Bad look for Evan Bouchard...ducks a hit and controller disconnects

[Steven Toast]

It's really hard to argue that a centre playing the best defense on the play is equivalent to a defencemen playing no defense.

That was a downright horrible sequence by Matthews. Full stop. Doesn't mean hes a bad defensive player though. Single plays are single plays.

Also a bad goal on a third string goalie, but that's why he's a third string goalie. Martin Jones needs to realize he's allowed to stand up to see where the puck is going.

It was a terrible screen by Matthews, didn't allow his goalie to see the puck, and then Matthews slipped out of the way right as the shot came by.

You are seriously defending Matthews play of this sequence? Lol.

 

[Divine]

That was a downright horrible sequence by Matthews. Full stop. Doesn't mean hes a bad defensive player though. Single plays are single plays.

It was a terrible screen by Matthews, didn't allow his goalie to see the puck, and then Matthews slipped out of the way right as the shot came by.

You are seriously defending Matthews play of this sequence? Lol.

I'm not defending Matthews defence, I'm saying he was the best defender in the play and he's the centre.

Bouchard played 0 defence and went out of his way to avoid playing defence. I don't see how they're comparable.

You can argue Matthews was trying and played it poorly because he's not a defender. Where was Bouchard's effort as a defenceman?

Goalies are allowed to stand up. I think if Martin Jones realized he was 6'5 he wouldn't be a third string goalie. You're supposed to look over/around screens, not give up and pray.

 

[Kamus]

He’s soft. He lacks urgency in his game. At times it makes him look clueless and lazy while other times he looks poised and confident typically in the offensive zone

He does pair well with Ekholm. He has had decent stretches of quality D and with what he brings offensively he is easily a net positive player but you ll have to eat those mistakes as a team fairly frequently

I wouldn't be upset if he priced himself out of Edmonton and would have zero issues with him back at a fair price but if he is looking for Norris type money I'd pass

This is pretty accurate as an Oilers fan.

The only thing is then we need to replace him, which is tough sometimes as Edmonton is not a hugely attractive market

 

[Breakers]

Nylander struggled with with this immensely through the earlier part of his career, he had position and was closest to possession but would give it up in the corner.

I think bouchard should fix this as time goes on, or you hope.
but he did something similar to Mackinnon on that OT goal a few day earlier. Was just sooo casual against an elite player and the puck was in the back of the net 2 seconds later.

Just get a body on him to throw off his stride.
Giving each elite player a free release is insane, they are too good.

 

[Soundwave]

Yeah, that could be workable but I don't think that's a monster return. Parayko isn't a big asset with his play the last 2 seasons.

That said, teams will not just focus on his PPG like you think they will. Teams know that players put up more points playing with McDavid. GM's aren't just going to ignore what happened to Tyson's Barrie's stats the moment he got traded - now he's zero offense and zero defence. Heck, Nashville was trying to trade Barrie this year and told him to find a team and no one wanted him.

That's the risk with Bouchard unless he gets better defensively and teams know that. He won't be traded like he's Roman Josi/Cale Makar just because he's putting up PPG numbers playing with McDavid.

No disrespect to Tyson Barrie but he's never been anywhere near as good as Evan Bouchard.

4th season for both of them

Barrie: 78GP, 13G, 36A, 49 Pts -16

Bouchard: 68GP, 15G, 54A, 69 Pts, +26

If you want to pro-rate to 78GP for Bouchard, the comparison gets a lot worse for Barrie.

And Barrie did return a very significant piece for the Avs one Cup win (Kadri) when they acquired him, Kadri was a two time 30+ goal scoring center who played with an edge, that's not exactly a token return.

 

[Steven Toast]

I'm not defending Matthews, I'm saying he was the best defender in the play and he's the centre.

Bouchard played 0 defence and went out of his way to avoid playing defence. I don't see how they're comparable.

You can argue Matthews was trying and played it poorly because he's not a defender. Where was Bouchard's effort as a defenceman?

Goalies are allowed to stand up. I think if Martin Jones realized he was 6'5 he wouldn't be a third string goalie.

He made more errors on that play than the rest of his teammates combined.

Hes the centre, as in the most defensively responsible forward on the ice.

He made several key errors leading to the GWG with 3 min left.

And you know what? A bad defensive play doesnt mean hes a bad defensive player.

You need to look at more than one play/game when evaluating a player. Bouchards body of work this year shows hes one of the best young defenseman in the game. One bad game doesnt change this.

 

[Divine]

No disrespect to Tyson Barrie but he's never been anywhere near as good as Evan Bouchard.

4th season for both of them

Barrie: 78GP, 13G, 36A, 49 Pts -16

Bouchard: 68GP, 15G, 54A, 69 Pts, +26

If you want to pro-rate to 78GP for Bouchard, the comparison gets a lot worse for Barrie.

And Barrie did return a very significant piece for the Avs one Cup win (Kadri).

I think Bouchard is better offensively than Barrie and similar defensively.

I don't think anyone would consider the Kadri for Barrie trade a fair deal (although it wasn't a 1 for 1). It may be Dubas' worst trade in his career as a second year GM. Sure, if the Oilers can fleece a team like that maybe they can get a good return.

He made more errors on that play than the rest of his teammates combined.

Hes the centre, as in the most defensively responsible forward on the ice.

He made several key errors leading to the GWG with 3 min left.

And you know what? A bad defensive play doesnt mean hes a bad defensive player.

You need to look at more than one play/game when evaluating a player. Bouchards body of work this year shows hes one of the best young defenseman in the game. One bad game doesnt change this.

Here's the difference:

Matthews was trying on that play.
Bouchard was not trying on his play.

I get that you're arguing that Matthews should be a better defender than Bouchard, and I agree, but where's the effort from Bouchard? He was the first man to the puck and never touched it or covered a player.

It's one thing to try and play it poorly, it happens, it's a fast game. Bouchard didn't try at all. Also, this wasn't the only bad play that led to a goal by Bouchard, there were other in the same game.

 

[Soundwave]

I think Bouchard is better offensively than Barrie and similar defensively.

I don't think anyone would consider the Kadri for Barrie trade a fair deal (although it wasn't a 1 for 1). It may be Dubas' worst trade in his career as a second year GM. Sure, if the Oilers can fleece a team like that maybe they can get a good return.

I think John Carlson is the more relevant comparable, he's a guy who puts up big numbers but and good plus/minus generally but can also have defensive lapses now and again.

It doesn't matter if now in hindsight you want to say Kadri for Barrie wasn't fair. It happened, it shows offensive right D can have big value on the trade market, just a matter of who your GM is.

 

[Steven Toast]

Here's the difference:

Matthews was trying on that play.
Bouchard was not trying on his play.

Nope, both players had poor low efforts on their respective plays.

And single plays are a poor way to evaluate an NHLers value.

 

[Divine]

I think John Carlson is the more relevant comparable, he's a guy who puts up big numbers but and good plus/minus generally but can also have defensive lapses now and again.

It doesn't matter if now in hindsight you want to say Kadri for Barrie wasn't fair. It happened, it shows offensive right D can have big value on the trade market, just a matter of who your GM is.

They do have value, but they're not as valuable if they're lacking defensively.

Also, Bouchard is a tough player to trade for. Next year, he would be a rental. He would have arbitration rights and his numbers do look great on paper. Bouchard will have less value if his ask is 9M+ which would appear to be the case. Even his arbitration number comes pretty high given his offensive output. His trade value as a rental will directly correlate to his next contract.

Nope, both players had poor low efforts on their respective plays.

And single plays are a poor way to evaluate an NHLers value.

One player attempted to cover a player. The other player did not. Guess which one plays forward and which one plays defence?

 

[Soundwave]

They do have value, but they're not as valuable if they're lacking defensively.

Also, Bouchard is a tough player to trade for. Next year, he would be a rental. He would have arbitration rights and his numbers do look great on paper. Bouchard will have less value if his ask is 9M+ which would appear to be the case. Even his arbitration number comes pretty high given his offensive output. His trade value as a rental will directly correlate to his next contract.



One player attempted to cover a player. The other player did not. Guess which one plays forward and which one plays defence?

There will be a lot of teams that have cap space, the cap could very well be $7-8 million higher in two years time. Even 9 million is not going to be what 9 million has been during the COVID salary freeze era.

Also funny to look back at the Kadri/Barrie trade thread and how many Leafs fans and "experts" were saying Dubas took Sakic to the cleaners, lol.

 

[pockets321]

I love hot takes by posters who really don't have a clue.

-2 is not typical. He's a +26 on the season.
He has 9 goals and 39 points at even strength so he doesn't just pile up points on the PP.

Yeah he's not great defensively and can be mistake prone at times but he's not as bad as you make it out to be but.... keep on keeping on I guess.


Another clueless take.

The only thing clueless are you Oiler fans that think he's a Norris candidate. Have fun with a 9 million dollar defenseman that can't play defense,

 

[Steven Toast]

One player attempted to cover a player. The other player did not. Guess which one plays forward and which one plays defence?

Matthews did not attempt to cover a player, he left McDavid alone at the blue paint and screened his goalie. Before this he lost a board battle.

And since you are being deliberately obtuse I will state it again. Single bad plays are a very poor way to evaluate a players value.

 

[Divine]

There will be a lot of teams that have cap space, the cap could very well be $7-8 million higher in two years time. Even 9 million is not going to be what 9 million has been during the COVID salary freeze era.

Also funny to look back at the Kadri/Barrie trade thread and how many Leafs fans and "experts" were saying Dubas took Sakic to the cleaners, lol.

To be fair, on paper that trade didn't look bad for the Leafs. Kerfoot had 10 less points than Kadri, was a younger and cheaper centre and was added to Barrie.

The problem is we're looking at the trade in hindsight and saying Bouchard should get a Kadri like player - but in hindsight Dubas wouldn't make that trade.

Matthews did not attempt to cover a player, he left McDavid alone at the blue paint and screened his goalie. Before this he lost a board battle.

Matthews literally had the forwards stick tied up forcing him to spin and not allowing a tip. How is that not covering a player?

If you want to see an example of not covering a player, please look at the first post in this thread.

 

[Steven Toast]

To be fair, on paper that trade didn't look bad for the Leafs. Kerfoot had 10 less points than Kadri, was younger and cheaper and was added to Barrie.

The problem is we're looking at the trade in hindsight and saying Bouchard should get a Kadri like player - but in hindsight Dubas wouldn't make that trade.



Matthews literally had the forwards stick tied up forcing him to spin and not allowing a tip. How is that not covering a player?

If you want to see an example of not covering a player, please look at the first post in this thread.

You want to defend Matthews play there fine, I can't stop you. Again the larger point that you complete miss/ignore is that it is dumb to use single plays when evaluating a player.

 

[CN8]

He reminds me a lot of Chabot in Ottawa. Wows you at both ends of the ice

 

[AvroArrow]

You're right. McDavid should only be on the ice by himself. That way we can expose all these guys who manipulate the coaching staff into putting them on the ice with him at the same time.

There's people calling him a Norris candidate, when it's painfully obvious where his point totals are coming from. Tyson Barrie 2.0 ?

 

[Soundwave]

There's people calling him a Norris candidate, when it's painfully obvious where his point totals are coming from. Tyson Barrie 2.0 ?

He's more Jon Carlsson than Tyson Barrie. Barrie only really had huge numbers with McDavid that one year in the Canadian division playing against soft comp, Bouchard would score a lot of points on any half way good offensive team, don't kid yourself.

A lot of over reaction here too over one nothing regular season, the Oilers tend to play like crap in Toronto. 11-12 players are from Southern Ontario, they play in Toronto once a year, lots of family/friends obligations likely when they come into town.

It was clear as day when they had 2 PPs to start the game and barely generated a scoring chance that they weren't ready to play this game at all. Will happen to every team over the course of an 82 game season.

 

[McShogun99]

Just shows how good Ekholm is to be over +60 during his time in Edmonton while being paired with Bouchard.

 

[Soundwave]

Just shows how good Ekholm is to be over +60 during his time in Edmonton while being paired with Bouchard.

Maybe he should be in the Norris discussion then? lol. +60 (would that be no.1 in the league?), since adding him the Oilers have the 2nd best record in the NHL.

 

[McShogun99]

Maybe he should be in the Norris discussion then? lol. +60 (would that be no.1 in the league?), since adding him the Oilers have the 2nd best record in the NHL.

He definitely should be but the voters love voting for Dmen that can get points. The Norris is more like an Art Ross for Dmen over who is actually the actual best overall.

 

[Soundwave]

+60 over about a calendar year for Ekholm is f***ing bonkers, lol.

 

[phrenssoa]

Bouchard and Ekholm are by far the best defensive pairing I’ve seen in my time as an Oilers fan. They had one bad game recently. I’m not overly concerned.

 

[Stephen]

Take the good with the bad, it's not like he's proclaiming himself the next Alex Pietrangelo.

 

[Steven Toast]

I mean ya... you do. Like you said I creeped your profile how are you really arguing this fact?

Becuase I just scrolled through tens of dozens of my own comments to get to this from from the end of 2023:

The NHLPA.

So not sure why you are making up stuff about my activity on this website. Pretty weird...