Best Goalie Ever

[BM67]

When Goalie's World did their all-time goalie ranking, they said their biggest arguement against Sawchuck being #1 is that he was never a 1st All-star after Hall and Plante were in the NHL.

Sawchuck first 5 (full) years vs rest of career (15 years, from 55-56 on)
345 games 199 wins 57 shutouts 1.94 GAA 3 1st A-S 2 2nd A-S 3 Vezina 3 Cups
626 games 248 wins 46 shutouts 2.82 GAA 0 1st A-S 2 2nd A-S 1 Vezina 1 Cup

Plante first 5 (full) years vs rest of career (11 years, from 59-60 on)
331 games 187 wins 44 shutouts 2.02 GAA 2 1st A-S 2 2nd A-S 4 Vezina 5 Cups
506 games 250 wins 38 shutouts 2.61 GAA 1 1st A-S 2 2nd A-S 3 Vezina 1 Cup

Hall first 5 (full) years vs rest of career (11 years, from 60-61 on)
358 games 154 wins 31 shutouts 2.52 GAA 3 1st A-S 1 2nd A-S 0 Vezina 0 Cups
548 games 253 wins 53 shutouts 2.48 GAA 4 1st A-S 3 2nd A-S 3 Vezina 1 Cup

 

[pnep]

adjusted numbers...

GOALIE -- ADJ REG. SEAS. WINS
================
Roy Patrick -- 566
Benedict Clint -- 537
Sawchuk Terry -- 522

Thompson Tiny -- 499
Plante Jacques -- 498
Hall Glenn -- 472
Roach John -- 471
Broda Turk -- 461
Belfour Ed -- 450

Esposito Tony -- 439
Hainsworth George -- 439
Lumley Harry -- 427
Brodeur Martin -- 416
Joseph Curtis -- 410
Fuhr Grant -- 410
Vernon Mike -- 402

Brimsek Frank -- 390
Vanbiesbrouck John -- 387
Moog Andy -- 384
Worsley Lorne Gump -- 383
Connell Alex -- 376
Barrasso Tom -- 372
Vachon Rogie -- 372
Vezina Georges -- 359
Chabot Lorne -- 359

Kerr Dave -- 349
Burke Sean -- 317
Worters Roy -- 315
Osgood Chris -- 314
Smith Billy -- 313
Giacomin Ed -- 311
Richter Mike -- 311
Hextall Ron -- 310
Hasek Dominik -- 309
Durnan Bill -- 307
Liut Mike -- 301


GOALIE NAME -- ADJ PO WINS
======================
Roy Patrick -- 152
Plante Jacques -- 134
Broda Turk -- 121
Sawchuk Terry -- 107
Dryden Ken -- 106

Smith Billy -- 98
Fuhr Grant -- 94
Hall Glenn -- 90
Belfour Ed -- 88
Brodeur Martin -- 84
Benedict Clint -- 83
Vernon Mike -- 78
Bower Johnny -- 70
Cheevers Gerry -- 69
Moog Andy -- 69
Worsley Lorne Gump -- 67
Hainsworth George -- 65
Brimsek Frank -- 64
Joseph Curtis -- 62
Barrasso Tom -- 61
Lumley Harry -- 58
Esposito Tony -- 57
Vezina Georges -- 55
Thompson Tiny -- 54
Durnan Bill -- 54
Hasek Dominik -- 53
Parent Bernie -- 52

 

[StorminZ]

As much as it makes for great debate, it's really difficult to truly say who was the best of all time ... numbers, alone, do not tell the tale ... example, Grant Fuhr was a great money goalie for the Oilers, but his stats are far less compared to others from the 80's and 90's ... Dryden (my pick) dominated, but played all of 10 years in the NHL -- had he played longer, who knows how good his numbers might have been ... George 'the Chicoutimi Cucumber' Vezina, well, you don't get a trophy named after you for nuttin' ... the game has changed so much over the years ... goalies are some of the best athletes in today's game -- compare that to the appearance of a Gump Worsley or a Turk Broda of the 50's and 60's (not to be mean, but Gump looked like a little weeble compared to Patrick Roy).

And another thing ... if you didn't see them play, it's unlikely most fans would rate them above the stars of today's game ... my boys have no idea who Bernie Parent, Jacques Plante or Frank Brimsek are, so they'd not likely vote. We're biased by what we know and what we know is largely drawn from what we've experienced.

Ok, nuff ranting ... Ken Dryden is the best of all time! End of argument!

 

[Greenback]

Dryden's trophies merits consideration but he disqualifies himself in his book, The Game. In it he states that he was not required to win. The Habs were such a good team that he felt redundant (paraphrasing). He gives that as one of the reasons he retired.

My nod goes to Fuhr. No goalie in history has ever been put into the position as the favourite and still face 3 on 0's because Coffee et al felt they were better utilized below the offensive goal line.

Gretzky states that if he had to play a game with everything he owned on the line, Fuhr stands in the pipes.

Sawchuk is right there too. When comparing historical figures, stats can't tell the whole story. But when a montreal President (Smythe?) leaves a game early and is quoted as saying "when Mr.Sawchuk decides no more goals will be scored, no more will be scored", that has to be considered, especially in light of facing arguably the greatest team of all time in the 50's Habs.

Hasek gets the nod for giving an underdog a chance. Buffalo should have been dead last in the league for most of the '90's. Hasek gave them a chance to win every night. If it wasn't for a miscall (another discussion altogether), he would have had a cup in Buffalo.

Lastly, I want to echo someone's sentiments regarding Brodeur. I like him as a goalie but I never get the feeling that he will take control of a game. He is steady and what you expect, you will get. But nothing more. Great numbers? Yes. All time money goalie? Never. Not even close. I would also place Dryden in this category. They are the perfect goalies for great teams.

 

[joe_shannon_1983*]

Roy.

Here is my top 10:

1. Roy
2. Sawchuk
3. Plante
4. Hasek
5. Hall
6. Dryden
7. Durnan
8. Brodeur
9. Hainsworth
10. Brimsek

 

[trentmccleary]

Roy was not even the best goalie of his generation - that honour goes to Hasek.

Six Vezinas to Hasek while Roy was in the prime of his career, puts laid to any claim Roy would have as Number 1.

That's it for me right there.

 

[LannysStach]

re: the misleading stats . . .

Roy played his career during the last Stanley Cup period for the Montreal Canadiens, then went to the Forsberg, Sakic et al Colorado Rockies.

Hasek was a back-up on the very Black Hawks, then in um Buffalo, before his one season with a real team.

also, Hasek didn't play even a 20-game season until he was 27 or 28 years old.
Roy was already playing 50 games a year for the Habs at age 20.

it's funny -- people always try to use numbers to say why Roy was so great, but with Hasek it's usually describing having seen him play.

Fate dealt that Czech and that Quebcor very different hands in their hockey life. i wonder how Hasek would have done coming in with the Habs from age 20, or how Roy would have handled back-up under Mike Keenan in Chicago, exile in Buffalo, and not playing a full season till nearly age 30?

 

[#66]

re: the misleading stats . . .

Roy played his career during the last Stanley Cup period for the Montreal Canadiens, then went to the Forsberg, Sakic et al Colorado Rockies.

Hasek was a back-up on the very Black Hawks, then in um Buffalo, before his one season with a real team.

also, Hasek didn't play even a 20-game season until he was 27 or 28 years old.
Roy was already playing 50 games a year for the Habs at age 20.

it's funny -- people always try to use numbers to say why Roy was so great, but with Hasek it's usually describing having seen him play.

Fate dealt that Czech and that Quebcor very different hands in their hockey life. i wonder how Hasek would have done coming in with the Habs from age 20, or how Roy would have handled back-up under Mike Keenan in Chicago, exile in Buffalo, and not playing a full season till nearly age 30?

Very true but don't make it sound like Roy was playing for the 50's, 60's or 70's Habs. The Canadian teams that Roy won his cups with had no business doing so and IMO they did win because of his great play.

 

[justsomeguy]

Have given this question considerable thought in the 10 minutes or so it took me to scroll through. A previous poster said something about the results reflecting the demographics of the group. Probably right.

I'm pretty sure I'm not the first person to notice that most "All-Time" lists, tunes, films, TV shows, tend to be heavily weighted towars the recent past. I'm constantly amazed at how many of the greatest rock songs of all time are less than five years old.

Here goes -

Sawchuck - Invented the crouch, or if he didn't invent it, was one of the very first to have success with it. Beset by personal demon, it's interesting to speculate how good he might have been if he was a happier fellow away from the rink.
Plante - Not only for the mask and the stats but for proving that a goaltender didn't have to play the position as if he was tied to the crossbar. The NHL recently decided to try to put roving goalies back in the crease. About the only rule change I'm not at all keen on.
Hall - First major butterfly guy.
Worsley - Probably the most entertaining guy I've ever seen between the pipes. Style-wise, he didn't do anything right except stop the puck.
Brodeur - The best of the current generation. Pretty sure his stature will do nothing but grow and in a couple decades might well be touted as the best of all time.Also a scoring threat.

 

[LannysStach]

i've come to the conclusion i cannot judge a goalie i haven't seen play in his prime. all i can do is read about sawchuck and his predicessors. even goalies i've seen like plante and giacomin and dryden and tony o -- it's kind of hard now to picture their play vs. the goalies i've been watching the last few years.
how did Tony O get 15 shut-outs with those little tiny pads?
how did Plante, Hall & Bower even freakin Survive playing into their 40s?!

what is "the best goalie ever" anyway?
most wins? fastest reflexes? most disciplined? most inovative? best team leader? most cups? best in the playoffs? in game 7s? most veznas? best over a 20 year period? over a ten year stretch? with a facemask? without?

we all have our favorites who are close to our heart for some reason.
then there's the ones we've read about, and the ones we've seen play.

to my eyes, the best two goaltenders at stopping pucks at this moment are Hasek and Kiprusoff. but there sure are a lot of good ones in the game right now -- definitely more than there's ever been. (3 excellent minders in the wings: Miller in buffalo, Racine in toronto, and Fleury in pitts.) we're in a real golden period for goalies, and i'm glad they made the pads smaller. this is gonna be a great puckin year!