Post-Game Talk: B2B spankings, Jets lose 7-4

[robertocarlos]

You're suggesting Mark should limit himself to just one?

Yes, he probably needs a side woman considering his team-mates.

 

[raideralex99]

The problem is the Jets did change the coach and the results are much worse under the new guy. So that should give everyone some pause that juat changing the coaching again will magically fix everything.

A Maurice student will give you the same result.

 

[jetsv2]

The problem is the Jets did change the coach and the results are much worse under the new guy. So that should give everyone some pause that juat changing the coaching again will magically fix everything.

The coach openly admitted the other night that the players are not playing the game he is telling them to play. The players have chosen to ignore this coach.

Whoever the Jets hire as coach needs to be willing to sit any player who doesn't do whatever the f*** he tells them. Enough of this every man for themselves bullshit, they need to start playing like a team.

 

[surixon]

The coach openly admitted the other night that the players are not playing the game he is telling them to play. The players have chosen to ignore this coach.

Agreed, so what makes you think they will listen to the next one? I think we definitely need a new coach but I'm not taking it as a given that a new coach is going to turn this thing around. I think other things need to happen as well.

 

[jetsv2]

Agreed, so what makes you think they will listen to the next one? I think we definitely need a new coach but I'm not taking it as a given that a new coach is going to turn this thing around. I think other things need to happen as well.

You hire a coach who isn't going to put up with it anymore. One willing to sit any bum on the team who doesn't follow his instructions, get these clowns to start playing like a team.

He doesn't need to come in to scream and yell like a Tortorella or Babcock, he just needs to set a standard of expected play and hold everyone accountable to it.

 

[bustamente]

These guys for the most part are adults screaming and yelling rarely works, ice time or lack of gets the message across quite nicely, sound objective criticism sometimes works, positive reinforcement works to an degree but stapling an athletes ass to the bench is what gets the attention the quickest. Sometimes the reaction is positive sometimes they ask for a trade.

 

[surixon]

These guys for the most part are adults screaming and yelling rarely works, ice time or lack of gets the message across quite nicely, sound objective criticism sometimes works, positive reinforcement works to an degree but stapling an athletes ass to the bench is what gets the attention the quickest. Sometimes the reaction is positive sometimes they ask for a trade.

Yup its why I don't believe the scream type will work. All these young guys have little time for hierarchies and waiting years for specific roles.

I think the biggest thing is whoever comes in is fair. He rewards players for good plays and used a largely merit based system with regards to roles and opportunities. The new coach has to hold everyone to the same standards as well.

 

[Jack7222]

These guys for the most part are adults screaming and yelling rarely works, ice time or lack of gets the message across quite nicely, sound objective criticism sometimes works, positive reinforcement works to an degree but stapling an athletes ass to the bench is what gets the attention the quickest. Sometimes the reaction is positive sometimes they ask for a trade.

That and being ready and willing to promote young hungry guys right up the lineup.

 

[LowLefty]

You hire a coach who isn't going to put up with it anymore. One willing to sit any bum on the team who doesn't follow his instructions, get these clowns to start playing like a team.

He doesn't need to come in to scream and yell like a Tortorella or Babcock, he just needs to set a standard of expected play and hold everyone accountable to it.

Sometimes players don't want to be held accountable -
I recall that game where Mo sat Scheif for 10 minutes in the third - earlier this season.
Scheif said the coach was wrong in the decision - he learned nothing.

If you have players that don't get it, you have a problem that is beyond coaching -
Players like that will impact the room - they will poison the group and separate the players
You can spend a season or seasons making your point via benching's, lectures, whatever -

And in the end, you likely have a worse problem because now you've pissed off the guys that bring it
every night. Now you potentially have players wanting out - the bad ones because they don't get it and the good ones because they are not willing to sit through a "lesson" in accountability

Sometimes a new coach isn't the answer

 

[bustamente]

That and being ready and willing to promote young hungry guys right up the lineup.

Seriously why is Heinola and Samberg not in the lineup, season is over let them play and make mistakes without fear of being yanked out of the lineup.

 

[sipowicz]

Chipman pulled some strings and got 55 that sweetheart MPIC gig. This has lessened the sulking due to low pay. Now all he needs is a gf.

Or another goat!

 

[Weezeric]

Yup its why I don't believe the scream type will work. All these young guys have little time for hierarchies and waiting years for specific roles.

I think the biggest thing is whoever comes in is fair. He rewards players for good plays and used a largely merit based system with regards to roles and opportunities. The new coach has to hold everyone to the same standards as well.

Based on merit how would you rank the wingers on this team? Who should receive more opportunity? I’d say Ehlers has a case. Anyone else? Or is it just a matter of poor winger depth?

 

[surixon]

Sometimes players don't want to be held accountable -
I recall that game where Mo sat Scheif for 10 minutes in the third - earlier this season.
Scheif said the coach was wrong in the decision - he learned nothing.

If you have players that don't get it, you have a problem that is beyond coaching -
Players like that will impact the room - they will poison the group and separate the players
You can spend a season or seasons making your point via benching's, lectures, whatever -

And in the end, you likely have a worse problem because now you've pissed off the guys that bring it
every night. Now you potentially have players wanting out - the bad ones because they don't get it and the good ones because they are not willing to sit through a "lesson" in accountability

Sometimes a new coach isn't the answer

I think this group will look much more as a team if Mark gets moved. Wheeler atleast gives an honest effort even if he's overplayed.

 

[DRW204]

Seriously why is Heinola and Samberg not in the lineup, season is over let them play and make mistakes without fear of being yanked out of the lineup.

Not 6'7 enough.

 

[Jack7222]

Seriously why is Heinola and Samberg not in the lineup, season is over let them play and make mistakes without fear of being yanked out of the lineup.

It's terrible.

Said it for years now but making lineup decisions based on some predetermined notion of "seniority" is a terrible way to run a sports organization, imo. It's just such an energy destroyer.

 

[surixon]

Based on merit how would you rank the wingers on this team? Who should receive more opportunity? I’d say Ehlers has a case. Anyone else? Or is it just a matter of poor winger depth?

Ehlers foresure has earned much better. I feel Svech has been jerked around a lot this year and has likely earned PP time over some of the dregs we've played. Being moved juat to cater to the captain early in the year despite playing well is exhibit A.

But yes with Cole injured and Paul at C our depth is fairly shallow right now.

 

[Jack7222]

Sometimes players don't want to be held accountable -
I recall that game where Mo sat Scheif for 10 minutes in the third - earlier this season.
Scheif said the coach was wrong in the decision - he learned nothing.

If you have players that don't get it, you have a problem that is beyond coaching -
Players like that will impact the room - they will poison the group and separate the players
You can spend a season or seasons making your point via benching's, lectures, whatever -

And in the end, you likely have a worse problem because now you've pissed off the guys that bring it
every night. Now you potentially have players wanting out - the bad ones because they don't get it and the good ones because they are not willing to sit through a "lesson" in accountability

Sometimes a new coach isn't the answer

The thing is you need to set the tone and the expectations right away and players respect it. You can't talk about building statues of a guy for years and giving him no accountability whatsoever then start trying to discipline him.

We never really seemed to foster much internal competition. It was more like... these are the big dogs and one day years in the future maybe you'll be like them, like it was a corporate office or something.

IMO vets should feel like a 19 year old is going to come and steal their job and the coach is going to help them do it.

Edit: from strats on the ice to player management to roster decisions i feel like our org plays scared on pretty much everything. They're overly protective of their ways and structures. I seriously can't see how you can get anywhere in sports without aggressively incorporating new energy... young players, new systems, etc

 

[surixon]

The thing is you need to set the tone and the expectations right away and players respect it. You can't talk about building statues of a guy for years and giving him no accountability whatsoever then start trying to discipline him.

That as well, after years of zero accountability you can't all of a sudden do it and expect it to work.

I also agree about lack of competition. It has been years since a young player was allowed to steal a job. Mark and Blake have had their roles no matter what.

 

[macmaroon]

Or another goat!

 

[jetsv2]

That as well, after years of zero accountability you can't all of a sudden do it and expect it to work.

I also agree about lack of competition. It has been years since a young player was allowed to steal a job. Mark and Blake have had their roles no matter what.

Yes you can, a new coach holding them accountable would be different than the current coaches trying to do it. Any player who refuses to buy in to a new coach gets moved next year.

 

[Imcanadianeh]

Not 6'7 enough.

Clearly the Jets value size in a defenseman, just look how huge Morrissey, Pionk, Schmidt and Demelo are.

 

[Ducky10]

When did we ever try boring low event hockey? This team has played man coverage D since day one and NEVER had a neutral zone system... we have always engaged the D to rush...

As for Julien, the Cdns were hot to start that season and went on a mini-losing streak - nothing compared to the ones we have seen here - and Julien was canned... I think with Helle that Julien's system would work well.

When did we ever try boring low event hockey? Since like 2018? The Jets have been super conservative on the forecheck for years. In all honesty Murat didn’t reveal some new wrinkle the Jets have been employing, some of use have been pointing it out for years. We do not engage our D in the rush or transition, other than as @surixon points, when Morrissey is unshackled with the Jets trailing late. Having our D individually rush the odd time is not akin to engaging our D. They are rarely part of the rush and they rarely jump deep or switch off in the offensive zone with any regularity. We’ve been a low to high, throw it at the net team for years, sadly with a bunch of perimeter forwards.
The main premise of playing m2m is to aggressively create turnovers and quickly transition. There was a time the Jets had the personnel to do this and this years squad should be capable of it as well. Problem is, none of the D seem to have green light to be part of that transition. The whole thing is just a dichotomy. The difficulty of m2m in todays game has been discussed many times, but it’s only one aspect of the Jets problems. Sure, they get running around in their own end a lot because of it, but so do teams who play a strong side overload or a box +1. The Jets biggest issues are in transition, wanting to be a rush team but not really committing to be a rush team, they are conservative as hell in the neutral zone and give up the blue line too easily. Much of this seems to be to protect themselves from the fact too many of their forwards, including some of the top line forwards, don’t provide any back pressure or cover for the D to either hold the offensive blue line or tight gap through the neutral zone. There is very little trust on this team to commit to playing the way they should and it seems the coaching staff enables that.

They are just a mess in so many ways.

 

[Ducky10]

Clearly the Jets value size in a defenseman, just look how huge Morrissey, Pionk, Schmidt and Demelo are.

They valued size in Stanley, no? It’s his main calling card, you can’t really deny that. You also can’t deny it helps him very little in being an effective player.
Whether the Jets routinely have that blind spot isn’t the question. They had it with Stanley and it’s manifesting itself at the moment.

 

[Imcanadianeh]

They valued size in Stanley, no? It’s his main calling card, you can’t really deny that. You also can’t deny it helps him very little in being an effective player.
Whether the Jets routinely have that blind spot isn’t the question. They had it with Stanley and it’s manifesting itself at the moment.

I don’t see why you think they value size so much in Stanley but don’t value size when it comes to their top 4 defenseman yet for some reason it’s the deciding factor for their sixth defenseman.

I’d much rather see Samberg playing over Stanley but I’m not convinced size is the deciding factor when it comes to playing Stanley over Samberg, and it’s not exactly like Samberg isn’t pretty big himself.

 

[Ducky10]

I don’t see why you think they value size so much in Stanley but don’t value size when it comes to their top 4 defenseman yet for some reason it’s the deciding factor for their sixth defenseman.

I’d much rather see Samberg playing over Stanley but I’m not convinced size is the deciding factor when it comes to playing Stanley over Samberg, and it’s not exactly like Samberg isn’t pretty big himself.

6’3 190 isn’t 6’7, 230. Samberg brings more than Stanley. The tipping point for him was aways size. Was always going to be a project they hoped would turn into a regular NHL player but his size was the big appeal. It ignored a lot of question marks as a result.