Post-Game Talk: B2B spankings, Jets lose 7-4

[sipowicz]

May I have your attention, please?
May I have your attention, please?
Will the real Sipowicz please stand up?
I repeat, will the real Sipowicz please stand up?
We're gonna have a problem here

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I don't think we need a rebuild, but I'd rather a rebuild than "leave the roster as it is and bring in a conservative coaching choice". I think we need major surgery and a skilled surgeon, not sure our org can pull it off though. A couple of roster moves are crucial to me so that we can put the current culture firmly behind us.

Unfortunately I feel our problems in how we see our roster and the kind of approach we have to the game may go deeper than a coach. Hopefully not.

If less than a rebuild and "a couple of roster moves are crucial", what are those roster moves?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I do agree that players do need to be held in check by their coaches sometimes. I don't think that necessarily has to be in the media like some coaches seem to default to, but I do think Maurice didn't do that with the top guys and Lowry also isn't doing it.

Just to add, I think it is never done well if it is done in the media. Coaches have methods available to them that don't involve showing up a player in public.

 

[None]

When did we ever try boring low event hockey? This team has played man coverage D since day one and NEVER had a neutral zone system... we have always engaged the D to rush...

Maurice clamped down on defensemen pinching and activating past the circles in 18-19. That was also when they started preaching exiting the zone as a 5 man unit rather than trying to stretch the ice and generate rush attempts.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Chevy is so passive and risk averse, Im 50-50 if they actually do anything significant in terms of player movement.

I find it hard to believe there isn't going to be a real shake-up. OTOH, I find it hard to believe that Chevy will do anything bold or aggressive.

We saw this early on, when Kane needed to be traded but Chevy refused to do anything until it blew up mid-season. We would have gotten a much better return on him earlier.

 

[Jack7222]

If less than a rebuild and "a couple of roster moves are crucial", what are those roster moves?

MOSTLY what I think we need is for the org to get with it and have the stones to get down into the reality of whatever is going on, instead of glossing over it or ignoring it. Obviously some real talk needs to happen between Scheif, Wheels, and any other people in leadership roles (Chevy).

So everything would depend on how those conversations went, but I would expect at a minimum a change in leadership next season and a full coaching staff change. If that means moving one or both of Scheif / Wheeler out so be it, but I'm also optimistic about Scheif rebounding in a new atmosphere (which again would depend on how conversations with him went).

I'd also try to move out anybody who has a problem with any of this.

 

[Jack7222]

Maurice clamped down on defensemen pinching and activating past the circles in 18-19. That was also when they started preaching exiting the zone as a 5 man unit rather than trying to stretch the ice and generate rush attempts.

That's also when our offensive game-plan seemed to devolve into passing it back to for a shot from the point, heh.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

One thing people often forget is that Winnipeg is on a lot of no-trade lists. That makes a value-for-value trade difficult. Circumstances lined up perfectly for the Laine-Dubois trade. That is rare, though.

Lots of teams would love to have Scheifele, but we would have to be content with prospects and draft picks. And if we're talking about good teams, then the draft picks would be too low.

Players don't have no trade lists until they are 27 or have put in 7 seasons in the NHL. That is a lot more potential returns than picks and prospects.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Isn't that implying he isn't hurt? By saying he may be out because of a trade and not by an actual injury is the same as saying they may be lying to us.

And yes deadline has passed about 3 weeks ago. Trades can still happen but the players cant play if they do.

I might be mistaken, but I think players can be traded after the TD and still play - but they can't be eligible for the PO. Trades after the TD are very rare.

 

[surixon]

When did we ever try boring low event hockey? This team has played man coverage D since day one and NEVER had a neutral zone system... we have always engaged the D to rush...

As for Julien, the Cdns were hot to start that season and went on a mini-losing streak - nothing compared to the ones we have seen here - and Julien was canned... I think with Helle that Julien's system would work well.

I never said they played it well. Check out the charts in this link. You can change the years.

NHL Team Stats

Stats and Graphs For All NHL Teams

moneypuck.com

In 19-20 we played at the third slowest pace in the league.

In 20-21 we were more mid table overall but lowest event of any of the Canadian teams in our division.

21-22 we definitely played more of a higher event game earlier on with Maurice so I stand corrected this year.

 

[DRW204]

I think it's damning when a vet laden team with the same key players over the past few seasons still needs to preach about building culture. The whole lack of motivation or desire as well should be a huge gut punch.

I remember in 18-19, after an L, Adam Lowry said this team was fat and comfortable. They made a WCF lost in 5 gp and have basically rested on their laurels since. Fat and comfy off one PO run wow.

That, along with poor systems or play. This team might need a overhaul in terms of franchise "faces" or leadership.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

He's clearly a younger leader. I don't like calling him a "beta" but if that's the definition you want to use, sure. I think he doesn't have the same influence and impact that Scheifele and Wheeler do. He's leading by example by being the team's best defenceman this year.

It's like he's a manager trainee. Anything he might say is drowned out by Scheifele and Wheeler. Do you think that Ehlers, Stastny and these guys coming out and telling the media that the team is unprepared are not able to say this in the room as well? Morrissey might have an A but he may as well not have one because the team has 2 captains, Wheeler and Hand of the King Scheifele and until they aren't here, it won't change, and once they do leave, it would allow Morrissey to become a more effective leader.

This post brings up a question in my mind. If Wheeler and Scheifele are stripped of their letters but are still here next year, has the leadership really changed? Will the new letter wearers be given the opportunity to lead? Or will at least some of the players continue to follow the old leaders?

 

[robertocarlos]

He f***ed up. Is he naming names?

 

[robertocarlos]

Keenan, Keenan, Keenan!

Kermit.

 

[robertocarlos]

May I have your attention, please?
May I have your attention, please?
Will the real Sipowicz please stand up?
I repeat, will the real Sipowicz please stand up?
We're gonna have a problem here

f*** you Chevy!

 

[surixon]

An interview Wheeler made a few years back stuck with me. To paraphrase he praised the Jets coaching staff for allowing him to played his game, a skilled rather than a heavy game. He pointed out that the reason Boston traded him was their insistence to ask him to play a role he didn't want.

God this team misses Buff.

At the time that was the right game for him to play. I have no issue with that, one of the best things Maurice did. The problem is he didn't also coach him on his defensive game. At the time he was an elite playdrivwr so it didn't matter as much but now since that aspect of his game has declined better defense would have served him well.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I don't think that but I am also trying to throw some cold water on people's argument's.
I do think the team is at a crossroads but I also think that it may not go the route some people think it should.

I don't know what goes on behind the scenes. I don't think many people do. I do know that I don't like what I see on the ice. Team looks disorganized. Gives up way to man quality chances far to easily and we can't string together solid game after game. I do know the AHL team is the exact opposite of this team. That would suggest its the coach or the players. One coach left and another took over and the team looks even worse to me. That would suggest it is the players.

Let's say that they trade both Schief and Wheeler and the best you can manage is draft picks and prospects. Are we a better team on paper? No. Maybe we are better by subtraction in other area's. We won't know until this team steps on the ice and plays. We could end up in Ottawa territory after they dumped Karlsson and company. Years of bottom dwelling. I kind of trust our scouting and development process though to get us through that but you just don't know.

True that we just don't know several different things. I don't agree with your logical progression to it being the players though. We changed coaches, but the new coach didn't change anything, so the problem continuing under another coach doesn't prove it is not the coaching. Not to mention that they changed only the HC, all the same assistants.

 

[robertocarlos]

Chipman pulled some strings and got 55 that sweetheart MPIC gig. This has lessened the sulking due to low pay. Now all he needs is a gf.

 

[surixon]

I think Maurice recognized that and got Wheeler, Buff, Scheif on his side first and foremost - look at the minutes played and you'll see who was in Pomo's club - not a bad strategy

He absolutely is a master of knowing who to make relationships with to stay employed.

 

[rkp]

This post brings up a question in my mind. If Wheeler and Scheifele are stripped of their letters but are still here next year, has the leadership really changed? Will the new letter wearers be given the opportunity to lead? Or will at least some of the players continue to follow the old leaders?

or worse yet two armed factions in the room....whats the cliche.." a house divided onto itself....."

 

[rkp]

The difference is that Carlson and Stone were their key guys and their future.... not locker room cancers.

Keeping Scheif and Wheeler could just as potentially cause an exodus if Connor, PLD, etc get frustrated - you could see last game that PLD was kind of wondering what to do with his linemates - after having clear chemistry with Connor and Svech all season...

It is a tricky offseason. IF Scheif stays or if major coaching changes are not made, maybe PLD takes a bridge instead of 8 years... who knows.

i can see pld taking a bridge to see what TN does or what changes is implemented to see if its even worthwhile wasting time on the jets

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

Chipman pulled some strings and got 55 that sweetheart MPIC gig. This has lessened the sulking due to low pay. Now all he needs is a gf.

You're suggesting Mark should limit himself to just one?

 

[rkp]

Re: the bolded — 100%. When Dummy Maurice was here, it was obvious he had favourites on the team. It was obvious some players got benefits that others did not. It was obvious he was blinded by his love for gud vets. It was obvious he didn’t trust young players.

Now Maurice has bailed and these issues still seem to remain. So was it actually so obviously Maurice’s fault? Is Lowry just a carbon copy? Or this is a larger organizational thing? I lean towards Lowry being the same, but a lot of the issues we have now festered under Maurice and the organization’s inability to remove him (IMO he should’ve been gone after the Blues series) is part of that. So, while I do believe Maurice is responsible for a lot of this mess, some of it has to fall on the organization (Chevy, and co.) for enabling it for so long.

and that is concerning...taking so long to react to issues, always seem to be caught off guard...not knowing how to be proactive.....will they do the rite thing at all???

 

[Jets 31]

Let me throw some cold water on people

Teams don't necessarily fire the GM and trade their top end players just because they missed the playoffs after 1 season

Just think about that for a minute

But our GM and Wheeler have been here from Day 1 not new this season. Both have had their chance to get it done and we are going backwards now.

 

[DRW204]

But our GM and Wheeler have been here from Day 1 not new this season. Both have had their chance to get it done and we are going backwards now.

I know right? Imagine thinking this is a one season problem.