News Article: Bergevin Offered Panarin more money

[Mad Brills*]

@onesharpmarble As W7 has pointed out before, 2013 wasn't due to bergevin getting armstrong/bouillon/prust, it was because the injured players came back in markov.

 

[OneSharpMarble]

@onesharpmarble As W7 has pointed out before, 2013 wasn't due to bergevin getting armstrong/bouillon/prust, it was because the injured players came back in markov.

Yes, what the argument 417 is trying to make is the team itself was as bad as 2011-12 when in reality it was a true tank year. MB walked onto the unripened version of the team today, we saw 3 years of good (similar to pre-11-12) results and now the team is stagnating. We would be where we are today if Bergevin had never shown up.

 

[picodon]

Just a quote about Panarin I found on CBSSports... it is a small sampling indeed, but maybe one to take into consideration when thinking what could have been. There is no Kane in MTL...

Who you play alongside matters and it makes an impact. While McDavid gets to play on the worst team in hockey, Panarin has spent most of his season playing alongside Kane on a Stanley Cup contender. He has been a different player away from Kane. In 120 5-on-5 minutes away from Kane, Panarin is a 45 percent possession player, the Blackhawks have been outscored 9-2, and Panarin has not scored a single goal while managing just two assists. That is an admittedly small sampling, and it does not mean that Panarin isn't a great player.

 

[Kriss E]

Yes, what the argument 417 is trying to make is the team itself was as bad as 2011-12 when in reality it was a true tank year. MB walked onto the unripened version of the team today, we saw 3 years of good (similar to pre-11-12) results and now the team is stagnating. We would be where we are today if Bergevin had never shown up.

To me that's the biggest knock on Bergevin. If we hire anybody else who does absolutely nothing bur renew the obvious guys, today we would still have:
Price-Plek-Markov(debatable)-Subban-Pacioretty-Galchenyuk (Timmins pick)-Gallagher-Beaulieu-Emelin-DD-Eller.
I mean, literally the exact same core and primary depth guy except for Petry.
This is after four complete years of work. I just don't understand how this is acceptable work.
The only way this would be okay for me is if over that span, Bergevin had been replenishing our prospect pool with premiere guys, but truth of the matter is we still don't even have a surefire top 6 prospect yet. How insane is this when your primary focus 4 years ago was to rebuild through draft/prospects?..

How he still gets a passing grade by some is just nuts.

 

[The Right Price]

Gotta a hint for you, Bergevin. The reason Panarin went elsewhere? Have a look in your foxhole for the reason.

Truer words have never been spoken.

 

[417]

To me that's the biggest knock on Bergevin. If we hire anybody else who does absolutely nothing bur renew the obvious guys, today we would still have:
Price-Plek-Markov(debatable)-Subban-Pacioretty-Galchenyuk (Timmins pick)-Gallagher-Beaulieu-Emelin-DD-Eller.
I mean, literally the exact same core and primary depth guy except for Petry.
This is after four complete years of work. I just don't understand how this is acceptable work.
The only way this would be okay for me is if over that span, Bergevin had been replenishing our prospect pool with premiere guys, but truth of the matter is we still don't even have a surefire top 6 prospect yet. How insane is this when your primary focus 4 years ago was to rebuild through draft/prospects?..

How he still gets a passing grade by some is just nuts.

See this is my biggest gripe with Bergevin...he said he wanted to build through the draft, yet he's done very little to acquire additional draft picks to increase his odds at landing the impact players. I get it's difficult to get impact players when you're picking 24th-25th-26th every year, ok fair enough.

But then stop re-upping guys like Plekanec, Markov, Desharnais in an effort to keep competing for a playoff spot and go out and get some additional draft picks and do what you've been preaching, and that's to build through the draft.

I mean the messed up royally with Tom Gilbert IMO, I think he could of fetched a nice return at the deadline, it would have given the Habs more ammunition at the draft.

 

[Mad Brills*]

Bergevin's prospects that he drafted that will have an impact soon will be what? Not counting galch, as he inherited that pick.

Mccarron and this year's 1st.

Scherbak is a year away at least, and juulsen is probably 2 years away.

 

[Wats]

Yes, what the argument 417 is trying to make is the team itself was as bad as 2011-12 when in reality it was a true tank year. MB walked onto the unripened version of the team today, we saw 3 years of good (similar to pre-11-12) results and now the team is stagnating. We would be where we are today if Bergevin had never shown up.

What complete BS, 11/12 was as much as a complete tank year as 15/16. Trading impending UFAs for 2nd rounders doesn't mean a team tanked when everything leading up to it suggests otherwise. Gauthier had no vision and added aging cap penalties Bourque/Kaberle without getting anything in return. He gave away Cammalleri who remains the last top 6 forward this team managed to acquire thinking he got a top 6 player in Bourque. I think having bad GM after bad GM is causing people to not see what good management would do if they're tanking. When you tank, any management will first acknowledge the team is going to lose.

Gauthier/Bergevin were/are content with perennial mediocrity and haven't added anything significant to this roster in their 6 combined offseasons. Obviously people going to point to the 3rd overall pick not being traded or the 9th overall pick not being traded but then it's like arguing Oilers GMs were genius for adding McDavid/Hall/etc.

 

[Bryson]

What complete BS, 11/12 was as much as a complete tank year as 15/16. Trading impending UFAs for 2nd rounders doesn't mean a team tanked when everything leading up to it suggests otherwise. Gauthier had no vision and added aging cap penalties Bourque/Kaberle without getting anything in return. He gave away Cammalleri who remains the last top 6 forward this team managed to acquire thinking he got a top 6 player in Bourque. I think having bad GM after bad GM is causing people to not see what good management would do if they're tanking. When you tank, any management will first acknowledge the team is going to lose.

Gauthier/Bergevin were/are content with perennial mediocrity and haven't added anything significant to this roster in their 6 combined offseasons. Obviously people going to point to the 3rd overall pick not being traded or the 9th overall pick not being traded but then it's like arguing Oilers GMs were genius for adding McDavid/Hall/etc.

Erik Cole was not a top six forward? Short term memory or selective memory?

In one and a half years as GM Gauthier added more to this team's core and acquired more picks than MB in four years. Fact. You really think this team wouldn't have rebounded in 12/13 under PG or do you really think that Prust, Armstrong and Bouillon were the difference makers? Gauthier doesn't look like the type that plays playstation and he certainly wouldn't have hired Therrien. That alone makes him a winner!

Gauthier naming two coaches with zero coaching experience was a pure tank move. BargainBin adding coaches with no coaching experience = stability LMAOOOOOOOO

 

[Habs4ev*]

See this is my biggest gripe with Bergevin...he said he wanted to build through the draft, yet he's done very little to acquire additional draft picks to increase his odds at landing the impact players.

he has been doing the exact opposite of what he has been saying,

a team that wants to build through the draft does not trade away draft picks, can somebody remind me how we aquired Vanek and Petry?

 

[417]

he has been doing the exact opposite of what he has been saying,

a team that wants to build through the draft does not trade away draft picks, can somebody remind me how we aquired Vanek and Petry?

I didn't have an issue with either of those deals because both players helped and I thought the price was reasonable.

But I have more of an issue with the fact that he's done nothign else to add additional picks, especially high picks during that time.

The Plekanec extension was a perfect example and i'm not even playing the hindsight game here, there was simply no reason to extend him when they did. None whatsoever.

Just like there was no reason why they didn't move Gilbert earlier in the year, before he shredded his knee.

 

[Habs4ev*]

If bergevin doesn't speak french, he isn't the habs gm. Simple.

i don't think this team will ever win again, until they drop the "must speak french" BS attitude

 

[Wats]

Erik Cole was not a top six forward? Short term memory or selective memory?

In one and a half years as GM Gauthier added more to this team's core and acquired more picks than MB in four years. Fact. You really think this team wouldn't have rebounded in 12/13 under PG or do you really think that Prust, Armstrong and Bouillon were the difference makers? Gauthier doesn't look like the type that plays playstation and he certainly wouldn't have hired Therrien. That alone makes him a winner!

Gauthier naming two coaches with zero coaching experience was a pure tank move. BargainBin adding coaches with no coaching experience = stability LMAOOOOOOOO

Cole was as much as a core top 6 forward added to this team's as Gomez was when he was added in 2009. Since when is getting 1 good season out of an aging player adding to the core? In fact it shows more towards Gauthier's vision of keeping this team in mediocrity rather than rebuilding as some want to paint. He added 3 long term aging players who all were done either the season he acquired them or the following year.

When Perreault (2001 - 2004), Zednik (2001 - 2006), Kovalev (2004 - 2009), Cammalleri (2009 - 2012), Gionta (2009 - 2014) remain the only core forwards added from other teams in 2000s, you know management has been bad.

I guess Bergevin keeping MT when his record was WORSE than Cunney's after Price's injury is a tank move too.

 

[jaffy27]

Bergevin's prospects that he drafted that will have an impact soon will be what? Not counting galch, as he inherited that pick.

Mccarron and this year's 1st.

Scherbak is a year away at least, and juulsen is probably 2 years away.

What does this even mean??
The right player was picked, let's move on. Not his fault String Bean torpedoed this team into 3rd last overall......if anything, he cleaned up the mess and sent this team to three straight playoff appearances and an ECF

Chiccarelli inherited McDavid, Hall, RNH, Nurse....are we gonna dismiss his future success because if this?
Stan Bowman inherited Toews, Kane, Seabrook, Keith.......don't think anyone talks about he inherited players when they talk about his success.

 

[jaffy27]

Erik Cole was not a top six forward? Short term memory or selective memory?

In one and a half years as GM Gauthier added more to this team's core and acquired more picks than MB in four years. Fact. You really think this team wouldn't have rebounded in 12/13 under PG or do you really think that Prust, Armstrong and Bouillon were the difference makers? Gauthier doesn't look like the type that plays playstation and he certainly wouldn't have hired Therrien. That alone makes him a winner!

Gauthier naming two coaches with zero coaching experience was a pure tank move. BargainBin adding coaches with no coaching experience = stability LMAOOOOOOOO

We had all these picks because we sucked pretty bad....thank you String Bean

Besides Cole (which was a good aquisition btw), what top 6 fwd did he aquire?....I know he dealt away our best score in Cammalleri for Bourque

Oh....and it was under his recommendation to aquire Gomez for according to him, doesn't have much of a future in the NHL, Ryan Mcdonaugh.

Aquired Kaberle with term for an expiring contract........god save us

At least our GM doesn't deal away future stars

 

[Bryson]

Cole was as much as a core top 6 forward added to this team's as Gomez was when he was added in 2009. Since when is getting 1 good season out of an aging player adding to the core? In fact it shows more towards Gauthier's vision of keeping this team in mediocrity rather than rebuilding as some want to paint. He added 3 long term aging players who all were done either the season he acquired them or the following year.

When Perreault (2001 - 2004), Zednik (2001 - 2006), Kovalev (2004 - 2009), Cammalleri (2009 - 2012), Gionta (2009 - 2014) remain the only core forwards added from other teams in 2000s, you know management has been bad.

I guess Bergevin keeping MT when his record was WORSE than Cunney's after Price's injury is a tank move too.

You said no top six was acquired after Cammy. Since when is a 35 goal scorer not a top six forward? He still went on to have better seasons than anything MB acquired and given that he had to buyout Parentau it would have just been better to keep him. Even sucky Bourque helped this team get to the ECF. I'll take one good year over five years of nothing. Keeping Therrien is a five year tank move.

 

[Fish on The Sand]

Bergevin's prospects that he drafted that will have an impact soon will be what? Not counting galch, as he inherited that pick.

Mccarron and this year's 1st.

Scherbak is a year away at least, and juulsen is probably 2 years away.

Juulsen also has limited upside. There's nothing wrong with that given where we picked him, but even at 2 years away, he's probably 4-5 years away from making a significant impact.

 

[phoque taupe]

#NosExcuses

 

[OneSharpMarble]

Cole was as much as a core top 6 forward added to this team's as Gomez was when he was added in 2009. Since when is getting 1 good season out of an aging player adding to the core? In fact it shows more towards Gauthier's vision of keeping this team in mediocrity rather than rebuilding as some want to paint. He added 3 long term aging players who all were done either the season he acquired them or the following year.

When Perreault (2001 - 2004), Zednik (2001 - 2006), Kovalev (2004 - 2009), Cammalleri (2009 - 2012), Gionta (2009 - 2014) remain the only core forwards added from other teams in 2000s, you know management has been bad.

I guess Bergevin keeping MT when his record was WORSE than Cunney's after Price's injury is a tank move too.

Gomez, one of the worst contracts in the entire league was the same as a FA signed who went on to be our first power forward in 10 years and scored 35 goals? That isn't to mention the way Cole helped Paciorettys and DD's game. The Cole/DD/Pac line was incredible to watch but I guess you have no taste for dynamic hockey. Funny how you **** on the Cole signing and then praise the Vanek move. We gave up less and got more out of Cole than Vanek by a mile but no the Vanek move was building the future, a true transition right?

Oh no not aging players! If only we could get some players that don't age, then we will be set. What long term contracts? Baby bergie got his buyouts on entry anyways, it had no effect long term. Are you still whining about kaberle?

It's funny because Cunny was gone after his season but our current coach not only remains but is getting his friends in on the scam as well. Does Bergevin plan to tank next season too? Maybe Bergie can keep his tank going with Galchenyuk on the 2nd line again.

 

[Mad Brills*]

Cole >>> gomez.

 

[Fish on The Sand]

That team was nowhere near as bad as the record showed. They were as unlucky in one goal games as the 2014-2015 team was lucky in them.

Just look at the 2011-2012 teams goal differential, it was better than like 10 teams ahead of them.


If the team was so bad, Habs wouldn't still have the exact same core five years later.

Our goal differential that year was actually better than the Panthers who won their division. We weren't a bad team in 2012. We were a good team who had a bad season.

 

[Kriss E]

See this is my biggest gripe with Bergevin...he said he wanted to build through the draft, yet he's done very little to acquire additional draft picks to increase his odds at landing the impact players. I get it's difficult to get impact players when you're picking 24th-25th-26th every year, ok fair enough.

But then stop re-upping guys like Plekanec, Markov, Desharnais in an effort to keep competing for a playoff spot and go out and get some additional draft picks and do what you've been preaching, and that's to build through the draft.

I mean the messed up royally with Tom Gilbert IMO, I think he could of fetched a nice return at the deadline, it would have given the Habs more ammunition at the draft.

Glad you're starting to see things clearer.
Now, because Bergevin didn't do these things, you assume a more aggressive approach towards signing/trading players would have been taken. No. He hasn't been aggressive on the trade or free agency front, nor has he replenished the prospect pool.
In a nutshell, he's done very little. His top 6 (Patches-Galch-Galla-Plek-Eller-DD) and top 4 (PK-Markov-Emelin-Beaulieu) is essentially the same. The only addition is Petry, moving Beaulieu/Emelin down. According to himself, he let Timmins pick, so he gets little to no credit for the Galch pick imo. That's it.
That+not even a surefire top 6 prospect, after 4 years at the helm, is a massive failure.
I really do not get how you look at that though and tell yourself, he's earned another chance.
It's a massive failure.

 

[habalifeok]

Glad you're starting to see things clearer.
Now, because Bergevin didn't do these things, you assume a more aggressive approach towards signing/trading players would have been taken. No. He hasn't been aggressive on the trade or free agency front, nor has he replenished the prospect pool.
In a nutshell, he's done very little. His top 6 (Patches-Galch-Galla-Plek-Eller-DD) and top 4 (PK-Markov-Emelin-Beaulieu) is essentially the same. The only addition is Petry, moving Beaulieu/Emelin down. According to himself, he let Timmins pick, so he gets little to no credit for the Galch pick imo. That's it.
That+not even a surefire top 6 prospect, after 4 years at the helm, is a massive failure.
I really do not get how you look at that though and tell yourself, he's earned another chance.
It's a massive failure.

This year the Habs lost approx 18 games by 1 goal and in these games the Habs scored an average of 1.67 goals.
Now a combination of scenarios could have allowed us to win at least 6 more games and possibly get into the playoffs.
1: Score 1 pp goal in 12 0f those games. This would give us 7th best powerplay in the league and a shot at ending regulation tied in those 12games. Odds of winning 50% of overtime games would be good.
2:in the 18 games lost by 1 goal the Habs allowed 3 goals against. This was close to seasonal average.Odds of allowing less goals per game in the 18 games lost by one goal were not good considering the goalies performance.
3:Scoring 1 more even strength goal per game in 12 of the games lost by one goal would have given,possibly,the Habs a 50% chance of picking up 6 more wins.Possibly making the playoffs.
The fact that the Habs missed the playoffs was so obviously on the lack of goal scoring as illustrated by point3 and to a lesser extent on the power play.
I attribute blame on goal scoring to the core players excluding(Galchenyuk,Pacioretty and Gallagher).
Also on Management for not acquiring more goal scoring.
The return of Price and a healthy defense will guarantee playoffs but not nuch more.

 

[417]

Glad you're starting to see things clearer.
Now, because Bergevin didn't do these things, you assume a more aggressive approach towards signing/trading players would have been taken. No. He hasn't been aggressive on the trade or free agency front, nor has he replenished the prospect pool.
In a nutshell, he's done very little. His top 6 (Patches-Galch-Galla-Plek-Eller-DD) and top 4 (PK-Markov-Emelin-Beaulieu) is essentially the same. The only addition is Petry, moving Beaulieu/Emelin down. According to himself, he let Timmins pick, so he gets little to no credit for the Galch pick imo. That's it.
That+not even a surefire top 6 prospect, after 4 years at the helm, is a massive failure.
I really do not get how you look at that though and tell yourself, he's earned another chance.
It's a massive failure.

I'm not STARTING to see anything clearer....i just have a different approach than you do.

 

[hey]

I'm happy to hear the Habs scouting realized this kid was worth signing. It shows the scouts are doing there job. Panarin going with the hawks is an obvious choice. Won't you want to sign with a talented team with a style that complements your style. This shouldn't be a bashing thread...I hate our coaching but it's a leap to suggest what line he would be used on, how many minutes he would play with the habs, or if he did not choose the habs because of the coaching staff..