Bad Team Scorers.

seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
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Would Tyler Bozak qualify as a bad team scorer?

He doesn't score enough to really even count. He has never been close to the league leaders in any category. He was never really "the best of a bad bunch" and might not have even been one of his team's top 4 forwards, even when they were terrible.

In the 2012 season he apparently scored less than a replacement level player should have scored playing all season at ES and on the PP with Kessel and Lupul.

He's decent but I think if/when the Leafs win the cup it will either be with him not there, or on the 4th line.
 

ShelbyZ

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Apr 8, 2015
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Eric Daze.

His first 3 seasons were in the last 3 of the Hawks 28 year playoff streak. Then in his next 7 seasons, the Hawks missed the playoffs for all but one embarrassing 1st round exit while Daze scored at a 30+ goal per year pace (when he was healthy). Then injuries forced him to retire.
 

Canadiens1958

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Nov 30, 2007
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From the O6 era, post expansion period.

Andy Bathgate- some honours and ASTs but basically disappeared if the Rangers made the playoffs, weak defensively, Bronco Horvath.

Mickey Redmond, Guy Charron,Garry Ungar, Jean Pronovost, Rick Kehoe, Ivan Boldirev, Guy Chouinard.
 

ShelbyZ

Registered User
Apr 8, 2015
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Shane Doan

The Jet-yotes made the playoffs in his first 4 seasons, but at that point he wasn't really a scorer yet. Then in 16 seasons as a regular 20+ goal scorer, the Coyotes only made the playoffs in 5 of those seasons, making it past the 1st round once...
 

The Pale King

Go easy on those Mango Giapanes brother...
Sep 24, 2011
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Bob MacMillan, Eric Vail, John Anderson, Wilf Paiement if he hasn't been mentioned. Paul Gardner was close to a PPG for his short career and only played in a handful of playoff games. Rick Kehoe. Tons of guys like this.

And yeah, Whitney was certainly on track to be a classic bad team scorer but after that run with the Canes in 06 he really turned things around.
 

VanIslander

A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Sep 4, 2004
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No one has mentioned the first names that come to mind. I'll start with the elephant in the room:

MATS SUNDIN ( 94 points, his highest ever in Toronto, when the nearest point total was 60 by the 2nd line center he did not play with regularly; 49 Clark, 41 Berezin). The team finished 6th in their own division and far from the playoffs.

matssundin13_leafs.jpg


Imagine if Mats had played with an Orr, Coffey, Kurri, Ovechkin, heck even a Hossa, St. Louis, Iginla or Robitaille. (He and Belfour were among the three stars of so, so many games. Gawd the Leafs sucked around him for years. Yushkevich helped a bit but only defensively, and Sundin carried so many games all by himself. He should have aptly lost four or five Hart trophy finalist seasons (but the Leafs were too bad for that). He was like Marcel Dionne but in a worse position as his wingers never were as good.
 
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GlitchMarner

Typical malevolent, devious & vile Maple Leafs fan
Jul 21, 2017
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Since the post is meant to be complimentary rather than critical, I won't object, VI... haha...

Oh, and Sundin did score 114 points once with QUE.
 

Iron Mike Sharpe

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Dec 6, 2017
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What are some examples of bad team scorers? I.E people on perennial non playoff or expansion teams that had good seasons? To go in depth, I mean players who put up good numbers on bad teams with good ice time, but also could not crack a winning team or be a premier scorer on a winning team.

It seems most of the posters on this thread are ignoring your criteria, as most of the players mentioned above had the ability to produce as a first or second liner on other NHL teams.

One who comes to mind who might fit your criteria is former Canuck "Spaceman" Ron Sedlbauer. The enigmatic 6'3" shoot first proto-power forward was known to be inconsistent from game to game with major defensive & mental lapses that saw him being sent to the CHL every season in his first four years despite showing offensive potential (19, 18, 18 goals in 76, 77 & 78). In the 78-79 season playing left wing on the Canucks top line with Chris Oddleifson & Hilliard Graves, he scored 40 goals & 56 points to lead the Canucks in both categories, setting a Canucks record for goals, with 15 coming on the power play, another Canucks record. The next season he was traded to the Hawks in November for spare parts, but he floundered in Chicago, & was shipped off to the Leafs a year later. He failed to crack the Leafs lineup in 81-82, so he spent the entire season playing for Cincinnati in the CHL, where he clocked in at only 9th in team scoring in 73 games. He was 23 when he potted 40 goals, 25 when he played his last NHL game, 26 when he retired from the sport.

In 74-75, in his only full NHL season, Dave Hrechkosy led the California Golden Seals in goals with 29, & came in third in points with 43 (the two leading scorers were tied with 45 points each). He was traded to St. Louis midway through the next season, but only ended up playing in 28 games for the Blues over the next two seasons, where he spent most of his time with their affiliate in Salt Lake City. He played his last NHL game in 1977 at age 24, & was finished with pro hockey by 1980.
 

Ensane

EL GUAPO
Mar 2, 2002
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It seems most of the posters on this thread are ignoring your criteria, as most of the players mentioned above had the ability to produce as a first or second liner on other NHL teams.
In fairness, OP edited his post to clarify the criteria today. The original thread predates your "join" date. ;)
 

Doctor Coffin

This may hurt a bit...
May 23, 2013
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The best-ever case of big scorer on bad-ish team must be Marcel Dionne on both the mid-70s Wings and of course the Kings (though they had one good season, 1980-81).

This is the guy that comes to mind for me, too.

Also, Doug and Max Bentley.

And no slight or shame is intended in referring to these guys as "bad team scorers," they just happened to spend a good deal of their careers on bad teams.
 

Jets4Life

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Dec 25, 2003
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Dale Hawerchuk comes to mind. Led his teams in scoring most years, but the teams he played with almost always got knocked out in the first round. It was not until his final season, when he played for the Flyers in 97' did he have a long playoff run.

For the first four years of his NHL career (before the Lindros trade), Joe Sakic carried the last place Quebec Nordiques on his back
 
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The Panther

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Dale Hawerchuk comes to mind. Led his teams in scoring most years, but the teams he played with almost always got knocked out in the first round. It was not until his final season, when he played for the Flyers in 97' did he have a long playoff run.
That's right, but were Hawerchuk's teams really that bad? Or did they just under-achieve in the playoffs?

We'll give his Jets a 'pass' for 1982, 1983, and 1984 since they were just building up the team (from one of the worst NHL seasons in history in 1980-81) and Hawerchuk was just a kid. But in 1984-85 the Jets became a strong team, and went out to Edmonton in the second round. Team regressed in '86 and lost in first round. Not bad in '87, but again swept in round two. First-round in '88. Missed playoffs in '89. Blew a 3-1 series lead to lose in first round in '90. Then Hawerchuk went to Buffalo. Never a great team, but certainly competitive with lots of talent at forward. Lost in first round in '91. Lost in first round in '92. Swept in second round in '93. Lost first round in '94. Lost first round in '95. Then, he went to Philly, a team on the rise where he could be a #2 or #3 center... and lost in the second round.

Finally, in 1997, after almost 16 years in the NHL, he played his first game past the second round (in three games in the Finals, he was scoreless and -3 before being creamed by Kovalchuk. Career over.

I mean, I don't judge him too harshly for being on teams that didn't advance against some powerhouses, but it's not like he was on a sad-sack team every year (which someone like Marcel Dionne almost was). He played on several competitive teams that just never did anything... but maybe just (bad) luck of the draw, I dunno.
 

Jets4Life

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I mean, I don't judge him too harshly for being on teams that didn't advance against some powerhouses, but it's not like he was on a sad-sack team every year (which someone like Marcel Dionne almost was). He played on several competitive teams that just never did anything... but maybe just (bad) luck of the draw, I dunno.

How different were the Kings of the mid 70s-80s and the Jets of the 80s? There is not much difference if you factor in actual winning %. The Dionne led Kings teams (75-88) had 4 winning seasons. The Hawerchuk led Jets teams (1981-90) only had 3 winning seasons. The teams qualified for the playoffs at roughly the same rate. The Sabres were a 0.500% teams during Hawerchuk's time there. Unfortunately, his career was cut short at 34, due to a degenerative hip, and since the 1995 lockout, had become a shell of his former self for the Flyers run to the Cup.
 

Canadiens1958

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That's right, but were Hawerchuk's teams really that bad? Or did they just under-achieve in the playoffs?

Really no difference. Unless you can show that bad teams that constantly over-achieve in the playoffs actually exist.

From time to time a weak or bad RS team might steal a few playoff rounds during a given year. But not annually.
 

trentmccleary

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Mar 2, 2002
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Alfie-Ville
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Chris Kontos
Bob Kudelski
Terry Yake
The Polish Prince
Miro Satan (made the PO's a couple time because of Hasek)
Norm MacIver
Dick Tarnstrom
Petr Nedved
Jason Allison
Jozef Stumpel
Arnson, Calder, Bell
Viktor Kozlov
 

Dissonance Jr

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Oct 6, 2017
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This definition makes for a more fascinating topic, but also a more difficult challenge to isolate such players. A starting point might be for players who scored a ton, but have a low amount of playoff games, and then when they played for playoff-calibre teams, immediately saw a drop in production.

That said, I don't think Whitney falls into this category. He was a ~PPG player (i.e., above his historical average) on 3 very good Hurricanes squads--one of which won the cup, and another made it to the conference finals, and was the leading scorer on a Coyotes team that also went deep.

Yeah, a few of the players being named in this thread were simply good scorers who happened to be on bad teams and never got a chance to shine. Ron Francis was considered a "bad team scorer" before getting traded to Pittsburgh.

I think Geoff Sanderson best fits the profile here. He put up some huge numbers on some very bad Hartford teams in the early '90s. Then in 1998 he got traded to a good Sabres team that made the playoffs three years in a row (and went to the Finals in '99) — and he was nothing more than a supporting player for them. His ice time dropped, he had to tighten up his defensive game, and his numbers cratered.

The next year he gets picked by the expansion Blue Jackets and his stats soar again — was a top-20 goal scorer in the league for two of his first three years there.
 
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GlitchMarner

Typical malevolent, devious & vile Maple Leafs fan
Jul 21, 2017
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He was never a big scorer, but Eric Belanger was a staple for a while on the LA Kings when the team was consistently missing the playoffs. He was traded to the Thrashers before the '07 playoffs and had one point in four playoff games with ATL (to go along with a -6 rating). He had zero points in six playoff games for the Wild in 2008. The Caps acquired him in 2010 and he scored one point in seven playoff games for them. He had zero points in four playoff games with PHO in 2012. In total, he had two goals, five assists (and a -13 rating) in 41 playoff games in his career. One of his two career playoff goals was an OT winner against Detroit.

Another regular on the pre-Cup winning Kings was Derek Armstrong. He played at least 56 games in the NHL every season from '03-'09 and scored between 35 and 44 points every season from '03-'08 for LA and the Kings missed the playoffs in every season that he played for the team. He played in 477 regular season games in the NHL but never played a single playoff games in his career.
 
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brachyrynchos

Registered User
Apr 10, 2017
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Andrew Cassels? He kinda goes hand in hand with Geoff Sanderson. Cassels only appeared in the playoffs 3 times over his 16 year NHL career, more of a playmaker, but got 20+ goals a few times.
 

Howie Hodge

Zombie Woof
Sep 16, 2017
4,427
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Buffalo, NY
The list of great goalies on bad teams starts with Gilles Meloche...

Gilles Meloche could have been a Sabre in 1974-1975. Punch Imlach later lamented he should have acquired him, and had a potential deal in place.

I still feel Buffalo was better than were The Flyers that year - sans goaltending. Crozier was shot, and Desjardins had a melt down.

Punch never sad who. It was Peter McNabb and Lee Fogolin, btw....

Coulda, woulda, shoulda!!
 
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