the 42M cap concept, but only with other conditions (ie. a very high salary floor, along with other major concessions from the NHL). More likely, they'll come back with a counter-proposal in the 47-49M range and put the ball back in the NHL's court, knowing full-well that the NHL will look terrible if they let the season slip away over a few million dollars without even negotiating. The likely end result of this scenario is, as most people seem to expect, is a cap of around 44-46M. That's not to say that there wouldn't still be a ton of stumbling blocks remaining. The salary floor, revenue sharing, and luxury tax are just a few that could cause the entire process to implode even with a hard cap number agreement. Still, the fact that there is no longer a "philosophical divide" gives me more confidence than ever that a deal will be reached...if not in time to save this season, at least in time to have a 2005-2006 season. Up until today, I was not very optimistic about the latter.

They would not look terrible, they would look like people that apply what they say. They were supposed to cancel the season on sunday, yet they brought it farther to wednesday giving a chance to the NHLPA to negociate a bit more. If the NHLPA does not take their chance, NHL might as well cancel the season, 'Cause if not they'll look like they bluffed last week and got caught, which is no good.

 

[windowlicker]

Get a dictionary. Learn to spell the word concession. And look up the definition.
The players have done nothing but give concessions this entire time.

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried.

What concessions? Where? When?

 

[John Flyers Fan]

We have a winner!!!!

Is it any wonder that the NHLPA and MLBPA, the two most powerful unions in pro-sports, also have the least educated membership in terms of university education?

I'll take the NHL players in a game of smarts over basketball players .... and the majority of football players any day of the week.

 

[Chileiceman]

Do you think we'll hear from Goodenow tonight, or will we have to wait till tommorow?
I think he's going to accept during the press conference to make it more exciting and so he will forever be known as the last minute miracle man.

 

[Chayos]

No. It's 42.5. The rest is benefits, and therefore, not salary.

Not so. If you told the tax man that they were not salary he would stick u in jail.

 

[incawg]

They would not look terrible, they would look like people that apply what they say. They were supposed to cancel the season on sunday, yet they brought it farther to wednesday giving a chance to the NHLPA to negociate a bit more. If the NHLPA does not take their chance, NHL might as well cancel the season, 'Cause if not they'll look like they bluffed last week and got caught, which is no good.

Everybody bluffs in negotiations and, to be honest, the NHL could probably care less if they end up getting called on it. Getting called on this one is nothing compared to the bluffs that both sides have already been called on. The owners said they'd never move off of linkage and the players said they'd never move on to a hard cap....yet, here we are. Playing hardball like this is a common negotiation tactic. I mean, what did people expect, Bettman to come out and say "42 million, but if you ask nicely, we'll move up to 45"? They're trying to squeeze every last penny out here, and in order to do so you've got to play hardball. If the PA comes back with a 47M counter-proposal, I will eat my hat if the NHL sticks to what Bettman said in his letter today and cancels the season tomorrow without even negotiating.

 

[Chileiceman]

Everybody bluffs in negotiations and, to be honest, the NHL could probably care less if they end up getting called on it. Getting called on this one is nothing compared to the bluffs that both sides have already been called on. The owners said they'd never move off of linkage and the players said they'd never move on to a hard cap....yet, here we are. Playing hardball like this is a common negotiation tactic. I mean, what did people expect, Bettman to come out and say "42 million, but if you ask nicely, we'll move up to 45"? They're trying to squeeze every last penny out here, and in order to do so you've got to play hardball. If the PA comes back with a 47M counter-proposal, I will eat my hat if the NHL sticks to what Bettman said in his letter today and cancels the season tomorrow without even negotiating.

Let's not forget the dec. 9 PA proposal. That was the king of all bluffs. They already knew it wasn't going to work and so when the league offered it to them with some triggers that were there just to make sure it worked, they declined it.