Best Goalie Ever
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McGuillicuddy
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- Sep 6, 2005
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I have to side with a poster above. If I had one game for all the marbles, I'd want Grant Fuhr (in his prime of course) in my goal. Fuhr is obviously not as decorated as some of those choices, but when it was all on the line it seemed there were none better.
brianscot
Registered User
As i type this, Dryden and Plante have a cumulative three votes between them.
This is the "history of hockey"?
Hasek as the best goalie is analogous to thinking Jagr is better than Gordie Howe.
Did Billy Smith somehow get wiped from history too?
This is the "history of hockey"?
Hasek as the best goalie is analogous to thinking Jagr is better than Gordie Howe.
Did Billy Smith somehow get wiped from history too?
Chili
En boca cerrada no entran moscas
- Jun 10, 2004
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brianscot said:
These type polls show the weakness of asking opinions on players we never saw play.
I never saw George Hainsworth but I know he deserves more respect than the cumulative knowledge of this board is able to give him. I only saw Jacques Plante after his comeback, I remember an older and very effective goaler with a great technique (for that era).
Billy Smith didn't win alot of awards but once the playoffs started he turned it up a notch.
Sadly I think these polls become alot about popularity...and I am guilty of that at times too.
RangerBlues
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FacelessButcher
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It's funny a lot of people consider Glen Hall the best but he has only one vote of 94 so far, and Patrik Roy is running away with it while Hasek pulls in a definitive second. I think this poll is much better indicator of the age demographic of HF boards then the true best goalie.
It is difficult to rate all-time players due to the difference in eras and this is particularly true of goaltenders.Chili said:
In so far as games played, particularly playoff games, Roy had a chance to play more than goalies of earlier eras where there were two rounds until expansion in 1967. The more games you play the more wins are possible so winning % and shutouts IMHO are a better gauge. Also you have to consider the quality of the team in front of the goalie.
As I said differing eras make it difficult to pick. IMHO Roy may not even be the best goalie of his era, let alone all-time.
Patrick Roy's stats ("#") = all-time record:
Reg season- GP 1029(1), W 551(1); Win% .618(80; GAA 2.54 (25); SO 66(3)
Playoffs- GP 247(1), W .611 (3) ; Win% .616(3) GAA 2.30(13); SO 23(1)
I think any consideration of top goaltenders would have to include the following. (I have watched all but Turk Broda):
Turk Broda - 5 Stanley Cups with the Leafs, often considered the best clutch goaltender of all time.
Reg Season- GP 629, W 250; Win%.571 GAA 2.53; SO 62
Playoff -GP 101, W 60; Win% .594 GAA 1.98; SO 13
Ken Dryden- 6 Cups in 8 years
Reg Season- GP 397, W 258; Win% .798; GAA 2.24; SO 46
Playoff -GP 112, W 80; Win% .714 GAA 2.40; SO 10
Glenn Hall- 502 CONSECUTIVE STARTS
Reg Season- GP 906; W 407; Win%.548; GAA 2.51; SO 84
Playoff -GP 115, W 49; Win%.426; GAA 2.79; SO 6
Dominik Hasek- 6 Vezina trophies and 2 Harts, 1 Stanley Cup and Olympic Gold. Recorded 6 shutouts in one post season.
Reg Season- GP 581, W 288; Win%.574; GAA 2.23; SO 61
Playoff -GP 97, W 53; Win%.546; GAA 2.03; SO 6
Jacques Plante- 6 Stanley Cups, 1 Hart, 7 Vezinas
BTW Clint Benedict not Plante was the first goaltender in hockey history to don a facemask in a National Hockey League game, February 20, 1930.
Reg Season- GP 837, W 434; Win%.628; GAA 2.38; SO 82
Playoff -GP 112, W 71; Win%.634; GAA 2.16; SO 14
Terry Sawchuk- 2nd in GP and Wins - 103 SHUTOUTS
Reg Season- GP 971, W 447; Win% . GAA 2.52; SO 103
Playoff -GP 106, W ; Win% . GAA 2.55; SO 12
I have not taken into consideration earlier era goalies like Georges Vezina, George Hainsworth or Bill Durnan nor have I included goalies still playing such as Martin Brodeur.
Also consider where you place the best goalie who never played in the NHL - Vladislav Tretiak.
As I noted IMHO Roy is not even the best goalie of his era. I give "The Dominator" the nod over St. Patty. It may well turn out that Brodeur will surpass Roy - I rank them about even right now.
Here is my list:
1. Terry Sawchuk
2. Jacques Plante
3. Ken Dryden
4. Dominik Hasek
5. Glenn Hall
6. Turk Broda
7. Patrick Roy/Martin Brodeur
YMMV.
BM67
Registered User
NYIsles1 said:
Haven't got the sv% numbers but here's my comparison of RS vs PO W% and GAA from the All-time draft:
NHL career stats of drafted goalies comparing regular season to playoffs.
Player - RSGP - POGP - RSW - POW - RSW% - POW% - Dif - RSGAA - POGAA - Dif – Cups
Sawchuck - 972 _ 106 _ 446 _ 54 _ .560 _ .529 _ -.031 _ 2.51 _ 2.54 _ +.03 _ 4
Richter - 666 _ 76 _ 301 _ 41 _ .534 _ .554 _ +.020 _ 2.89 _ 2.68 _ -.21 _ 1
McLean – 612 _ 68 _ 245 _ 34 _ .485 _ .500 _ +.015 _ 3.26 _ 2.84 _ -.42 _ 0
Hall - 906 _ 115 _ 407 _ 49 _ .545 _ .430 _ -.115 _ 2.49 _ 2.78 _ +.29 _ 1
Fuhr - 868 _ 150 _ 403 _ 92 _ .567 _ .648 _ +.081 _ 3.38 _ 2.92 _ -.46 _ 4/5
Osgood – 568 _ 87 _ 305 _ 45 _ .617 _ .549 _ -.068 _ 2.44 _ 2.24 _ -.20 _ 2
Belfour - 856 _ 161 _ 435 _ 88 _ .593 _ .564 _ -.029 _ 2.43 _ 2.17 _ -.26 _ 1
Esposito - 886 _ 99 _ 423 _ 45 _ .566 _ .459 _ -.107 _ 2.92 _ 3.07 _ +.15 _ 0/1
Connell – 417 _ 21 _ 193 _ 8 _ .544 _ .571 _ +.027 _ 1.91 _ 1.19 _ -.72 _ 2
Brimsek – 514 _ 68 _ 252 _ 32 _ .568 _ .471 _ -.097 _ 2.70 _ 2.54 _ -.16 _ 2
Worsley – 861 _ 70 _ 335 _ 40 _ .490 _ .606 _ +.116 _ 2.88 _ 2.78 _ -.10 _ 4
Worters - 484 _ 11 _ 171 _ 3 _ .440 _ .364 _ -.076 _ 2.27 _ 2.09 _ -.18 _ 0
Khabibulin – 476 _ 57 _ 209 _ 31 _ .524 _ .554 _ +.030 _ 2.61 _ 2.23 _ -.38 _ 1
Kolzig – 544 _ 45 _ 234 _ 20 _ .514 _ .455 _ -.059 _ 2.56 _ 2.14 _ -.42 _ 0
Plante - 837 _ 112 _ 435 _ 71 _ .614 _ .664 _ +.050 _ 2.38 _ 2.14 _ -.24 _ 6
Bower - 552 _ 74 _ 250 _ 35 _ .551 _ .507 _ -.044 _ 2.51 _ 2.47 _ -.04 _ 4
Gardiner – 316 _ 21 _ 112 _ 12 _ .437 _ .643 _ +.206 _ 2.02 _ 1.43 _ -.59 _ 1
Parent - 608 _ 71 _ 271 _ 38 _ .562 _ .535 _ -.027 _ 2.55 _ 2.43 _ -.12 _ 2
Vachon – 795 _ 48 _ 355 _ 23 _ .541 _ .500 _ -.041 _ 2.99 _ 2.77 _ -.22 _ 3
Roy - 1029 _ 247 _ 551 _ 151 _ .618 _ .616 _ -.002 _ 2.54 _ 2.30 _ -.24 _ 4
Giacomin – 610 _ 65 _ 289 _ 29 _ .568 _ .453 _ -.115 _ 2.82 _ 2.81 _ -.01 _ 0
Moog – 713 _ 132 _ 372 _ 68 _ .622 _ .544 _ -.078 _ 3.13 _3.04 _ -.09 _ 3
Vernon - 781 _ 138 _ 385 _ 77 _ .575 _ .579 _ +.004 _ 2.98 _ 2.68 _ -.30 _ 2
Thompson - 553 _ 44 _ 284 _ 20 _ .581 _ .455 _ -.126 _ 2.08 _ 1.88 _ -.20 _ 1
Kerr – 427 _ 40 _ 203 _ 18 _ .565 _ .488 _ -.077 _ 2.15 _1.74 _ -.41 _ 1
Dryden - 397 _ 112 _ 258 _ 80 _ .758 _ .714 _ -.044 _ 2.24 _ 2.40 _ +.16 _ 6
Hasek - 595 _ 97 _ 296 _ 53 _ .591 _ .576 _ -.015 _ 2.23 _ 2.03 _ -.20 _ 1
Broda - 629 _ 101 _ 302 _ 60 _ .562 _ .606 _ +.044 _ 2.53 _ 1.98 _ -.55 _ 5
Joseph – 798 _ 131 _ 396 _ 62 _ .569 _ .484 _ -.085 _ 2.75 _ 2.44 _ -.31 _ 0
Brodeur - 740 _ 144 _ 403 _ 84 _ .628 _ .583 _ -.045 _ 2.17 _ 1.87 _ -.30 _ 3
Chabot – 411 _ 37 _ 201 _ 13 _ .564 _ .444 _ -.120 _ 2.04 _ 1.54 _ -.50 _ 2
Lumley – 804 _ 76 _ 330 _ 29 _ .501 _ .382 _ -.119 _ 2.76 _ 2.50 _ -.26 _ 1
Durnan - 383 _ 45 _ 208 _ 27 _ .626 _ .600 _ -.026 _ 2.36 _ 2.07 _ -.29 _ 2
Benedict* – 3620 _ 48 _ 191 _ 26 _ .568 _ .598 _ +.030 _ 2.30 _ 1.80 _ -.50 _ 4
Barrasso – 777 _ 119 _ 369 _ 61 _ .563 _ .530 _ -.033 _ 3.24 _ 3.01 _ -.23 _ 2
Smith - 680 _ 132 _ 305 _ 88 _ .556 _ .710 _ +.154 _ 3.17 _ 2.73 _ -.44 _ 4
Cheevers - 418 _ 88 _ 230 _ 53 _ .658 _ .609 _ -.059 _ 2.89 _ 2.69 _ -.20 _ 2
Vanbiesbrouck – 882 _ 71 _ 374 _ 28 _ .517 _ .424 _ -.093 _ 2.98 _ 2.68 _ -.30 _ 0
Lindbergh - 157 _ 23 _ 87 _ 12 _ .626 _ .545 _ -.81 _ 3.30 _ 3.11 _ -.19 _ 0
Hainsworth - 465 _ 52 _ 246 _ 22 _ .609 _ .471 _ -.138 _ 1.93 _ 1.93 _ 0 _ 2
Vezina* - 190 _ 26 _ 103 _ 16 _ .558 _ .654 _ +.096 _ 3.28 _ 2.78 _ -.50 _ 1(2**)
*Includes Stanley Cup Playoff Rounds in Playoff totals
** Won Cup while playing in NHA
Fuhr and Esposito have their names on the Cup for a year they didn't play in the playoffs.
Player – GAADif
1. Connell -.72
2. Gardiner -.59
3. Broda -.55
4. Benedict -.50
4. Chabot -.50
4. Vezina -.50
7. Fuhr -.46
8. Smith -.44
9. McLean -.42
9. Kolzig -.42
11. Kerr -.41
12. Khabibulin -.38
13. Joseph -.31
14. Brodeur -.30
14. Vanbiesbrouck -.30
14. Vernon -.30
17. Durnan -.29
18. Belfour -.26
18. Lumley -.26
20. Plante -.24
20. Roy -.24
22. Barrasso -.23
23. Vachon -.22
24. Richter -.21
25. Cheevers -.20
25. Hasek -.20
25. Osgood -.20
25. Thompson -.20
29. Lindbergh -.19
30. Worters -.18
31. Brimsek -.16
32. Parent -.12
33. Worsley -.10
34. Moog -.09
35. Bower -.04
36. Giacomin -.01
37. Hainsworth 0
38. Sawchuk +.03
39. Esposito +.15
40. Dryden +.16
41. Hall +.29
Player - W%Dif
1. Gardiner +.206
2. Smith +.154
3. Worsley +.116
4. Vezina +.096
5. Fuhr +.081
6. Plante +.050
7. Broda +.044
8. Benedict +.030
8. Khabibulin +.030
10. Connell +.027
11. Richter +.020
12. McLean +.015
13. Vernon +.004
14. Roy -.002
15. Hasek -.015
16. Durnan -.026
17. Parent -.027
18. Belfour -.029
19. Sawchuk -.031
20. Barrasso -.033
21. Vachon -.041
22. Bower -.044
22. Dryden -.044
24. Brodeur -.045
25. Cheevers -.059
25. Kolzig -.059
27. Osgood -.068
28. Worters -.076
29. Kerr -.077
30. Moog -.078
31. Lindbergh -.081
32. Joseph -.085
33. Vanbiesbrouck -.093
34. Brimsek -.097
35. Esposito -.107
36. Giacomin -.115
37. Hall -.115
38. Lumley -.119
39. Chabot -.120
40. Thompson -.126
41. Hainsworth -.138
I agree with KOVALEV10 and Russian_fanatic. Sawchuk, Hall, Plante, Roy and Hasek are tied for no.1 IMO. And maybe Tretiak and Dryden. And what about Georges Vezina?
Maybe not no. 1, but top 10?
Maybe not no. 1, but top 10?
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I'm only voting for goalies where I've seen them in action. So Roy's the only option. You just got the feeling any time Patrick cold win any game. Brodeur is great truely, but I just never feel that way about him. I would've loved to see Dryden and the older ones in action.
mazmin said:
I'm sure it's because they have no basis to draw on. No doubt Sawchuk and Tretiak were great, we know this because of the way people talk about them, but have no basis to know just how great. I never saw Richard Nixon, so I have no way of knowing how he was as a president. I can read articles/books about him, but that still gives me not really a good idea of what he was like, unless I actually was living to see him. So that's the reason why polls inevitable favor recent history. Also internet users are mostly younger people, since the internet is still a pretty new concept. Internet message boards are overwhelmingly younger people, so of course polls will reflect that. I'd guess that years from now that will change because today's internet users will be older, but will still be used to the internet (unlike older people currently) unless of course technology changes dramatically to the point of the next internet technology looks nothing like today's technology.
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If it were one game, I'd put Hasek in his prime in net. No one could shut down a team like Hasek did. For those who doubt, check check the 98 olympics. Hasek vs Team Canada. Shootout.
Those are really interesting stats. Any chance you could give it one more go with sv% for RS, PO and diff? I'd be interested in seeing that too.BM67 said:
BM67
Registered User
I could do sv% for some of the goalies, but the NHL only officially kept the stat from 82-83, and there are only unofficial stats going back to the 50's, and they are spotty for most of the 70's.Seph said:
Here are a few from The Hockey Compendium
Player - RSsv% - POsv% - DIF
Plante - .918 - .922 - +.004
Hall - .917 - .913 - -.004
Sawchuck - .910 - .914 - +.004
Bower - .921 - .923 - +.002
Worsley - .912 - .911 - -.001
Vanbiesbrouck - .898 - .915 - +.017
Moog - .891 - .890 - -.001
Fuhr - .886 - .898 - +.012
Smith - .886 - .905 - +.019
Vernon - .889 - .896 - +.007
McGuillicuddy
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- Sep 6, 2005
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mdoak said:
Hasek wasn't actually stellar during the game, and the shootout is a whole other can of worms. And Ray frickin' Bourque?! Don't get me started...
Kidding aside, I say the same thing about Grant Fuhr. Game 2. Canada Cup '87 Final.
Brodeur may be considered the best when all is said and done, but Terry Sawchuk is the best right now.
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