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[LeafsNation75]

Oh now it’s ok to leave out the jump from 54 to 81 the year Eichel started?

Great so they improved in Eichel's rookie season and got a lot worse after that.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

According to Sabres fans on here and fans of other teams with no connection to them, they added Rasmus Dalhin who some consider to be a generational defenseman.

Incorrect. Some consider that he will become a generational defenseman. No one considers him one yet.

 

[IPS]

That’s correct the added no other substantial rookies that year and Eichel improved the team 27 points, more points that all 3 of the leafs rookies were able to improve their team the next year.

Sabres intentional tank year doesn't get taken seriously by anybody. I've referenced the only thing that matters - Matthews took his team from dead last to playoffs. The best Eichel could do was dead last to 23rd overall. Matthews is superior at elevating his team / teammates, end of story.

Great so they improved in Eichel's rookie season and got a lot worse after that.

Correct. They sunk yet again to another dead last finish, further exposing Eichel's inability to elevate his team.

 

[Dache]

Great so they improved in Eichel's rookie season and got a lot worse after that.

Much like Matthews leafs.

 

[LeafsNation75]

He was added in 2015-16? Or we’re just talking nonsense now?

You asked what other rookie superstars were added to the Sabres and I said it was Rasmus Dalhin, because according to everyone on here he's already reached that level based on his draft hype. So are you saying Dalhin is not a superstar player?

 

[Dache]

Sabres intentional tank year doesn't get taken seriously by anybody. I've referenced the only thing that matters - Matthews took his team from dead last to playoffs. The best Eichel could do was dead last to 23rd overall. Matthews is superior at elevating his team / teammates, end of story.

No you mentioned the pt jump from the year before Matthews to the year after, claiming Eichel has done nothing similar, then when shown he has except better you change the criteria

 

[Dache]

You asked what other rookie superstars were added to the Sabres and I said it was Rasmus Dalhin, because according to everyone on here he's already reached that level based on his draft hype. So are you saying Dalhin is not a superstar player?

No I asked what other rookie superstars were added to the team that year that can be attributed to the 27 pt increase for the sabres like the leafs had with Marner and Nylander helping Matthews.

 

[IPS]

No you mentioned the pt jump from the year before Matthews to the year after, claiming Eichel has done nothing similar, then when shown he has except better you change the criteria

Seems like I'm doing Eichel a favor by "switching criteria" - his team had another dead last finish in 2018. Leafs continued to improve under Matthews that year going from 95 points to 105.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Much like Matthews leafs.

Leafs overall record with Matthews since his rookie season.

2016-17: 14th
2017-18: 7th
2018-19: 7th
2019-20: 8th

Where exactly is that supposed to be a bad record for them?

 

[Dache]

Seems like I'm doing Eichel a favor by "switching criteria" - his team had another dead last finish in 2018. Leafs continued to improve under Matthews that year going from 95 points to 105.

What did Matthews do after that, with the biggest free agent C added to help him?

 

[Dache]

Leafs overall record with Matthews since his rookie season.

2016-17: 14th
2017-18: 7th
2018-19: 7th
2019-20: 8th

Where exactly is that supposed to be a bad record for them?

Why are you claiming I’m saying things I didn’t. Where is the improvement in your post? 7-7-8 doesn’t look too good. And don’t forget the added Tavares too and Marner went from 60-94 pts.

 

[Dache]

Seems like I'm doing Eichel a favor by "switching criteria" - his team had another dead last finish in 2018. Leafs continued to improve under Matthews that year going from 95 points to 105.

How is that doing Eichel a favor. I think your flip flopping has you confused.

 

[Dache]

So annoying having discussions like this. They’re both great players and you can’t go wrong with either one. But when certain posters start getting upset because someone chooses anyone other than their teams player and ruins all real discussions there’s not much else to do besides make the same type of arguments they make

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

So annoying having discussions like this. They’re both great players and you can’t go wrong with either one. But when certain posters start getting upset because someone chooses anyone other than their teams player and ruins all real discussions there’s not much else to do besides make the same type of arguments they make

Why couldn't you just ignore arguments you don't like rather than make them yourself?

 

[Cor]

Keep digging this hole. Leafs fans speak their opinions in terms of facts, and Eichel's percentage keeps going up. Leafs fans lash out on others, while their player they can't accept might be worse than another player, loses a poll on the internet.

Hi friend.

As I said, I respect your opinion. It’s a shame you do not respect mine. I wish there was more respect on this site.

You said Eichel is a more well rounded player, which unfortunately is something that can be measured, and is in fact, objectively wrong.

Its up to an individual to decide whether Eichel’s playmaking numbers are enough to warrant being considered the better player. I never commented on that.

however;
Goal scoring: Matthews
Assist/playmaking: Eichel
Faceoffs: Matthews
Physicality: Wash (hits and block shots are essentially the same)
Defensive metrics: Wash (slight edge to Matthews, and a bigger edge to Matthews when it comes to giveaways vs takeaway ratio, but for the benefit of the doubt, I’ll call it a wash).
Both players tend to elevate any line mates they have.

I’m terms of a well rounded sense, Matthews has an edge in more categories, but let’s low ball Matthews and at worse, they are similar with Matthews being the better goal scorer and faceoff man, while Eichel is the better playmaker.

I never said you can’t say Eichel is the better player. I just said that Eichel being more “well rounded” is false and there’s an argument that the opposite is true.

I hope that explains further. As I said, I respect your opinion, and you’re allowed to have it, just like some people think the world is flat or that COVID is a hoax

 

[Uncle Scrooge]

Leafs overall record with Matthews since his rookie season.

2019-20: 8th

Where exactly is that supposed to be a bad record for them?

Leafs were 13th before covid.

 

[Dache]

Why couldn't you just ignore arguments you don't like rather than make them yourself?

Why can’t they? I get more of those people quoting me than me quoting them. Or better yet, why can’t they just be ok with someone possibly not having the same opinion as them and then we’d be able to have real hockey discussion like we’re supposed to on here without thread after thread being closed

 

[Rhaegar Targaryen]

Matthews is a better goal scorer but a guy like Eichel can take over a game in more ways. And I’d rather have my centres setting up others and making everyone around them better than just scoring goals

 

[Holymakinaw]

however;
Goal scoring: Matthews
Assist/playmaking: Eichel
Faceoffs: Matthews
Physicality: Wash (hits and block shots are essentially the same)
Defensive metrics: Wash (slight edge to Matthews, and a bigger edge to Matthews when it comes to giveaways vs takeaway ratio, but for the benefit of the doubt, I’ll call it a wash).
Both players tend to elevate any line mates they have.

This is all true, of course.

In REAL LIFE, Matthews is ahead of Eichel in most metrics you can use to evaluate a player. But on this website, Eichel "wins". LOL.

There is a reason that Matthews is listed ahead of Eichel in EVERY list of players, by any legit hockey mind out there. But you know.........HF, so.........whatever.

 

[Dache]

This is all true, of course.

In REAL LIFE, Matthews is ahead of Eichel in most metrics you can use to evaluate a player. But on this website, Eichel "wins". LOL.

There is a reason that Matthews is listed ahead of Eichel in EVERY list of players, by any legit hockey mind out there. But you know.........HF, so.........whatever.

There’s this article
By the Numbers: Jack Eichel vs. Auston Matthews - TSN.ca
I can skip to the end for you, the last line is
“Matthews has been good this season, but Eichel has been even better”

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Hi friend.

As I said, I respect your opinion. It’s a shame you do not respect mine. I wish there was more respect on this site.

You said Eichel is a more well rounded player, which unfortunately is something that can be measured, and is in fact, objectively wrong.

Its up to an individual to decide whether Eichel’s playmaking numbers are enough to warrant being considered the better player. I never commented on that.

however;
Goal scoring: Matthews
Assist/playmaking: Eichel
Faceoffs: Matthews
Physicality: Wash (hits and block shots are essentially the same)
Defensive metrics: Wash (slight edge to Matthews, and a bigger edge to Matthews when it comes to giveaways vs takeaway ratio, but for the benefit of the doubt, I’ll call it a wash).
Both players tend to elevate any line mates they have.

I’m terms of a well rounded sense, Matthews has an edge in more categories, but let’s low ball Matthews and at worse, they are similar with Matthews being the better goal scorer and faceoff man, while Eichel is the better playmaker.

I never said you can’t say Eichel is the better player. I just said that Eichel being more “well rounded” is false and there’s an argument that the opposite is true.

I hope that explains further. As I said, I respect your opinion, and you’re allowed to have it, just like some people think the world is flat or that COVID is a hoax

You can hide behind your supposed respect, but you showed me no respect. And you also will try to hide behind some supposed verbiage in my post that you disagree with that you are actually using to say everyone who voted for Eichel is wrong about. We both know you said my opinion is objectively wrong because I voiced something you didn't like. Most people vote on the full picture, and not one aspect. If Eichel was more well-rounded than Matthews, that would be a damaging blow for people like you that feel the need to preserve Matthews reputation. If three percent of the votes went to Eichel, maybe, but over 50% of the respondents here disagree with you. You either don't know what objectively means or don't want to accept what objectively would be.

 

[Holymakinaw]

There’s this article
By the Numbers: Jack Eichel vs. Auston Matthews - TSN.ca
I can skip to the end for you, the last line is
“Matthews has been good this season, but Eichel has been even better”

In their last four seasons.......

Goals
Matthews 158, Eichel 113

Assists
Matthews 127, Eichel 168

Points
Matthews 285, Eichel 281

Faceoff %
Matthews 51.7%, Eichel 42.1%

Blocks
Matthews 242, Eichel 163

Takeaways
Matthews 270, Eichel 158

Giveaways
Matthews 218, Eichel 250

Matthews wins pretty much everywhere(except HF) and we all know it.

 

[Fatass]

Why are you claiming I’m saying things I didn’t. Where is the improvement in your post? 7-7-8 doesn’t look too good. And don’t forget the added Tavares too and Marner went from 60-94 pts.

Doesn’t having
Tavares help Matthews, because Tavares takes harder minutes and matchups, which frees up AM for a more offensively minded role?
Eichel is taking on everything.
Matthews is at almost 70% o zone starts with only about 30% d zone.
Tavares is at 64% d zone starts, so he’s (a great player) taking really hard minutes from AM

Eichel is at 58% o zone and 42% d zone.
And who is the Sabre centre that takes that burden of playing the hard minutes, like Tavares does for Matthews?

 

[All Mod Cons]

In their last four seasons.......

Goals
Matthews 158, Eichel 113

Assists
Matthews 127, Eichel 168

Points
Matthews 285, Eichel 281

Faceoff %
Matthews 51.7%, Eichel 42.1%

Blocks
Matthews 242, Eichel 163

Takeaways
Matthews 270, Eichel 158

Giveaways
Matthews 218, Eichel 250

Matthews wins pretty much everywhere(except HF) and we all know it.

To me, those stats clearly show Eichel is better.

 

[Dache]

In their last four seasons.......

Goals
Matthews 158, Eichel 113

Assists
Matthews 127, Eichel 168

Points
Matthews 285, Eichel 281

Faceoff %
Matthews 51.7%, Eichel 42.1%

Blocks
Matthews 242, Eichel 163

Takeaways
Matthews 270, Eichel 158

Giveaways
Matthews 218, Eichel 250

Matthews wins pretty much everywhere(except HF) and we all know it.

You said no one outside of here picks Eichel first and I showed you otherwise. That’s all