Ben Chiarot- the real deal or product of Byfuglien?

[JetsFan815]

Chiarot's play has been a pleasant surprise this season. He has shown that he belongs at the NHL level but how much does Buff have to do with it? Can he carry a third pairing with Postma?

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[Mathmew Purrrr Oh]

can't skate or move the puck well enough to carry a pairing

he might have the upside to be an average bottom pairing defenceman which is something I would never have believed 2 months ago

 

[Holden Caulfield]

can't skate or move the puck well enough to carry a pairing

he might have the upside to be an average bottom pairing defenceman which is something I would never have believed 2 months ago

Exactly.

"Carry" a pairing with Postma? No Postma would "carry" that pairing if anything. Postma is being hugely underrated right now due to Chiarot's fortune of playing LD with Buff and Postma having to lug around Pardy, but Postma is in every way a better defenseman than Chiarot. Chiarot has stepped up ADMIRABLY when thrust into the role he's been placed in, but's let's be serious here. With the way Buff has dominating right now anyone would be fine beside him.

 

[Sweech]

Buff is definitely making him look better than he is and masking some of his deficiencies like puck movement.

Is he still an NHL defenseman? Probably, but just a bottom pairing or seventh defenseman.

I'd love if some team overvalued him because he's young and Buff is making him look good and we could get solid trade value for him right now.

 

[KingBogo]

Buff is definitely making him look better than he is and masking some of his deficiencies like puck movement.

Is he still an NHL defenseman? Probably, but just a bottom pairing or seventh defenseman.

I'd love if some team overvalued him because he's young and Buff is making him look good and we could get solid trade value for him right now.

IMO Chiarot is better then people give him credit for and will end up as a long time Jet. Ultimately he gets pushed down to the 3rd pairing by Morrissey, but for now we need him. Unless one of our top 4 can adapt to the left side, trading him would promote either Stuart or Harrison up the depth chart.

 

[Jeti]

can't skate or move the puck well enough to carry a pairing

he might have the upside to be an average bottom pairing defenceman which is something I would never have believed 2 months ago

Absolutely agreed. Seems no one believed me in the Morrissey thread when I said that though.

Remember when Clitsome looked great beside Byfuglien? We were all praising how he shut down Ovechkin, laid some nice hits, seemed mobile and made good outlet passes. Then you take away Byfuglien and suddenly he doesn't have a strong partner getting the puck out in tough situations (and the vast majority of the time) or making perfect passes over to him (ex. contrary to how Stuart throws the puck in Trouba's feet or behind him a dozen times a game). Suddenly his decision making looks terrible, he's getting trapped in his own zone a lot and his defensive coverage starts to look suspect. It all snowballs from there.

We simply don't know how Chiarot would do with a lot less time and space. Maybe he's a functional bottom-pairing guy. I don't believe he's a top-4 D or that he even has that upside though. And (going back to the Morrissey thread again) I don't think he's any competition to Morrissey next year if Morrissey is at all ready. It's probably more likely than not that even Stuart makes the team over him next year.

 

[GJF]

can't skate or move the puck well enough to carry a pairing

he might have the upside to be an average bottom pairing defenceman which is something I would never have believed 2 months ago

signed. And I called it. And I won't get tired mentioning it

 

[YWGinYYZ]

I think Chiarot has the potential to be a decent #5/6. He does work well with Buff, which is a good thing, IMHO: if that pairing can more than hold their own, then Buff is essentially turning a #5-8 d-man into a top 4 guy. I'll take that for the short term.

Morrissey will eventually surpass him in the lineup.

My question going forward: is he better than Stuart, Harrison, Pardy and Postma? Does he eventually strengthen our 3rd pairing? If so, we've gotten better by promoting from within.

 

[Waldo]

What do the Jets do when Trouba comes back? There isn't enough ice time for En/Bo Stew/Tr Ch/Buf. It may be that Buff plays his offside with either Bogo or Trouba. It doesn't seem likely that Buff goes back to forward. It'll be interesting to see how Mo manages this.

I wonder if Postma can be converted to a winger. He has some skills. It gets complicated having such a wealth of talent on D. I think I need to give Mo a call and advise him what he should do.

 

[Puckatron 3000]

Chairot certainly benefits from Buff. But there is some natural talent and effort at play as well.

There isn't enough ice time for En/Bo Stew/Tr Ch/Buf.

I've read this criticism a few times of the En/Bogo, Stu/Troubs, Chairot/Buff lineup. I get it. But I'm still pro- these pairings, because:
1. These pairings all work, and
2. Spreading around the ice-time a little will minimize risk of injury for the post-season.

If one of these pairings breaks down, e.g. Chairot or Stu stop holding their weight, then and only then would I want to see experiments with a D on their off-side.

For now, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Oh, and one final benefit is that both Chairot and Stu have improved dramatically with their strong partners. That development is good for us long-term, either as bottom-pairing D, depth, or trade chips.

 

[Aavco Cup]

Chairot certainly benefits from Buff. But there is some natural talent and effort at play as well.



I've read this criticism a few times of the En/Bogo, Stu/Troubs, Chairot/Buff lineup. I get it. But I'm still pro- these pairings, because:
1. These pairings all work, and
2. Spreading around the ice-time a little will minimize risk of injury for the post-season.

If one of these pairings breaks down, e.g. Chairot or Stu stop holding their weight, then and only then would I want to see experiments with a D on their off-side.

For now, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Oh, and one final benefit is that both Chairot and Stu have improved dramatically with their strong partners. That development is good for us long-term, either as bottom-6 players, depth, or trade chips.

I agree. Three very good to outstanding pairings is a nice problem to have. Imagine the 4th line might even look better without the 2 Stu's.

Eventually (offseason) a decision will need to be made but getting Trouba back will be just like a fantastic addition at the trade deadline.

 

[PhilJets]

This is comaparible to Clitsome when paired with Buff

 

[EpicGingy]

In a perfect world Chiarot proves himself to be a better option on the bottom pairing than Stuart, and Morrissey can handle second pairing duties next year.

However I don't see Stuart seeing much of the pressbox considering how much MO loves him even if Chiarot proves to be capable without Byfuglien.

 

[Jets4Life]

What do the Jets do when Trouba comes back? There isn't enough ice time for En/Bo Stew/Tr Ch/Buf. It may be that Buff plays his offside with either Bogo or Trouba. It doesn't seem likely that Buff goes back to forward. It'll be interesting to see how Mo manages this.

I wonder if Postma can be converted to a winger. He has some skills. It gets complicated having such a wealth of talent on D. I think I need to give Mo a call and advise him what he should do.

When Trouba gets back, we should package a deal with an extra D-men with either Tangradi or Slater (since Thorburn is untradable due to large contract). We should acquire a 3rd line forward who can play on the 4th line to help, or bump one of our present 3rd liners down, as it's a big weak spot right now. Not enough depth on offense.

 

[Aavco Cup]

When Trouba gets back, we should package a deal with an extra D-men with either Tangradi or Slater (since Thorburn is untradable due to large contract).

do we get to give Montreal Budaj back ?

 

[Romang67]

do we get to give Montreal Budaj back ?

No! Hellebuyck won't seem as impressive if his backup is capable of winning games!

 

[ps241]

I am really impresses with the job he has done but am solidly in the camp that thinks he is probably being carried by Buff. I am not quite willing to say because Clitty got carried Chiarot = Clitty. Grant took more chances even when he was playing with Buff and Ben plays a cleaner simpler game IMO. I will wait to see how he does when he is split apart from Buff before I pass judgment. I will say that I think Chairot and Postma could be a decent bottom pairing.

If he pans out to be an average bottom pairing NHL D man that would be a total bonus that I didn't see coming. Can never have too much organizational depth

 

[Edgar Halliwax]

As Forret Gump once said - "I think maybe is both"

 

[scelaton]

I too am stunned by how well Chiarot has fit in, but I think he may have more upside than he is getting credit for. Let's look at the comparators that have been cited:

Clitsome was 27 years old when he had his only strong season, with Buff.
Postma is still trying to secure regular employment at 25
Redmond had barely finished University at Chiarot's age and is still struggling for FT work at 26.

Chiarot is only 23. He has excellent size, a hard and accurate shot, is physical, and has shown good hockey IQ thus far. He has played big minutes on our first pairing for almost 20 games.

He has better physical assets than Clitty and is way ahead of his development arc.
He is tougher in his own end than Postma
He has made fewer egregious errors in 19 games than Harrison has made in the last 3!

I have no idea where this young man will ultimately fit in. All I know is that we were desperate for big, strong, smart, safe complimentary LHDs on this team and he came to us like manna from heaven.
He will never win the Norris, but the last thing we need on this team right now is more flash on defense.

 

[Jay Gatsby]

I think Chiarot's play has mostly been a product of him playing alongside Dustin Byfuglien. Right now, almost any professional hockey player could look useful playing with #33.

I think it's not useful to compare Clitsome's play with Buff with what Chiarot is doing right now, as Clitsome played with Buff when he was much less reliable than he is right now.

Chiarot looks reliable in the defensive zone? I don't really think so. The decisive puck battles are almost exclusively won by Byfuglien.
Outlet pass is always played by Buff.

I don't say you should scratch Chiarot in favour of Pardy or Postma, since Chiarot doesn't make mistakes right now - it works.
But I think for the most part he is just a lucky spin-off of Buff's play.

 

[scelaton]

Serious questions for more serious students of hockey than I:
If a dominant D like Buff can carry any serviceable partner, then why have a top pair in the first place?
If the above is not true, and if the weak link in a top pair is easily exploited, why has that not seemingly happened to Chiarot thus far?

 

[Jay Gatsby]

I wouldn't consider the Jets a team even having a "Top pair".

If you'd go with Bogosian-Enstrom, Stuart-Trouba, and Byfuglien-Chiarot, I wouldn't even make a difference between the pairings.

The relevant question is what you need out of your D. For the Jets, the work in the D-zone is much more important right now compared to the offensive production. If I wouldn't want to surrender a goal in the last minute, I personally wouldn't go with the "Top pair" of Byfuglien and Chiarot.

I would rank pairings according to the situation. If you need a shot block, Stuart would be on the All-Star team

 

[Huffer]

I've liked Chariot's play for the most part, and like his upside considering he's only 23, and this is his first taste of NHL action.

IMO it's fairly easy to say he's getting carried by Buff, because I can't say that on his own Chariot is a second pairing D man, let alone a 1st with Buff. What seems to be working is that he "meshes" with Buff, and his stay at home style is working well with Buff's.

 

[Romang67]

To me, I have the same feeling as I did when Postma was paired up with Toby. He's good enough to be a regular when paired up with a partner that isn't crap, but he would be way over his head playing those minutes if he didn't play with an extraordinary partner.

 

[sipowicz]

Exactly.

"Carry" a pairing with Postma? No Postma would "carry" that pairing if anything. Postma is being hugely underrated right now due to Chiarot's fortune of playing LD with Buff and Postma having to lug around Pardy, but Postma is in every way a better defenseman than Chiarot. Chiarot has stepped up ADMIRABLY when thrust into the role he's been placed in, but's let's be serious here. With the way Buff has dominating right now anyone would be fine beside him.

How is Postma in every way a better defenceman? Postma moves the puck better, can skate the puck out very well, and is a good passer with a good shot. Chariot moves the puck okay, can skate the puck out, decent passer and a damn fine shot. Slight edge to Postma

In their own end, Postma is weak on the body, doesn't usually win puck battles, usually fails to tie up forwards near the net, okay one on one. Chariot very physical and punishing defender, wins puck battles, ties up and moves opposition forwards near the net, okay one on one. Chariot better in his own end.

Pretty even if you ask me, edge to Chariot with his size and youth. Postma needs to be moved.