Olympics: Bettman hints NHL won't play in 2018 and 2022

[Jussi]

Happy to have given you a chance to get a nationalistic rant off your chest! The fact is that a lot of people, especially outside of North America, watch Olympic hockey because it is part of the Olympics, and they have the home colors on their chest, regardless of what league they are from. The KHL isn't interested in capturing a North American audience - it wouldn't really benefit them. Also, the time zones in Europe, which is the locale that the KHL wants to saturate, are much more proximate for TV viewing than NA. If the NHL stays home, which they almost certainly will, the fact is that it will greatly benefit the KHL by osmosis. Yes, Russia probably would win the Olympics under those circumstances, because they have by far the highest number of players in the KHL. But that would only be part of the benefit.

I would say that the Olympics doesn't necessarily raise new fans that much but it may increase the level of interest of those already even somewhat familiar with game. Someone who may have watched the occasional game in the past may get the spark to watch some more games after seeing some player perform well at the games (like with TJ Oshie). With the social media focused people, alerts of a player or a team performing well can suddenly spark huge interests in a player or the team he's playing at club level.

While the percentage of KHL player in some European teams is high right now and most likely in 2016 as well, that might not be the case in 2018 or 2022. It's very likely that Team Finland will consist mostly if not completely of NHL players again by 2022 at the latest. It really should be noted that the ones who played at the Olympics and Worlds this year have either moved to NHL or well over 30, in some cases 35+. It's unlikely that our current European based players will be as important in 2022 as in 2014.

For those wondering about timezones in 2018, a noon game in Korea would start at 11pm in the East coast in NA. One would think those would be more favorable to NBC for example.

 

[kp61c]

i'd be better to say it outright and nix this stupid idea of reanimating the world cup corpse too.
no, he'll say it, but after years of dithering and dissembling.

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

For those wondering about timezones in 2018, a noon game in Korea would start at 11pm in the East coast in NA. One would think those would be more favorable to NBC for example.

Nagano is in the same time zone as South Korea and in 1998 the USA men's games were played at the following (New York local) times:

Fri Feb 13 vs SWE 1AM to ~3AM
Sat Feb 14 vs BLR 1AM to ~3AM
Mon Feb 16 vs CAN 12AM to ~2AM
Wed Feb 18 vs CZE 1AM to ~3AM

The gold medal game was also played from 12AM to ~2AM.

This is what Bettman is referring to in the video clip in this thread when he said the games would be played in the middle of the night. In order to hit NA East Coast prime time (7:30pm - 10pm) games in Korea would have to start at 9:30am which I can't ever see happening. By comparison in 1998 the earliest any of the men's games started was 1:30pm Nagano time. The last thing the Olympics and IIHF would want are broadcasts going around the world of empty arenas, and I'm sure its hard enough to sell hockey tickets there for evening games, let alones ones when most people are at school or work..

 

[Thesensation19*]

Bettman is right. Games during 2014, and the future locations in 18 and 22 are not going to replicate the popularity as Vancouver did in 2010.

But he is missing many key parts of the 2014 events.
Though the games were mostly during the early mornings of weekdays and weekends, there was a huge turn out for these games. I mean, people I didnt know cared about sports was watching USA vs Russia and many other games talked all over social media. Now I am not saying it was millions of new fans jumping on board but I think you got to realize that even with the challenges of scheduling and location the USA fans did alright.

I mean TJ Oshie is pretty much a star right now because of the Russia shootout win. Several articles in non-hockey papers were talking about him and his life. He was dubbed a hero.

And in Canada... the popularity is bar none the best. I mean, I read recently a Q&A with an Ex-TSN analyst or talk show guy or whatever. He was asked the most suprising thing he learned. He said, how much Canada loves hockey even though he knew that already. During the 2005 lockout there was like a 6am game between Latvia and someone else... Not Canada. And the ratings did pretty solid. Comparable to a low market NHL team game if not more... why? People love hockey, people missed the NHL. People still watched the game in Canada.

So whether the game is played in China or Australia or Mars... get proper TV coverage and you will have ur USA and Canadian fans.

No, no one is saying that those games would generate millions of new fans but its still popular. People love rooting for their country especially during the traditional event of the Olympics. Its proven.

Also, USA was knocked out of the Final game in the semis. Up until then, even though the semis were at a horrible time and channel... the ratings were solid. Once they had no finals in their future, many fans jumped ship. Cant blame them...You have to understand that this is going to happen no matter what tournament it is. Once USA is out, people wont watch. Same with Islanders missing the playoffs by the 3rd qtr mark... ticket sales drop, tv ratings diminish.


What the NHL is not realizing is the potential to grow its brand and the sport in countries where hockey is small if existent at all. Go over there and market. You can potentially hit a population of billions. Getting 1% of the popularity to join in each game is profitable. Especially for the future!

Why is USA basketball so popular overseas like in Asia? International events that have them come over and act like celebrities.

NHL and Hockey can do the same. If the sport grows, more fans will watch and more fans will want to watch the best league in the world.

Its a no-brainer. Let the players play in the tournament they want to play in. Taveres hurt... says I do not regret it and I hope to play again. Many more responses ;like this.

A player can get injured during a club practice. During a work out in preseason. Heck, idk how many guys got hurt in preseason games this year but I would be shocked if it was more then players getting hurt in training camp! So should we rid ourselves of camp? Players can get hurt punching walls when they are angry at practice. Players can get hurt riding a bike during summer training... Why does playing for your country and getting hurt bother people? Its not more likely... Its just as likely.

So lets see what we got here,
1) Players want to play for their country
2) Players love the Olympics
3) Fans have a love for the Olympics and Olympic team sports. No matter where its located.
4) Olympics allow the growth of sports. Any international events do... See FIFA, See FIBA, See history of hockey and the history of any sport!


Simple...
World Cup of Hockey every 2 years rotate with the Olympics.

 

[Thesensation19*]

More than 75% of the NHL gets a break and we all talk about how at the halfway mark of the season this is vital. Were talking about guys who give it 110% every game, sprints back and forth and hit and check and fight... These guys get a nice break. They get a nice vacation... 2 weeks. 3 maybe.

The elite players go play in the Olympics and only a rare amount of guys get hurt because of it.

Most stay in tune, improve and stay in shape. Some guys dont even like rest. They can miss 1 or 2 games per the coaches viewing of his fitness. And give him rest.

Whats the big deal here? There is 82 games... you have reserves for a reason.

How come no one attacks the junior leagues for doing what they do. Take breaks in the season for international events and what not. Why is it such a problem for fans to be okay with this for their NHL teams.

 

[habsrule4eva3089]

It's a problem because it's not going to be on the 11:00 pm news and the NHL disappears from all publications in the USofA, didn't you hear the Bettman interview. A couple of hundred Americans watching the NHL on the news is more important then 30 million Canadians waking up at 4:30 am with millions and millions others watching in Europe to watch the Olympics to that man. We know where his priorities lie.

 

[Yakushev72]

I would say that the Olympics doesn't necessarily raise new fans that much but it may increase the level of interest of those already even somewhat familiar with game. Someone who may have watched the occasional game in the past may get the spark to watch some more games after seeing some player perform well at the games (like with TJ Oshie). With the social media focused people, alerts of a player or a team performing well can suddenly spark huge interests in a player or the team he's playing at club level.

While the percentage of KHL player in some European teams is high right now and most likely in 2016 as well, that might not be the case in 2018 or 2022. It's very likely that Team Finland will consist mostly if not completely of NHL players again by 2022 at the latest. It really should be noted that the ones who played at the Olympics and Worlds this year have either moved to NHL or well over 30, in some cases 35+. It's unlikely that our current European based players will be as important in 2022 as in 2014.

For those wondering about timezones in 2018, a noon game in Korea would start at 11pm in the East coast in NA. One would think those would be more favorable to NBC for example.

In regard to the national composition of KHL players in 2022, I don't understand the point you're trying to make. It sounds like there is a prediction about the future of the KHL imbedded there, but you didn't come out and identify it. If you are saying that a much larger percentage of Finnish players will be sought out by the NHL in the future, I don't know what you would base that on. I've always felt that an NHL team will take a European only if they are clearly better than a North American alternative - a tie goes to the North American. North Americans tend to play the tough, physical style that is vogue in the NHL, and Europeans tend to play a more finesse-oriented game.

In regard to the Olympics generating fans, look no further than the USA. There have been books written about how the American psyche and self-image were depressed after diplomats were taken hostage in Iran and the Soviets invaded Afghanistan, only to have spirits lifted in jubilation over the improbable victory by college kids over the Soviet juggernaut at Lake Placid. The victory reportedly lifted a nation that knew nothing about hockey, much less the college hockey programs the kids represented. Its all about nationalism, drama, and elation that the same viewers would never find in the average Wednesday night game between the Sabres and the Coyotes.

 

[FiLe]

In regard to the national composition of KHL players in 2022, I don't understand the point you're trying to make. It sounds like there is a prediction about the future of the KHL imbedded there, but you didn't come out and identify it. If you are saying that a much larger percentage of Finnish players will be sought out by the NHL in the future, I don't know what you would base that on. I've always felt that an NHL team will take a European only if they are clearly better than a North American alternative - a tie goes to the North American. North Americans tend to play the tough, physical style that is vogue in the NHL, and Europeans tend to play a more finesse-oriented game.

He didn't identify it because there wasn't any. What Jussi is saying is that the amount of Finns in the NHL is increasing not because the NHL GMs have suddenly decided that "we should get more Finns" but because Finland has had plenty of good classes of NHL-worthy players over past few years (and some more in the pipeline) which will increase the number of Finns in the NHL. This will, in turn, decrease the number of Finnish KHLers in future best-on-bests - and therefore, the visibility of the KHL on the international stage.

It has nothing to do with the KHL's development as a league, since the KHL can get better regardless. And I for my own part welcome that scenario. However, any player good enough for the NHL will continue to head that way. And Finland currently producing far more NHL-worthy players than they did, say, five years ago.

What Jussi shouldn't have done however is to predict the visibility of the KHL based on Finland alone. While it's likely that there will be less Finnish KHLers in best-on-best tournaments in the future, no one can say what will be the NHL-KHL ratio with other teams. The overall number of KHLers can actually increase despite of what happens in Finland if countries like the Czech Republic or Slovakia are forced to rely into Europeans more and more. Also, some lesser countries like Denmark, Norway or Belarus may end up producing players who are quite not NHL material but good enough for the KHL.

 

[Jussi]

He didn't identify it because there wasn't any. What Jussi is saying is that the amount of Finns in the NHL is increasing not because the NHL GMs have suddenly decided that "we should get more Finns" but because Finland has had plenty of good classes of NHL-worthy players over past few years (and some more in the pipeline) which will increase the number of Finns in the NHL. This will, in turn, decrease the number of Finnish KHLers in future best-on-bests - and therefore, the visibility of the KHL on the international stage.

It has nothing to do with the KHL's development as a league, since the KHL can get better regardless. And I for my own part welcome that scenario. However, any player good enough for the NHL will continue to head that way. And Finland currently producing far more NHL-worthy players than they did, say, five years ago.

What Jussi shouldn't have done however is to predict the visibility of the KHL based on Finland alone. While it's likely that there will be less Finnish KHLers in best-on-best tournaments in the future, no one can say what will be the NHL-KHL ratio with other teams. The overall number of KHLers can actually increase despite of what happens in Finland if countries like the Czech Republic or Slovakia are forced to rely into Europeans more and more. Also, some lesser countries like Denmark, Norway or Belarus may end up producing players who are quite not NHL material but good enough for the KHL.

First paragraph got it right.

The last not so much, I was talking mostly about Finland but I think Czechs are fairly well off. Slovakia's the big question mark. When it comes to the lesser countries, Danes are more likely to have players in NHL than KHL, they don't seem to have inbetweeners. Norway I don't see making much improvement, people give their player development far too much credit based on few WC performances. Belarus might not have any NHL players in 2022 so who cares how many KHL players they'll have?

 

[FiLe]

The last not so much, I was talking mostly about Finland but I think Czechs are fairly well off. Slovakia's the big question mark. When it comes to the lesser countries, Danes are more likely to have players in NHL than KHL, they don't seem to have inbetweeners. Norway I don't see making much improvement, people give their player development far too much credit based on few WC performances. Belarus might not have any NHL players in 2022 so who cares how many KHL players they'll have?

The fact is we're both dealing with guesswork here. All we can both say with somewhat reliable certainty is that the ratio between KHLers and NHLers in the Finnish NT will likely grow in the NHL's favor in the coming years (at least on best-on-best that is). Let's keep in mind though that if KHL clubs are interested in signing players like Max Wärn and Jesse Niinimäki, they can find guys of similar level from Switzerland, Denmark and Norway for example. All they have to do is extend their scounting net a little further west.

Does that mean Norway and Denmark will suddenly develop as hockey countries? Hardly, just playing in the KHL does not make a 2nd rate player better in a night or two. But it WILL further boost the visibility of the KHL on international stage when these players are habitually picked into their respective NTs.

And I don't quite get that comment about Belarus. Even if they don't have NHLers anymore, but do have a solid crop of KHLers who can put them through into olympics for example, that will be another visibility boost for the league. Though probably not the most marketable one.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

The. NHL will do. What the players want because who is going to stop Crosby or ovechkin or stamkos from playing at the Olympics nobody absolutely nobody

 

[Yakushev72]

He didn't identify it because there wasn't any. What Jussi is saying is that the amount of Finns in the NHL is increasing not because the NHL GMs have suddenly decided that "we should get more Finns" but because Finland has had plenty of good classes of NHL-worthy players over past few years (and some more in the pipeline) which will increase the number of Finns in the NHL. This will, in turn, decrease the number of Finnish KHLers in future best-on-bests - and therefore, the visibility of the KHL on the international stage.

It has nothing to do with the KHL's development as a league, since the KHL can get better regardless. And I for my own part welcome that scenario. However, any player good enough for the NHL will continue to head that way. And Finland currently producing far more NHL-worthy players than they did, say, five years ago.

What Jussi shouldn't have done however is to predict the visibility of the KHL based on Finland alone. While it's likely that there will be less Finnish KHLers in best-on-best tournaments in the future, no one can say what will be the NHL-KHL ratio with other teams. The overall number of KHLers can actually increase despite of what happens in Finland if countries like the Czech Republic or Slovakia are forced to rely into Europeans more and more. Also, some lesser countries like Denmark, Norway or Belarus may end up producing players who are quite not NHL material but good enough for the KHL.

Well written post! I agree that Finland is producing more and more excellent players by the year, as witnessed by their WJC performances and at the OG and WC as well. I think you could argue that on a per capita basis, man for man, Finland could be the best hockey country in the World. But to really increase their representation in the NHL, they are going to have to displace North Americans who have an advantage competing for NHL jobs. A lot of the Finns in the KHL now are good enough to play in the NHL - just not good enough to command a high salary. They can get a high salary in the KHL, which is the only reason they go there.

But, you could also argue that the more Finns who go to the NHL, which is of course their first preference, the more will be going to the KHL. KHL clubs in Russia will try to sign Finns who might merit a higher salary in the NHL, but for one reason or another can't get it. The Russian-based KHL teams are investing a lot of money in youth hockey in the hope that the need to import players will decline over time. Until then, they will continue to offer foreign players more money than the NHL is willing to pay them.

 

[Yakushev72]

First paragraph got it right.

The last not so much, I was talking mostly about Finland but I think Czechs are fairly well off. Slovakia's the big question mark. When it comes to the lesser countries, Danes are more likely to have players in NHL than KHL, they don't seem to have inbetweeners. Norway I don't see making much improvement, people give their player development far too much credit based on few WC performances. Belarus might not have any NHL players in 2022 so who cares how many KHL players they'll have?

The Czech and Slovak programs are declining as rapidly as the Finnish program is improving. For those countries who are more impoverished than Scandinavia, developing hockey players as a cash crop is a formula for atrophy and death, because the NHL doesn't pay anything for taking the very best of both countries. Hockey has no source of revenue, the NHL picks it clean for all the best of their products, and as a result, their hockey programs are literally dying on the vine.

 

[FiLe]

Well written post! I agree that Finland is producing more and more excellent players by the year, as witnessed by their WJC performances and at the OG and WC as well. I think you could argue that on a per capita basis, man for man, Finland could be the best hockey country in the World. But to really increase their representation in the NHL, they are going to have to displace North Americans who have an advantage competing for NHL jobs. A lot of the Finns in the KHL now are good enough to play in the NHL - just not good enough to command a high salary. They can get a high salary in the KHL, which is the only reason they go there.

But, you could also argue that the more Finns who go to the NHL, which is of course their first preference, the more will be going to the KHL. KHL clubs in Russia will try to sign Finns who might merit a higher salary in the NHL, but for one reason or another can't get it. The Russian-based KHL teams are investing a lot of money in youth hockey in the hope that the need to import players will decline over time. Until then, they will continue to offer foreign players more money than the NHL is willing to pay them.

Agreed on both counts.

However, if Finland has enough players in the NHL to field a team, we will still predominantly rely on those players in best-on-best tournaments - even if the number of Finnish players in both leagues increases. There will always be some names outside the NHL who distinguish themselves through international play, but to see Finland ice a team like the one in Sochi which had 8 KHLers (plus two who played in Liiga but play for Jokerit now) is not highly likely in the future. Even if I consider the Finnish success in Sochi a decent sign that the gap between the NHL and KHL talent is a bit narrower than some North American posters here would say it is, in terms of pure international visibility the KHL still has to find other avenues than Finland if they wish to keep on showcasing their players in best-on-best.

No comment on whether they'll find any or not, as the future amount of NHLers from the Czech Republic for example is not my field of expertise.

 

[YMCMBYOLO]

Yes, and he gets to keep the money from Florida and Tampa, not from Kazakhstan.

And as I said, he only wants his pocket to get bigger, not to actually grow the game.

 

[Xokkeu]

And as I said, he only wants his pocket to get bigger, not to actually grow the game.

Well growing the game makes more money for the NHL in general. The question is whether the Olympics actually make more hockey players and fans.

Personally the evidence seems to be tilted towards no. The Olympics mostly serve as a tasty treat for already established hockey fans, but one that makes the NHL no money.

They go because the players want to go.

 

[YMCMBYOLO]

Well growing the game makes more money for the NHL in general. The question is whether the Olympics actually make more hockey players and fans.

Personally the evidence seems to be tilted towards no. The Olympics mostly serve as a tasty treat for already established hockey fans, but one that makes the NHL no money.

They go because the players want to go.

What evidence are you using to conclude that the Olympics don't maker more hockey players/fans?

 

[Xokkeu]

What evidence are you using to conclude that the Olympics don't maker more hockey players/fans?

Tv ratings internationally are not growing. The NHL isn't selling merchandise to new markets abroad. The NHL has some domestic improvements since the mid 1990s but associating them with the Olympics seems odd.

 

[Yakushev72]

Agreed on both counts.

However, if Finland has enough players in the NHL to field a team, we will still predominantly rely on those players in best-on-best tournaments - even if the number of Finnish players in both leagues increases. There will always be some names outside the NHL who distinguish themselves through international play, but to see Finland ice a team like the one in Sochi which had 8 KHLers (plus two who played in Liiga but play for Jokerit now) is not highly likely in the future. Even if I consider the Finnish success in Sochi a decent sign that the gap between the NHL and KHL talent is a bit narrower than some North American posters here would say it is, in terms of pure international visibility the KHL still has to find other avenues than Finland if they wish to keep on showcasing their players in best-on-best.

No comment on whether they'll find any or not, as the future amount of NHLers from the Czech Republic for example is not my field of expertise.

If the NHL in fact drops out of the Olympics, its debatable as to whether there is any "best on best" international hockey left. As a privately-owned summer invitational exhibition series, I don't think you can stage a legitimate championship. Especially if some countries who would be legitimate contenders can't participate for one reason or another.

 

[JackSlater]

If the NHL in fact drops out of the Olympics, its debatable as to whether there is any "best on best" international hockey left. As a privately-owned summer invitational exhibition series, I don't think you can stage a legitimate championship. Especially if some countries who would be legitimate contenders can't participate for one reason or another.

Well, the IIHF even called the Canada/World Cup tournaments best on best. If a league like the KHL can't participate then I don't think there is any doubt that the tournament wouldn't be a true best on best.

 

[WhalerTurnedBruin55]

If the KHL players are allowed to go and NHL players aren't... could we see some of the European players (doubtful, NA players, but maybe) defect for a season (or more) to play in the KHL and the Olympics?

 

[Yakushev72]

If the KHL players are allowed to go and NHL players aren't... could we see some of the European players (doubtful, NA players, but maybe) defect for a season (or more) to play in the KHL and the Olympics?

I think players like Malkin and Ovechkin would do what Kovalchuk did - close out their career in the KHL. They would have already completed more 10 years in the NHL, so they would have nothing left to prove there. They would be in their early 30's, and they would certainly have the option of doing just what Kovalchuk did. In Russia, they would pay almost no taxes and maximize their income.

 

[SanDogBrewin]

What a hypocritical thing to say by Bettman. Does he NOT know we have Phoenix and Florida (not Tampa) as NHL teams? Those teams are BY FAR not hotbeds for hockey and yet they have a team.

Bettman just uses his own agenda to get what he wants.

He doesn't really care about growing the game, only about making their own pockets bigger. He doesn't really care about the game in all honesty.

It's about the population of those cities and the huge TV markets in both. When those cities have good teams they fill their arenas. I know that doesn't matter when Canadians want some more teams up north but those markets are big money in revenue believe it or not. That's why he tries to keep owners in Florida and Phoenix.

The NHL Board of Governors are behind a lot of what Bettman does, it's not like he doesn't have to answer to them. Mainly Bettman has been a money making machine when it comes to TV contracts since he took over, he has filled the owners coffers big time.

In the end the NHL owners want that money flow to keep rising. Each new TV contract has blown away the previous one(s). It's the owners driving Bettman.

I think Bettman is a better commissioner than Roger Goodell. Aside from lying about what he sees and doesn't see, Goodell has taken more free games off the major US networks every year and is basically forcing NFL fans to buy Direct TV.

Bettman has given more free games back with the NHL Network and NBC Sports Network. I know he is hated up north but the owners really like him.

 

[YMCMBYOLO]

Tv ratings internationally are not growing. The NHL isn't selling merchandise to new markets abroad. The NHL has some domestic improvements since the mid 1990s but associating them with the Olympics seems odd.

I'm not sure where you're getting your information, I looked for TV ratings in Slovenia/Austria/Germany but couldn't find any good source.

 

[Yakushev72]

Well, the IIHF even called the Canada/World Cup tournaments best on best. If a league like the KHL can't participate then I don't think there is any doubt that the tournament wouldn't be a true best on best.

The IIHF actually promoted the Canada Cup in exchange for certain benefits, including the participation of NHL players in the World Championships. The IIHF has no jurisdiction in such matters, but they will do anything to line their pockets with money. I fully expect that the IIHF would offer some kind of endorsement for the World Cup in exchange for benefits, but the one thing they won't do is call it a World Championship.