Barkov vs Rantanen vs Laine

[Peggy]

laine would get drafted before barkov
scoring goals is the highest value in the nhl and most gms know that

so everyone saying "if I were building a team" well unless your name is mcdavid, Matthews or eichel
, laine gets drafted before barkov

 

[MMANumminen]

Matthews and Eichel are not better than Barkov, it's the other way around

 

[Harmonica1]

no. how it works

when your team so down a goal or 2
you want a player like laine

as a jets fan it's really important that we got a player like laine that can be a threat from anywhere on the ice

2 way player who can be responsible in there own is nice, but being able to actually goals is nicer

No, you always take the centre. Doesn't matter if it's Selänne vs. Andre Deveaux or something. That's what hfboards, and last years Calder taught for people. And now I know, and you should too.

 

[cgf]

No, you always take the centre. Doesn't matter if it's Selänne vs. Andre Deveaux or something. That's what hfboards, and last years Calder taught for people. And now I know, and you should too.

Unless the winger scores more goals, because goals are all that matters. Thus why Grabner & Pirri are superstars.

 

[Ainec]

looks at cups and playoff wins for selke winners
looks at cups and playoff wins for rocket richard

yeah wingers win cups not centers

 

[ole ole]

Laine is the EASY choice for me.

 

[Peggy]

No, you always take the centre. Doesn't matter if it's Selänne vs. Andre Deveaux or something. That's what hfboards, and last years Calder taught for people. And now I know, and you should too.

you always take the centre? is that why ovechkin was drafted 1st over all and will go down as one of the best goal scorers of all time?

 

[Freudian]

Barkov for me. He's a center with as good a two way game you will find in a player under 25.

The other two are great young players as well. Much like Sweden did a 180 when it comes to player development, so has Finland.

 

[Critical13]

Barkov

 

[Harmonica1]

you always take the centre? is that why ovechkin was drafted 1st over all and will go down as one of the best goal scorers of all time?

That was a long time ago, people obviously have learned from that.

 

[Binister]

Barkov

Rane/Laine.

And this is how it goes.

 

[Asiantuntija]

Sasha Barkov first season; 54 games 8+16 = 24
Sasha Barkov second season; 71 games 16+20 = 44

Patrik Laine first season; 73 games 36+28 = 64
Patrik Laine second season; 71 games 43+25 = 68

Laine, not even close.

 

[goblin3]

Sasha Barkov first season; 54 games 8+16 = 24
Sasha Barkov second season; 71 games 16+20 = 44

Patrik Laine first season; 73 games 36+28 = 64
Patrik Laine second season; 71 games 43+25 = 68

Laine, not even close.

Barkov did play with Brad Boyes and Sean Bergenheim, though. Something like 0.9 PPG after paired with Huberdeau and Jagr.

 

[thomast]

Barkov is 1st for me with decent margin. Laine is 2nd but looks clueless at D zone with the puck. He has generational shot though. Rantanen is better with the puck than Laine but Laine has better hockeyIQ without the puck and posesses most lethal weapon in the NHL.

 

[Peggy]

That was a long time ago, people obviously have learned from that.

they learned what? lol
ovechkin is one of the greatest players of all time

do you know how much of an influence laine has had on the jets as of late?

he's been a scoring machine and besides helleybuck he's been the biggest influence on the score board

 

[Hockeyisl1fe]

Laine's offensive ceiling is so high that it's really hard to vote against him. When we look at their junior production that's even more evident. He was an actual cheat code against his peers before his knee injury which ruined his 2014/15 season and really took a toll on his development. 17 points/12 goals in 7 games as an underager in 2013/14 u17 tournaments, absolutely ridiculous. Scouts said that he did whatever he wanted on the ice. When his opponents no longer have physical advantage over him in the NHL in his prime, look out.

 

[Harmonica1]

they learned what? lol
ovechkin is one of the greatest players of all time

do you know how much of an influence laine has had on the jets as of late?

he's been a scoring machine and besides helleybuck he's been the biggest influence on the score board

Relax, I agree with you. I'm just taking the piss on the whole "you always pick up center" mantra.

 

[cgf]

Sasha Barkov first season; 54 games 8+16 = 24
Sasha Barkov second season; 71 games 16+20 = 44

Patrik Laine first season; 73 games 36+28 = 64
Patrik Laine second season; 71 games 43+25 = 68

Laine, not even close.

Curious how you only include Sasha's 1st two seasons as though development is linear and what Barkov did 4 years ago has much relevance on the player he has become.

 

[StatisticsAddict99]

Curious how you only include Sasha's 1st two seasons as though development is linear and what Barkov did 4 years ago has much relevance on the player he has become.

Well consisency is not always linear, what makes you think Barkov will keep playing at his pace he has this year? Nothing is to be expected of either guy but you can’t take the context out of the window, Laine is getting 6 less minutes per game and is a 19 year old leading the league in goals this season and since he’s entered the league as well, do you think Laines points go up or down if he has 6 more minutes per game by the time he is 23 like Barkov?

 

[cgf]

Well consisency is not always linear, what makes you think Barkov will keep playing at his pace he has this year? Nothing is to be expected of either guy but you can’t take the context out of the window, Laine is getting 6 less minutes per game and is a 19 year old leading the league in goals this season and since he’s entered the league as well, do you think Laines points go up or down if he has 6 more minutes per game by the time he is 23 like Barkov?

If he was also given the defensive responsibilities Barkov has, that are why he plays 6 more minutes a game? Then Laine's points would obviously go down.

 

[bert]

Sasha Barkov first season; 54 games 8+16 = 24
Sasha Barkov second season; 71 games 16+20 = 44

Patrik Laine first season; 73 games 36+28 = 64
Patrik Laine second season; 71 games 43+25 = 68

Laine, not even close.

Its absurd that he is losing this poll. Laine is gonna score more goals than Barkov had points at the same age.

Curious how you only include Sasha's 1st two seasons as though development is linear and what Barkov did 4 years ago has much relevance on the player he has become.

Curious as to how you dont, thats the only sample size we have from Laine. You clearly have an agenda here. Its not like Laine isnt a big player either they are going to have similar trajectories.

 

[cgf]

Its absurd that he is losing this poll. Laine is gonna score more goals than Barkov had points at the same age.



Curious as to how you dont, thats the only sample size we have from Laine. You clearly have an agenda here. Its not like Laine isnt a big player either they are going to have similar trajectories.

My only agenda is to kill this meme. It's an absolute fallacy and yet it gets regurgitate here over & over again. In a year where the much-dumped-on Nathan MacKinnon is looking like a good bet to win the Hart with 10 games left, it is time for this myth to die.

We simply have no clue how Laine will develop so making definitive statements about how his trajectory will continue is asinine. Maybe he'll steadily score 10 more goals a year until he's a 100-goal scorer, or maybe he gets complacent after Winnipeg wins the cup this year and in the end this turns out to have been his peak, or (more likely) it'll be somewhere in the middle and he may face downs as well as ups as he continues to grow into the premier goal scorer of his generation that most expect.

What we do know is that Barkov has taken those consistent steps to become the dominant player that Laine is expected to become by most...myself included...that much is certain. But you can't just compare their 1st two years & assume that Laine's going to evolve the same way as Sasha did because that isn't certain.

PS I'm an avs fan, so I have no horse in this race. I love Mikko & his chemistry with MacK is absolutely beautiful, but he doesn't deserve to win this poll. I love Barkov from his draft year when we were debating MacKinnon v Sasha on our boards. And until Dallas got Radulov (my favorite player), the Jets were my second favorite non-Colorado central division team...I live in Chicago, so they are my favorite non-Avs team because of how many of my friends they turned into hockey fans...because I love Wheeler, Little & Buff and for a handful of years it seemed like they drafted all of my favorite prospects (morrissey, connor, roslovic, etc.).

I just hate this assumption that development is linear, which underpins so many posts on this board.

 

[cneely]

My only agenda is to kill this meme. It's an absolute fallacy and yet it gets regurgitate here over & over again. In a year where the much-dumped-on Nathan MacKinnon is looking like a good bet to win the Hart with 10 games left, it is time for this myth to die.

We simply have no clue how Laine will develop so making definitive statements about how his trajectory will continue is asinine. Maybe he'll steadily score 10 more goals a year until he's a 100-goal scorer, or maybe he gets complacent after Winnipeg wins the cup this year and in the end this turns out to have been his peak, or (more likely) it'll be somewhere in the middle and he may face downs as well as ups as he continues to grow into the premier goal scorer of his generation that most expect.

What we do know is that Barkov has taken those consistent steps to become the dominant player that Laine is expected to become by most...myself included...that much is certain. But you can't just compare their 1st two years & assume that Laine's going to evolve the same way as Sasha did because that isn't certain.

PS I'm an avs fan, so I have no horse in this race. I love Mikko & his chemistry with MacK is absolutely beautiful, but he doesn't deserve to win this poll. I love Barkov from his draft year when we were debating MacKinnon v Sasha on our boards. And until Dallas got Radulov (my favorite player), the Jets were my second favorite non-Colorado central division team...I live in Chicago, so they are my favorite non-Avs team because of how many of my friends they turned into hockey fans...because I love Wheeler, Little & Buff and for a handful of years it seemed like they drafted all of my favorite prospects (morrissey, connor, roslovic, etc.).

I just hate this assumption that development is linear, which underpins so many posts on this board.

I understand what you're saying, but there is certainly a lot of evidence to support projected improvement for teenagers in the NHL. For every Sergei Samsonov or Jeff Skinner, there are 20 kids like Scheifele who continue to improve into their mid 20's.

 

[cgf]

I understand what you're saying, but there is certainly a lot of evidence to support projected improvement for teenagers in the NHL. For every Sergei Samsonov or Jeff Skinner, there are 20 kids like Scheifele who continue to improve into their mid 20's.

For sure, my complaint is more with the assumption that development is always 1 to 1, so that if player A did better at 18 & 19 he's assumed to do just as much better at 20 & 21 even if player B took a huge step at 20 that changed their trajectory.

To bring this back on topic: I'm not saying that Laine has peaked, or even that he won't get much better still...somehow...I'm just saying that we don't know how that development will go with him, so we don't know how rapidly he'll make further steps and we don't know quite how big each of those steps will be. He could jump 20 goals next season & plateau, instead seeing most of his progress coming by way of rounding out his defensive game and continuing to improve that skating, which has already made such great strides. Or he could steadily score a few more goals while becoming a little better against the puck each season. He could struggle with injuries, lose his confidence and have a rough year that cause him to take a step back before blowing up the following year.

The only reason we can talk about these things with Barkov's development is that they have already happened for Sasha and we are looking back on things that we do know for certain.

I fully agree that Laine almost certainly will get even better than he already is...which is under-rated by people who say he's just a shot...and I even agree that he's likely to end up the premier goalscorer of his generation...though Svech may have some things to say about that if ends up with a team that wants him to focus more on finishing chances than creating them. I just really hate those "if we only look at player A's first X-number of years, his totals (not even /game #s) are less impressive than player B's. So it's obvious that player B will be better" posts.


It's probably PTSD from all of the MacKinnon bashing over the past 3 years

 

[Hokinaittii]

Impossible to choose from between Barkov and Laine.

Barkov at 22 is already a top-10 center in the league and we all know how necessary it is for a team to have solid #1 center before anything else. Laine on the other hand has such a high offensive ceiling that he could be one of the few guys who can challenge McDavid in Art Ross in the future.