Post-Game Talk: B2B spankings, Jets lose 7-4

[Jets 31]

6’3 190 isn’t 6’7, 230. Samberg brings more than Stanley. The tipping point for him was aways size. Was always going to be a project they hoped would turn into a regular NHL player but his size was the big appeal. It ignored a lot of question marks as a result.

Agreed, what's good about size if you never use it or can't use it because you aren't a good enough skater. That was part of what made Buff so good, he had size but was also a great skater.

 

[Eyeseeing]

Agreed, what's good about size if you never use it or can't use it because you aren't a good enough skater. That was part of what made Buff so good, he had size but was also a great skater.

The organization has fixated on him day 1 based on his size and I don’t suspect they’re going to move on and admit there are better options.
He’s not a very good defender and there are better options.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

MOSTLY what I think we need is for the org to get with it and have the stones to get down into the reality of whatever is going on, instead of glossing over it or ignoring it. Obviously some real talk needs to happen between Scheif, Wheels, and any other people in leadership roles (Chevy).

So everything would depend on how those conversations went, but I would expect at a minimum a change in leadership next season and a full coaching staff change. If that means moving one or both of Scheif / Wheeler out so be it, but I'm also optimistic about Scheif rebounding in a new atmosphere (which again would depend on how conversations with him went).

I'd also try to move out anybody who has a problem with any of this.

OK - but my question was to get at the roster changes specifically, because if we move any more than 1 of Scheif/Wheeler we are getting into rebuild territory.

I think we could move either one of them and it would be less than a rebuild, but if we move both it becomes a rebuild. I suppose some might say that it isn't quite a real rebuild unless we also move Helle.

The thing for me is that I think we also need to make a few other moves. At least 1 of Dillon & Schmidt has to go and I would prefer both. Neither one is needed as much as his cap hit is needed.

So lets say we limit the roster moves to Scheif, Dillon & Schmidt. That's quite a lot. If it is called a rebuild or just a retool is up to the individual. It is short of a complete tear-down, but not by a lot. Now add Wheeler to that list.

 

[surixon]

OK - but my question was to get at the roster changes specifically, because if we move any more than 1 of Scheif/Wheeler we are getting into rebuild territory.

I think we could move either one of them and it would be less than a rebuild, but if we move both it becomes a rebuild. I suppose some might say that it isn't quite a real rebuild unless we also move Helle.

The thing for me is that I think we also need to make a few other moves. At least 1 of Dillon & Schmidt has to go and I would prefer both. Neither one is needed as much as his cap hit is needed.

So lets say we limit the roster moves to Scheif, Dillon & Schmidt. That's quite a lot. If it is called a rebuild or just a retool is up to the individual. It is short of a complete tear-down, but not by a lot. Now add Wheeler to that list.

It all depends on what is coming back and of young players can play roles well.

Dillion was crap this past year so it's hard to imagine Samberg even with growing pains playing worse.

Scheifele's offense will be harder to replace but his all around impact may not be if we can bring in some other pieces.

 

[Jack7222]

OK - but my question was to get at the roster changes specifically, because if we move any more than 1 of Scheif/Wheeler we are getting into rebuild territory.

I think we could move either one of them and it would be less than a rebuild, but if we move both it becomes a rebuild. I suppose some might say that it isn't quite a real rebuild unless we also move Helle.

The thing for me is that I think we also need to make a few other moves. At least 1 of Dillon & Schmidt has to go and I would prefer both. Neither one is needed as much as his cap hit is needed.

So lets say we limit the roster moves to Scheif, Dillon & Schmidt. That's quite a lot. If it is called a rebuild or just a retool is up to the individual. It is short of a complete tear-down, but not by a lot. Now add Wheeler to that list.

I think if you move Dillon, Schmidt and Wheeler and keep Scheif you could come out ahead and be ready to compete next year, IMO. Again though it depends on how the talks go.

Moving Scheif is a big challenge and everything would depend on the return re: whether you're moving your window 'forward' or not.

There are too many unknowns to try to accurately categorize it as a rebuild/retool/etc IMO. We may find a lot of addition by subtraction going on, and suddenly with a new culture and new approach the roster looks better than we thought.

 

[Jets 31]

It all depends on what is coming back and of young players can play roles well.

Dillion was crap this past year so it's hard to imagine Samberg even with growing pains playing worse.

Scheifele's offense will be harder to replace but his all around impact may not be if we can bring in some other pieces.

I would like to see Scheifele with a entirely new coaching staff first before moving him, centers are almost as tough as #1 defensemen to find. Wheeler is the guy i would move just to get some new blood on this team and that would mean a new captain on the team as well. Moving Wheeler wouldn't be easy because of his contract but i still think it can be done. Now if Scheifele is the same next season under a entirely new coaching staff then we trade him too.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I think if you move Dillon, Schmidt and Wheeler and keep Scheif you could come out ahead and be ready to compete next year, IMO. Again though it depends on how the talks go.

Moving Scheif is a big challenge and everything would depend on the return re: whether you're moving your window 'forward' or not.

There are too many unknowns to try to accurately categorize it as a rebuild/retool/etc IMO. We may find a lot of addition by subtraction going on, and suddenly with a new culture and new approach the roster looks better than we thought.

It might be possible to correct Scheifele - or not. Hard to know. Wheeler still at least works hard. The problem with him seems to be his handling of the C. I'm a little doubtful that he will surrender that gracefully, but again, hard to know.

None of us know the problems or the solutions. We only have our guesses based on what is publicly visible.

My guess is that Scheifele needs to go, both for the Jets and for himself. I think being traded is the kick in the ass he needs. That will also place him under a different coaching staff at the same time, facilitating a fresh start for him.

Whether or not Wheeler needs to go and will cooperate in arranging a trade will depend on his attitude toward giving up the C. He just might be glad to be relieved of it. But I suspect he will resent it. So he will have to be moved also.

My guess at this point is that both have to go. We are left with seeing the returns to know which direction we are going next season and beyond. If all we get is futures, we are rebuilding. In that case Helle should probably be cashed in also. If we get players who are ready to contribute now, we are retooling and Helle needs to be kept.

 

[surixon]

I would like to see Scheifele with a entirely new coaching staff first before moving him, centers are almost as tough as #1 defensemen to find. Wheeler is the guy i would move just to get some new blood on this team and that would mean a new captain on the team as well. Moving Wheeler wouldn't be easy because of his contract but i still think it can be done. Now if Scheifele is the same next season under a entirely new coaching staff then we trade him too.

The org needs to have a candid conversation with him to see where his head is at. If he isn't happy here and wants out then he has to be moved. If he is wlimg to be receptive to what should be harsh criticism of his attitude and game and is willing to correct it and apologizes to his teammates then there is some possibility for him to stay.