Rumor: Berggren recently rejected Red Wings offer, Calgary and Montreal expressing interest - David Pagnotta

[heyfolks]

He wasn't. But if you really want to get depressed look at the Wings draft picks during the Holland years and glance over at the number of NHL games most of them have played (or not player, more accurately).

The number that have cracked 3 seasons worth of games in the NHL is depressingly low.

List of all the Detroit Red Wings Draft Picks | Hockey-Reference.com

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100% agree. The scouting/draft was deplorable. Holland's leadership created a hole bigger than needed to exist.

A little context here:

Looking at the standings, had Detroit gone full seller at the deadline, they still were not sinking past any of the bottom 5-6 teams. Realistically, about the highest draft slot they could have expected was 8th or 9th.

So they'd be HOPING to land another Kasper or Danielson kinda player.

Berggren is the level of asset that doesn't really move you any higher in the top ten. Maybe one slot if you find a team who likes two prospects equally and would take the added player to flip picks.

So if absolutely everything clicks for the Perpetual Tank Crowd, Detroit is sitting at 7 overall.

If it's that versus fighting for a playoff spot right to the very end, I'll take the chance at a playoff spot.

A very good observation.

Not sure how any of this has turned into a bagging on Bergy session. He's paid his dues, his contract is up, he is 23 and wants a shot at the NHL. It all seems pretty reasonable. I believe he has the skill to play in the League. He clearly believes that as well. Should Detroit not be able to offer it to him, I'd send him back to GR and tell him to PAD HIS STATS but only via leading the Griffins to a deep run. Shake his hand, be a pro, and deal him with well wishes.

 

[schuelma24]

 

[RedWingzz]

pretty ridiculous we didnt give this guy an actual chance to make it

 

[jaster]

To the roller rink with you!

 

[Gniwder]

pretty ridiculous we didnt give this guy an actual chance to make it

Pretty sad when you can't beat out Czarnik for ice time.

Burger and AlJo have to go through waivers next season, Burger will get claimed if he's not traded.

 

[RedWingzz]

Pretty sad when you can't beat out Czarnik for ice time.

Burger and AlJo have to go through waivers next season, Burger will get claimed if he's not traded.

we'll get something for him, he has value

at the draft I bet he goes for a 2nd or something like that

 

[Twinger]

whether you think hes able to make the NHL or not its pretty disappointing that most of our roster is in their prime years and we're a bubble team

 

[14ari13]

whether you think hes able to make the NHL or not its pretty disappointing that most of our roster is in their prime years and we're a bubble team

Who is in their prime?
Larkin? DeBrincat?

 

[FissionFire]

I think only really Larkin, DeBrincat, Sprong, Walman, and Fabbri would be considered in their prime. Maybe Maata, Copp, and Fischer too. Most everyone else is either 24 and younger (Seider, Raymond, Ras, Veleno) or 30+ (literally everyone else).

 

[Dotter]

pretty ridiculous we didnt give this guy an actual chance to make it

They did and he proved to be a liability. Wings are trying to make the playoffs, not pamper some underachiever's hurt feelings.

You act like this is some kind of weird personal vendetta towards him.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

They did and he proved to be a liability. Wings are trying to make the playoffs, not pamper some underachiever's hurt feelings.

You act like this is some kind of weird personal vendetta towards him.

It kinda feels like some kind of weird personal vendetta. He has the same flaws as Sprong, about the same level of offense, but they just seem to like Sprong better.

My personal suspicion is that Lalonde is not a fan, and that has tied Yzerman's hands.

 

[Dotter]

It kinda feels like some kind of weird personal vendetta.

You'd have a point if Berggren was a good player who can manage a 200ft game and wasn't soft as a powder-puff.

He needs sheltered. They're too busy sheltering [Mr. Healthy Scratch] Sprong. Wings are already soft enough to be adding the epitome of soft, Jonatan Berggren.

I hope he returns something nice in a trade. Even if it is a 2nd rounder that Yzerman uses to select a bottom player with toughness. Berggren is redundant.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

You'd have a point if Berggren was a good player who can manage a 200ft game and wasn't soft as a powder-puff.

He needs sheltered. They're too busy sheltering [Mr. Healthy Scratch] Sprong. Wings are already soft enough to be adding the epitome of soft, Jonatan Berggren.

I hope he returns something nice in a trade. Even if it is a 2nd rounder that Yzerman uses to select a bottom player with toughness. Berggren is redundant.

Does this team really need more toughness? Maybe it's just me. Berggren brings depth scoring, which I value a lot more. Sure, you have to manage his minutes, but that happens with tons of guys.

As an aside, it seems like matchups are a dying art. Guys like Lalonde just want to roll their 4 lines and never have to pay attention. Heaven forbid you have to figure out how to use an offense first winger on the 4th line.

 

[14ari13]

I think only really Larkin, DeBrincat, Sprong, Walman, and Fabbri would be considered in their prime. Maybe Maata, Copp, and Fischer too. Most everyone else is either 24 and younger (Seider, Raymond, Ras, Veleno) or 30+ (literally everyone else).

I was thinking of core/star players.
Sprong was scratched for the 2nd game, Fabbri should not be in the lineup. Walman won't be top 4 when we become good.

You'd have a point if Berggren was a good player who can manage a 200ft game and wasn't soft as a powder-puff.

He needs sheltered. They're too busy sheltering [Mr. Healthy Scratch] Sprong. Wings are already soft enough to be adding the epitome of soft, Jonatan Berggren.

I hope he returns something nice in a trade. Even if it is a 2nd rounder that Yzerman uses to select a bottom player with toughness. Berggren is redundant.

They are already sheltering Kane, Raymond, DeBrincat. Kane and Raymond are producing so that's fine. DeBrincat is not.
I am expecting him to fight or do something

 

[Twinger]

I think only really Larkin, DeBrincat, Sprong, Walman, and Fabbri would be considered in their prime. Maybe Maata, Copp, and Fischer too. Most everyone else is either 24 and younger (Seider, Raymond, Ras, Veleno) or 30+ (literally everyone else).

I had the players you listed plus
Compher
Ghost
Holl
Chariot
12 players in prime range. We're a bubble team and have our weakest still signed for next year in defence and goalie. Who knows what the offseason brings but I see us hovering around wild card next year too

 

[14ari13]

I had the players you listed plus
Compher
Ghost
Holl
Chariot
12 players in prime range. We're a bubble team and have our weakest still signed for next year in defence and goalie. Who knows what the offseason brings but I see us hovering around wild card next year too

Holl is not even in the lineup and the posters on this board pray to God every they Yzerman gets rid of him. Almost the same with Gostibehere. The players you mention in their prime are as relevant for winning games as the fans in the stands or the posters on this board.
Raymond and Seider will be entering their prime next season and then we will have 4 players.

 

[Detroit Knights]

Holl is not even in the lineup and the posters on this board pray to God every they Yzerman gets rid of him. Almost the same with Gostibehere. The players you mention in their prime are as relevant for winning games as the fans in the stands or the posters on this board.
Raymond and Seider will be entering their prime next season and then we will have 4 players.

how long does prime last? I don't think Raymond has touched it yet, seider either if I'm being honest.

I always though prime lasted around 3-5 years, am I wrong on this? Of course there are outliers like a crosby, lidstrom, etc. But those are the top of the top of the top players.

 

[Winger98]

I had the players you listed plus
Compher
Ghost
Holl
Chariot
12 players in prime range. We're a bubble team and have our weakest still signed for next year in defence and goalie. Who knows what the offseason brings but I see us hovering around wild card next year too

Eh, most players have their prime years before they are thirty, at least if you're going by production. I'd also say that pretty much every guy signed through free agency was also signed with none of us expecting them to be stars, but to be bridges to when the kids are ready to be promoted.

Looking at all of these guys listed as prime guys, the only one brought in from outside the organization with realistic expectations of being a top guy was Debrincat. Larkin was drafted, and we got really fortunate with Walman.

 

[Gniwder]

Holl is not even in the lineup and the posters on this board pray to God every they Yzerman gets rid of him. Almost the same with Gostibehere. The players you mention in their prime are as relevant for winning games as the fans in the stands or the posters on this board.
Raymond and Seider will be entering their prime next season and then we will have 4 players.

Mo and Ray can't win without Larkin, and DBoss isn't getting any younger. This team is pretty much screwed unless Danielson becomes Larkin 2.0.

 

[SwedeChristoffer]

I was thinking of core/star players.
Sprong was scratched for the 2nd game, Fabbri should not be in the lineup. Walman won't be top 4 when we become good.

They are already sheltering Kane, Raymond, DeBrincat. Kane and Raymond are producing so that's fine. DeBrincat is not.
I am expecting him to fight or do something

How exactly are they sheltering Raymond?

He's either been playing with Larkin facing mostly 1st or 2nd lines. Or he has been playing without Larkin facing mostly 1st or 2nd lines. He is getting some of the highest dzone Starts of the forwards, and is playing when opposition has their goalie pulled.

How is that usage sheltered?

Kane and Debrincat however are for sure getting sheltered (even when they've been playing with Larkin it has been in an offensive role).

 

[Twinger]

how long does prime last? I don't think Raymond has touched it yet, seider either if I'm being honest.

I always though prime lasted around 3-5 years, am I wrong on this? Of course there are outliers like a crosby, lidstrom, etc. But those are the top of the top of the top players.

In eneral prime for scoring is 24-28 and then 30 is when you see a dip down.
Then for prime overall 26-32

Eh, most players have their prime years before they are thirty, at least if you're going by production. I'd also say that pretty much every guy signed through free agency was also signed with none of us expecting them to be stars, but to be bridges to when the kids are ready to be promoted.

Looking at all of these guys listed as prime guys, the only one brought in from outside the organization with realistic expectations of being a top guy was Debrincat. Larkin was drafted, and we got really fortunate with Walman.

I agree the signed guys were to be stars. I guess it depends on how people think the timeline goes. I was hoping to see Berggren promoted this year or at least see 40ish games

 

[13to40]

It kinda feels like some kind of weird personal vendetta. He has the same flaws as Sprong, about the same level of offense, but they just seem to like Sprong better.

My personal suspicion is that Lalonde is not a fan, and that has tied Yzerman's hands.

I’ve mentioned it in other posts, but he doesn’t possess the same lethal shot as Sprong. That’s the only difference.

To be a smaller/fragile player in the NHL, you have to be the best in one category. Gaudreau and Kane have amazing puck skill, Caufield has a cannon, Burger doesn’t have any elite talent. He’s an above average playmaker and stick handler. He can’t play defence. He isn’t arguably better than anyone in the top 6. He isn’t fit to play in the bottom 6…

Next year if he sticks around he will have another chance to crack the line up in training camp. Otherwise I can see him being moved at the draft for a 3rd or a 2nd if we are lucky, or packaged with a 1st for one heck of a return.

I don’t dislike the player, always have been a fan, I just think some of “us” fans are very unrealistic with this player.

Being a great AHL player doesn’t always translate to being a good NHLer.

 

[14ari13]

Mo and Ray can't win without Larkin, and DBoss isn't getting any younger. This team is pretty much screwed unless Danielson becomes Larkin 2.0.

We know it. And Larkin turns 28 this summer. So what do we have, 4 years of his prime? 7 years.

 

[Henkka]

Mo and Ray can't win without Larkin, and DBoss isn't getting any younger. This team is pretty much screwed unless Danielson becomes Larkin 2.0.

HAH.

Seider and Raymond aren't even near of their primes yet. Stupid to expect too much from them.

 

[19 for president]

Berggy honestly had a combo of bad luck and not having a great camp. He is a small semi one dimensional player. Usually those guys have to have an offensive impact and be in your top 6. The Wings simply don't have room with Kane, DBC, and Ray already up there. Even Larkin isn't a big guy.

I think he can eventually develop into a Hudler, Nyquist, Tatar etc type but I don't see it happening for the Wings with Ray and DBC going to be here for awhile.

He needed to earn his spot out of camp and he didn't. Late season callups usually only stick if they are energy guys in the bottom 6 or elite talent. Ed may not even stick and for the most part he has looked really solid.