Barkov vs Eichel vs Matthews vs Draisaitl

[viper0220]

Who do you having going forward?

How do you rank them from 1-4 going forward? Please use the comment section for this.

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[mitchthemitch]

Matthews
Eichel
Barkov & Draisaitl

 

[XXIV97]

Barkov
The rest of them are the same

 

[mitchthemitch]

I have Matthews and Draisaitl first because they both hit 70 points in their third season.
Eichel is next cause he hit it in his fourth season.
Barkov and Mackinnon are worse than all of them because they hit it in their fifth season.

 

[viper0220]

Barkov
The rest of them are the same

Why do you say that.

 

[XXIV97]

Why do you say that.

Barkov is PPG + Selke

Draisaitl, Matthews and Eichel are just PPG players

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Barkov is PPG + Selke

Draisaitl, Matthews and Eichel are just PPG players

The Selke is a reputation based award. If it were based entirely on merit, Barkov wouldn’t be in the discussion.

 

[XXIV97]

The Selke is a reputation based award. If it were based entirely on merit, Barkov wouldn’t be in the discussion.

In your opinion, who would be in the conversation?

The Selke is a reputation based award since a player cannot win it in their first couple of seasons. However, it takes years of marvelous defensive play to win the award.

 

[Llamamoto]

Draisaitl
Barkov
Eichel/Matthews

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

In your opinion, who would be in the conversation?

The Selke is a reputation based award since a player cannot win it in their first couple of seasons. However, it takes years of marvelous defensive play to win the award.

This season, my top-3 would be Stone, Crosby, and ROR in that order with an honorable mention to Sean Couturier. Patrice Bergeron hasn’t played quite enough or I would have him up there as well.

 

[Machinehead]

The Selke is a reputation based award. If it were based entirely on merit, Barkov wouldn’t be in the discussion.

Right now, off the top of my head, he's 4th out of this group in positively impacting his team when he hits the ice.

I have them:

Matthews
Draisaitl
Barkov
Eichel

2-4 might change; Matthews is far and away the best player here.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Right now, off the top of my head, he's 4th out of this group in positively impacting his team when he hits the ice.

I have them:

Matthews
Draisaitl
Barkov
Eichel

2-4 might change; Matthews is far and away the best player here.

Based on what?

 

[snipes]

Barkov is PPG + Selke

Draisaitl, Matthews and Eichel are just PPG players

Kind of disengenous to say just PPG players. Drai clearly is distinguishable from the others.

Draisaitl is at 1.30 PPG this year and closing in on 100 points. 2nd in goals plus 4th in points and PPG. Also a +7 on a team with -32 goal differential.

Barkov is at 1.14 PPG, which is 16th for PPG. -11 on a team with -19 goal differential.

Matthews is at 1.13 PPG, which is 18th for PPG. -4 on a team with +42 goal differential.

Eichel is 1.06 PPG, which is 24th for PPG. -11 on a team with -44 goal differential.

 

[Machinehead]

Based on what?

Both at even strength and in all situations, he's on a different level as a producer, and I don't think any of the four are worth building a statue over defensively.

 

[FinlandPanther]

Both at even strength and in all situations, he's on a different level as a producer, and I don't think any of the four are worth building a statue over defensively.

Well that's why your little calculator should be traded for a TV so you can watch the games. Barkov is the best defensively and its not even close.

 

[snipes]

Both at even strength and in all situations, he's on a different level as a producer, and I don't think any of the four are worth building a statue over defensively.

Not as a playmaker he sure isn’t.

His assist numbers for a top level centre are severely lacking.

 

[Machinehead]

Well that's why your little calculator should be traded for a TV so you can watch the games. Barkov is the best defensively and its not even close.

Ok, so then how would your tv explain the Panthers giving up more goals when he's on the ice than when he's not on the ice?

 

[Machinehead]

Not as a playmaker he sure isn’t.

His assist numbers for a top level centre are severely lacking.

I mean, sure, that's a valid observation regarding Matthews, but he's so far ahead of the other three in p/60 (both at 5v5 and all situations) that I don't really care how he got there.

 

[Machinehead]

Draisaitl is closing in on 100 points and he still doesn't have a better p/60 than Matthews just this year!

I think Draisaitl is a good player but he has probably the easiest job in the NHL and in 1,600+ minutes without McDavid his impacts are pretty awful. Until he can carry the load, he's a cut below the true elite players in the NHL. Matthews is one of those.

 

[snipes]

I mean, sure, that's a valid observation regarding Matthews, but he's so far ahead of the other three in p/60 (both at 5v5 and all situations) that I don't really care how he got there.

Andrew Shaw is 6th in p/60 ahead of McDavid.

Tatar is 8th and Brett Connolly is 15th.

If p/60 is your sole piece of evidence you’re relying on, you’re going to reach conclusions you shouldn’t.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Both at even strength and in all situations, he's on a different level as a producer, and I don't think any of the four are worth building a statue over defensively.

Since 2016-2017, Draisaitl is at 2.7 ESP and Matthews is at 2.77. Then you look at the aggregate, where Matthews can't stay healthy and doesn't play as many minutes, and Draisaitl has 24 more even strength points. That's 8 more even strength points per season for Draisaitl.

What puts him on a different level than Draisaitl as an even strength producer?

 

[Ctrain2k]

Since 2016-2017, Draisaitl is at 2.7 ESP and Matthews is at 2.77. Then you look at the aggregate, where Matthews can't stay healthy and doesn't play as many minutes, and Draisaitl has 24 more even strength points. That's 8 more even strength points per season for Draisaitl.

What puts him on a different level than Draisaitl as an even strength producer?

I’m calling it right now “blah blah blah McDavid blah blah blah” . When they know they’re wrong this is all they can physically say.

 

[Machinehead]

Andrew Shaw is 6th in p/60 ahead of McDavid.

Tatar is 8th and Brett Connolly is 15th.

If p/60 is your sole piece of evidence you’re relying on, you’re going to reach conclusions you shouldn’t.

It can be weird when comparing players who don't play the same amount of minutes, especially players who don't play a lot at all, sure.

Matthews and Draisaitl are similarly used players.

And there's always a couple of outliers every season in p/60 but then they go away. Matthews and Draisaitl have been in the top 20 over the course of three years. They're not outliers.

Since 2016-2017, Draisaitl is at 2.7 ESP and Matthews is at 2.77. Then you look at the aggregate, where Matthews can't stay healthy and doesn't play as many minutes, and Draisaitl has 24 more even strength points. That's 8 more even strength points per season for Draisaitl.

What puts him on a different level than Draisaitl as an even strength producer?

On corsica, I'm seeinng Draisatl at 2.31 (18th) and Matthews at 2.57 (5th) since 2016-17.

Also consider that Matthews was a teenager for most of that and Draisaitl plays with McDavid.

 

[Machinehead]

I’m calling it right now “blah blah blah McDavid blah blah blah” . When they know they’re wrong this is all they can physically say.

His numbers with and without McDavid can't just be ignored. There's a massive difference.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Andrew Shaw is 6th in p/60 ahead of McDavid.

Tatar is 8th and Brett Connolly is 15th.

If p/60 is your sole piece of evidence you’re relying on, you’re going to reach conclusions you shouldn’t.

I think that this season, P/60 is going to be especially unflattering to Oilers players because Hitchock is playing them so damn frequently. That does two things to hurt their P/60. One, it exhausts them and diminishes their per-minute effectiveness. Two, it puts them in more situations than just the most optimal situations for scoring points. This has also really hurt them in other areas of the ice as well.

P/60 is a good stat, but it's very favorable to players who play limited minutes and ride high shooting percentages. Brett Connolly, for example, is below 1000 minutes, shooting 16.81% SH with a 11.27% oiSH. All 5-on-5. Andrew Shaw has missed time with injury. It's better for comparing two players like Matthews and Draisaitl who are top forwards on their teams over multiple seasons but still not perfect.

Draisaitl is closing in on 100 points and he still doesn't have a better p/60 than Matthews just this year!

I think Draisaitl is a good player but he has probably the easiest job in the NHL and in 1,600+ minutes without McDavid his impacts are pretty awful. Until he can carry the load, he's a cut below the true elite players in the NHL. Matthews is one of those.

If you've got that kind of standard on the term "true elite player" and say Draisaitl doesn't make the cut based on those factors, then I don't see how Matthews makes the cut.

Yes, Draisaitl's results at center are pathetic. But his results at winger are top notch. Over the past 3 seasons, his ESP/60 in minutes with McDavid is 3.1 which is 2nd to only McDavid and tied with Kucherov. (Last time I checked. Things might have changed.)