Bears and NFL Talk Thread LIII: Countdown to the Preseason

[HawksBeerFan]

That's a might big "if," though. I get hoping for the best, but I don't get this notion that we have a top third guy in the league on our hands now based on what we've seen. We've seen hints of competency overall from him, and even recognizing the limited opportunities he's been given and limited weapons available to him, a lot is left to the imagination to think that he's truly great potential.

And I'm not saying that Pace is always wrong, and you did highlight some good picks, but they also have to be coached with some hefty swings and misses, especially in free agency, and the fact that the Trubisky pick is still open for discussion on if it was worth it beyond the initial reaction by everyone in the business of being dumbfounded by disbelief.

And I'm not saying we should cut Trubisky now, nor am I suggesting that he's doomed to be bad, mediocre, merely good, or whatever. I just mentioned that if we hit the reset button on the GM and coach simultaneously, the worst that could happen would be if they decided that Trubisky wasn't going to be their guy going forward.

Couple points in reply:

1. Most important, we need to remember Mitch is a rookie. I've posted the rookie stats of guys like Brees, Rodgers and Manning in here before and guess what, it's not amazing. Heck they're not even really all that decent. The point is it's very hard for a rookie QB to be a very successful pocket passer. To add to this, how bad did Goff look last year?

2. Agreed, free agency is somewhere Pace needs to be better. I can't think of any MAJOR mistakes though, even the Glennon signing, which was terrible, is really only a one year deal. I don't want this point to be about defending him but if you could have a GM who was good at drafting or good at signing free agents, which would you pick?

3. Which sure fire GM-candidate will come in here and immediately be better than Pace? I think there is a major learning curve to being a GM so no matter who you bring in I doubt there will be a significant improvement in year 1. I'd much rather figure out if Pace is truly a good GM instead of saying, well maybe he is and maybe he isn't, but we really want to start from scratch. That's how you emulate the Browns.

 

[piteus]

That's a might big "if," though. I get hoping for the best, but I don't get this notion that we have a top third guy in the league on our hands now based on what we've seen. We've seen hints of competency overall from him, and even recognizing the limited opportunities he's been given and limited weapons available to him, a lot is left to the imagination to think that he's truly great potential.

And I'm not saying that Pace is always wrong, and you did highlight some good picks, but they also have to be coached with some hefty swings and misses, especially in free agency, and the fact that the Trubisky pick is still open for discussion on if it was worth it beyond the initial reaction by everyone in the business of being dumbfounded by disbelief.

And I'm not saying we should cut Trubisky now, nor am I suggesting that he's doomed to be bad, mediocre, merely good, or whatever. I just mentioned that if we hit the reset button on the GM and coach simultaneously, the worst that could happen would be if they decided that Trubisky wasn't going to be their guy going forward.

I don't know what Trubisky will be. However, NO ONE can be sure with this coaching staff. Not even a hint. Every rookie QB struggles finding 3rd / 4th options. You think Garoppolo would be doing what he is doing as a rookie with this coaching staff? You have to give him time. There's no way around it.

We asked Trubisky to improve his accuracy. He did ... went 12/15. His biggest problem is going downfield and finding his 3rd and 4th options. The latter we knew would be a problem for a rookie. The question is if he will improve in this area. Some QBs never do. We don't know if Trubisky ever will. As for going downfield, we all know it's Fox's plan. He's done it before with Delhomme, Clausen, and Tebow. He admitted that he loves those ugly games.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Again, I'm not saying we should pull the plug on Trubisky. I just said we should cool our expectations before he's anointed a great QB and recognizing that if we cleaned house and started fresh, the new boss might not have the same positive opinion on Trubisky as the old boss.

As for who could replace Pace, that is the million dollar question, isn't it? Nick Caserio from the Pats or George Paton from the Vikings stand out as good choices in my book, though I'm sure that there will be budgetary concerns that would lead one to think that the Bears wouldn't be a major spender for either coach or GM. Poaching Eliot Wolf from the Packers might not hurt, either. I won't pretend to have a good in-depth knowledge of the front offices around the NFL to go to deep, though. Whether or not Chicago is attractive for potential heirs apparent is another concern as well.

 

[Illinihockey]

Kyle Long on IR

 

[TheSting]

Couple points in reply:
2. Agreed, free agency is somewhere Pace needs to be better. I can't think of any MAJOR mistakes though, even the Glennon signing, which was terrible, is really only a one year deal. I don't want this point to be about defending him but if you could have a GM who was good at drafting or good at signing free agents, which would you pick?
.

Gotta hit on both. Those draft picks while great have a window of 3-5 years playing at peak performance before play tails off due to physical attrition and injuries. It's called the Win Now League for a reason.

The 2006 Bears Superbowl team under Angelo drafted playmakers on Defense but he had to hit on Free agency on the O side of the ball. That team led the NFC in scoring. In fact 9 of the 16 games that year the Bears scored 30 points or more. You knew it was to be a special year when Grossman came out firing opening day and the Bears smoked the Packers and Lions with a combined score of 60-7, lol

2006 Superbowl Bears Starting Roster on Offense
Rex Grossman QB, DRAFT
Thomas Jones RB, Free Agent signing from Arizona
Jason McKie FB, Walk on when Cowboys released him
Bernard Berrian WR, DRAFT
Muhsin Muhammad WR, Free Agent signing from Carolina
Dez Clark TE, Free Agent signing from Denver
John Tait LT, Free Agent from KC
Ruben Brown LF, Free Agent from Buffalo
Olin Kreutz C, DRAFT
Roberto Garza RG, Free Agent from Falcons
Fred Miller RT, Free Agent from Rams

 

[BK]

Gotta hit on both. Those draft picks while great have a window of 3-5 years playing at peak performance before play tails off due to physical attrition and injuries. It's called the Win Now League for a reason.

The 2006 Bears Superbowl team under Angelo drafted playmakers on Defense but he had to hit on Free agency on the O side of the ball. That team led the NFC in scoring. In fact 9 of the 16 games that year the Bears scored 30 points or more. You knew it was to be a special year when Grossman came out firing opening day and the Bears smoked the Packers and Lions with a combined score of 60-7, lol

2006 Superbowl Bears Starting Roster on Offense
Rex Grossman QB, DRAFT
Thomas Jones RB, Free Agent signing from Arizona
Jason McKie FB, Walk on when Cowboys released him
Bernard Berrian WR, DRAFT
Muhsin Muhammad WR, Free Agent signing from Carolina
Dez Clark TE, Free Agent signing from Denver
John Tait LT, Free Agent from KC
Ruben Brown LF, Free Agent from Buffalo
Olin Kreutz C, DRAFT
Roberto Garza RG, Free Agent from Falcons
Fred Miller RT, Free Agent from Rams

Who would you have signed? Ever thought Pace is waiting to spend till he has some drafted talent in the organization. The Bears have a lot of cash to spend in the next two years when their window could actually be open unlike the this season or the prior season.

 

[TheSting]

 

[HawksBeerFan]

Again, I'm not saying we should pull the plug on Trubisky. I just said we should cool our expectations before he's anointed a great QB and recognizing that if we cleaned house and started fresh, the new boss might not have the same positive opinion on Trubisky as the old boss.

As for who could replace Pace, that is the million dollar question, isn't it? Nick Caserio from the Pats or George Paton from the Vikings stand out as good choices in my book, though I'm sure that there will be budgetary concerns that would lead one to think that the Bears wouldn't be a major spender for either coach or GM. Poaching Eliot Wolf from the Packers might not hurt, either. I won't pretend to have a good in-depth knowledge of the front offices around the NFL to go to deep, though. Whether or not Chicago is attractive for potential heirs apparent is another concern as well.

And with all those guys you really don't know how good they are going to be, which is partially my point. Pace has a good record of drafting thus far and we don't know if he hit on a franchise QB or not.

It really just makes literally no sense to start over at this point. It's also not going to happen so it's kind of a moot point.

 

[TheSting]

Who would you have signed? Ever thought Pace is waiting to spend till he has some drafted talent in the organization. The Bears have a lot of cash to spend in the next two years when their window could actually be open unlike the this season or the prior season.

Guarantee lot of those guys Angelo signed were not for 1 year prove it or lose it deals. When guys are accepting 1 year contracts, it's most likely due to he can't find a job as no other team is interested in them, lol

 

[HawksBeerFan]

Guarantee lot of those guys Angelo signed were not for 1 year prove it or lose it deals. When guys are accepting 1 year contracts, it's most likely due to he can't find a job as no other team is interested in them, lol

Should the Cubs have signed a bunch of guys to long term deals in 2012?

 

[piteus]

Again, I'm not saying we should pull the plug on Trubisky. I just said we should cool our expectations before he's anointed a great QB and recognizing that if we cleaned house and started fresh, the new boss might not have the same positive opinion on Trubisky as the old boss.

As for who could replace Pace, that is the million dollar question, isn't it? Nick Caserio from the Pats or George Paton from the Vikings stand out as good choices in my book, though I'm sure that there will be budgetary concerns that would lead one to think that the Bears wouldn't be a major spender for either coach or GM. Poaching Eliot Wolf from the Packers might not hurt, either. I won't pretend to have a good in-depth knowledge of the front offices around the NFL to go to deep, though. Whether or not Chicago is attractive for potential heirs apparent is another concern as well.

Managing expectations is always a good idea.

What do you think of Rick Spielman ... the GM of the Viking? He's really good. He will probably be the executive of the year. Did you know he was known as a clown when he was the GM of the Dolphins. A lot of this is just plain dumb luck. There was a time when Belichick was known as a clown. He thought Vinny Testeverde could lead him to the Promised Land. Then one firing later, he drafted Tom Brady.

 

[TheSting]

Should the Cubs have signed a bunch of guys to long term deals in 2012?

Are you really comparing the NFL to MLB?? Why stop there? Let's get Manchester United soccer club into the mix, shall we? You start!

 

[Illinihockey]

Are you really comparing the NFL to MLB?? Why stop there? Let's get Manchester United soccer club into the mix, shall we? You start!

It’s an apt comparison but NFL players age even worse than MLB ones

 

[Panzerspitze]

Gotta hit on both. Those draft picks while great have a window of 3-5 years playing at peak performance before play tails off due to physical attrition and injuries. It's called the Win Now League for a reason.

The 2006 Bears Superbowl team under Angelo drafted playmakers on Defense but he had to hit on Free agency on the O side of the ball. That team led the NFC in scoring. In fact 9 of the 16 games that year the Bears scored 30 points or more. You knew it was to be a special year when Grossman came out firing opening day and the Bears smoked the Packers and Lions with a combined score of 60-7, lol

2006 Superbowl Bears Starting Roster on Offense
Rex Grossman QB, DRAFT
Thomas Jones RB, Free Agent signing from Arizona
Jason McKie FB, Walk on when Cowboys released him
Bernard Berrian WR, DRAFT
Muhsin Muhammad WR, Free Agent signing from Carolina
Dez Clark TE, Free Agent signing from Denver
John Tait LT, Free Agent from KC
Ruben Brown LF, Free Agent from Buffalo
Olin Kreutz C, DRAFT
Roberto Garza RG, Free Agent from Falcons
Fred Miller RT, Free Agent from Rams

Cedric Benson was doing well too, in a tandem with T. Jones, until Ron Turdner decided to let Wrecks throw the game away against a run-vulnerable Colts defense.

 

[BK]

Guarantee lot of those guys Angelo signed were not for 1 year prove it or lose it deals. When guys are accepting 1 year contracts, it's most likely due to he can't find a job as no other team is interested in them, lol

How hard is it for you to just answer a question? Who would you have signed?

 

[TheSting]

How hard is it for you to just answer a question? Who would you have signed?

Why does it matter? One thing I've learned from hanging on the Blackhawks threads is there is literally no point in having the last say in any particular subject matter just to do so.... It's already given regardless of who the Bears sign the scapegoat is going to be John Fox just like your scapegoat is always going to be Brent Seabrook and Coach Quennville and nothing is going to change that going forward regardless of woulda shoulda coulda. capiche?

 

[BK]

Why does it matter? One thing I've learned from hanging on the Blackhawks threads is there is literally no point in having the last say in any particular subject matter just to do so.... It's already given regardless of who the Bears sign the scapegoat is going to be John Fox just like your scapegoat is always going to be Brent Seabrook and Coach Quennville and nothing is going to change that going forward regardless of woulda shoulda coulda. capiche?

I get what you are saying but typically when you are critical of something you have a potential solution. This is how discussions work but instead you are just calling people "nubs" and just saying people suck because of record only. How about a little depth? You will notice a decent amount of posters go into detail if you pay attention.

My scapegoats Q and Seabrook? Do you even read threads? I am critical for sure but there are reasons but the whole team is open to criticism.

You are just deflecting and that is fine. Next time just say you don't know.

 

[TheSting]

I get what you are saying but typically when you are critical of something you have a potential solution. This is how discussions work but instead you are just calling people "nubs" and just saying people suck because of record only. How about a little depth? You will notice a decent amount of posters go into detail if you pay attention.

The only stance I been consistent with is Pace not getting the same amount of heat but it is what it is. Cya!

 

[BK]

The only stance I been consistent with is Pace not getting the same amount of heat but it is what it is. Cya!

Far from your only stance but if you don't want to answer that is your choice.

 

[Bubba88]

still hasn't answered with Names Pace should have signed that were possible

 

[Illinihockey]

Cya!

We can only hope

 

[HeisenBaez]

The only stance I been consistent with is Pace not getting the same amount of heat but it is what it is. Cya!

He shouldn't be getting the same heat. He has brought in talent, Fox and his staff has failed to developed said talent. That's not on Pace, that is on Fox and the coaching staff. Once removed and Pace has HIS coach in place, then the heat will be squarely on Pace.

 

[piteus]

So Josh McDaniel's brother is a low level Bears assistant coach. That's interesting. He'll have all the necessary input if he wants the job or not.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

That just further shows how bad Bears are run

Ben McDaniels having an NFL job is a joke in itself

 

[piteus]

That just further shows how bad Bears are run

Ben McDaniels having an NFL job is a joke in itself

I don't know much about him. Is he a joke?