Rumor: Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 17-18 Part VIII

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CobraAcesS

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For me, the return for him - in order to even begin to justify the trade - would need to be quite a bit more than the one for Duchene.

You are just not going to get that for a #3D. Duchene has that what if #1C thing going for him.

I do think we should be able to get a top five draft pick for him though. I don't think I'd be looking to trade him for a package. It would be one player, or one high draft pick IMO.

Maybe Edmonton will finally f***ing trade us their pick for him if those tools don't win the draft lottery. (God that is going to piss me off)
 

Lonewolfe2015

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You really can't see the issue with how hes playing right now?

I didn't say I can't see it, I said he's not a passenger and has had really good games this year showcasing his talent.

Mack doesn't break out without his wingers. I will stand behind that line as the reason Mack has time, space and opportunity. They're always in the right place and know how to work together. Even when Landy is 'playing bad' he's doing the little things people ignore. Even when Rants is a 'passenger' he's back checking and making plays happen.

Put him on another line if needed, but it will be to the Avs detriment. Once Rants learns NHL-level decision making with experience he will be unreal. He's still figuring that out which is why he makes some bone headed plays, much like Mack has for a long time. In the mean time I'm perfectly fine with his breakout passes to Mack, net front presence and his play off the half wall.
 

Ivan13

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You are just not going to get that for a #3D. Duchene has that what if #1C thing going for him.

I do think we should be able to get a top five draft pick for him though. I don't think I'd be looking to trade him for a package. It would be one player, or one high draft pick IMO.

Maybe Edmonton will finally ****ing trade us their pick for him if those tools don't win the draft lottery. (God that is going to piss me off)
Whether people here like to admit it or not, Tyson is a top pairing D on pace for 65 points and is worth quite a bit more than a guy who put in a trade request and bombed his value to bits before finally being traded away.
 

Lonewolfe2015

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I have a hard time agreeing he is a top pairing defender when he can't take on top pairing defensive assignments. He's an amazing offensive defender, but he's never going to shutdown a star forward defensively and he isn't good enough at keeping it in the other zone to override that problem like Karlsson or Boyle of years past.
 

henchman21

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Actually I was wrong on Rant's ES numbers... 3 goals, 4 primary assists... yeesh. Comeau, Yak, and Ghetto each have 6 and haven't had nearly the time with MacK.
 
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CobraAcesS

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Whether people here like to admit it or not, Tyson is a top pairing D on pace for 65 points and is worth quite a bit more than a guy who put in a trade request and bombed his value to bits before finally being traded away.

Have you seen what the result has been every time Barrie has had to be our #1D?

I didn't say I can't see it, I said he's not a passenger and has had really good games this year showcasing his talent.

Mack doesn't break out without his wingers. I will stand behind that line as the reason Mack has time, space and opportunity. They're always in the right place and know how to work together. Even when Landy is 'playing bad' he's doing the little things people ignore. Even when Rants is a 'passenger' he's back checking and making plays happen.

Put him on another line if needed, but it will be to the Avs detriment. Once Rants learns NHL-level decision making with experience he will be unreal. He's still figuring that out which is why he makes some bone headed plays, much like Mack has for a long time. In the mean time I'm perfectly fine with his breakout passes to Mack, net front presence and his play off the half wall.

I think that's a bit of a sugar coated analysis of his play lately, but it wouldn't be a discussion otherwise. I just don't see the problem with recognizing the flaws in his game lately. No one is saying he isn't a top line player or down on his future.
 

Ivan13

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I have a hard time agreeing he is a top pairing defender when he can't take on top pairing defensive assignments. He's an amazing offensive defender, but he's never going to shutdown a star forward defensively and he isn't good enough at keeping it in the other zone to override that problem like Karlsson or Boyle of years past.
He was never given a chance to do so. And Shatty has been thought of the same, now he looks ok on top pair. So yes, he's top pairing D in my mind.
 

McMetal

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I can't think of more than a handful of games this year when Rants has created his own offense. He has absolutely been a passenger this year, and we know for a fact that he can do better. He will probably figure it out, but you're blind if you can't see that he has been piggybacking off his dominant linemate for points all year. The only player besides MacK who has created offense this year is Landy.

As for Barrie, he is absolutely not a top pair defenseman, because he can't play defense, which is literally right in the name of the position. I think he is wildly overrated, he creates very little offense on his own, and his shot is worthless because it never makes it to the goalie. His point totals look pretty, but don't tell the whole story, and I hope we can move him for a major haul before the rest of the league figures that out, because it would be a colossal mistake to give him the outrageous UFA contract Newport is going to demand. You'd have to be hopelessly naive if you think he can be retained for anything less than 8m, which I think is the low end of what he will be asking.
 

McMetal

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He was never given a chance to do so. And Shatty has been thought of the same, now he looks ok on top pair. So yes, he's top pairing D in my mind.
What are you talking about? Just last year he was our #1D for the entire time EJ was out. If he didn't play top pair minutes, then who did?
 

Balthazar

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With Barrie Sakic won't want to trade him unless :

A) we have an established top 4 without him
and
B) he gets an offer in the ballpark of the value of a 50-60 pts defenseman (and he won't get that offer).

So we'll more than likely trade him for rental value at the end of his contract (for a late 1st and a couple of B prospects AKA the Shatty trade).
 

McMetal

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Joe would be wise to capitalize on the scoring boom inflating Barrie's numbers before a 50-60 point defenseman has the same value around the league that a 40-50 point D a year ago. Somebody would surely bite, but unfortunately all the stupidest GMs right now have very little resources with which to make a good offer.
 
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Balthazar

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Joe would be wise to capitalize on the scoring boom inflating Barrie's numbers before a 50-60 point defenseman has the same value around the league that a 40-50 point D a year ago. Somebody would surely bite, but unfortunately all the stupidest GMs right now have very little resources with which to make a good offer.

It's not about value yet. Sakic won't trade Barrie until we have a top 4 that doesn't include Tyson Barrie. He has been working so hard to find top 4 defensemen, he's not trading one at this point for sure.
 

dahrougem2

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You guys wanting to trade Barrie are crazy. The guy is best friends with MacKinnon and Landeskog, and is a top-10 offensive defensemen in the league. Some might even put him top-5. He's 26 years old. This team has LOADS of cap space moving forward that if he's the player being overpaid, there really isn't a problem.

People cite Makar, Girard, and Timmins all the time as being options to replace Barrie. I just don't get it. We've been through this time and time again. Not just us, either. EVERY team's fan base goes through the "We have "X" as a prospect and he'll be able to replace "Y" when he makes the NHL!" and then it doesn't happen.

Here's a thought: keep Tyson Barrie around and try to be competitive instead of perpetually rebuilding. No team is going to trade us a better defensemen for Barrie, either. Why would they? Why wouldn't they just keep that defensemen? Maybe we can keep him and look to start winning soon?
 

henchman21

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I agree... let the team get competitive, and if the cap becomes the issue in re-signing Barrie... trade EJ. EJ will drop off here soon and that is who Makar/Timmins should be replacing. The other can bide their time for a top 4 role.
 
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Pokecheque

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Barrie unquestionably has more value than Duchene. Reliable puckmoving defenders are not easy to come by. Scoring line centers are easier to find. As someone on Twitter said—good forwards raise your ceiling, good defensemen raise your floor.

People keep calling him a 3D. So what? Just because he’s not a complete player doesn’t mean he’s not very good at what he does. 3D is not anywhere near the same as 3C.

And again, he’s never, ever had even close to an ideal lineup around him. He’s played most of this season with a waiver pickup. Before that it was a career AHLer. The team has yet to get him a reliable partner and a capable #1 who can play and dominate in all situations. Get one or both of those and you will see precisely what Barrie can really do.
 

CobraAcesS

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Barrie unquestionably has more value than Duchene. Reliable puckmoving defenders are not easy to come by. Scoring line centers are easier to find. As someone on Twitter said—good forwards raise your ceiling, good defensemen raise your floor.

People keep calling him a 3D. So what? Just because he’s not a complete player doesn’t mean he’s not very good at what he does. 3D is not anywhere near the same as 3C.

And again, he’s never, ever had even close to an ideal lineup around him. He’s played most of this season with a waiver pickup. Before that it was a career AHLer. The team has yet to get him a reliable partner and a capable #1 who can play and dominate in all situations. Get one or both of those and you will see precisely what Barrie can really do.

Well that and a coach who can actually help him at something instead of hindering him. Wait wasn't I a Barrie hater? lol

Krik was going to land Drouin, and that is while Drouin still had more shine on him. I expect the same type of player/potential for Barrie, but that's only if we need to.

Barrie sucks, trade him! For a top line forward
 

CobraAcesS

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I agree... let the team get competitive, and if the cap becomes the issue in re-signing Barrie... trade EJ. EJ will drop off here soon and that is who Makar/Timmins should be replacing. The other can bide their time for a top 4 role.

That's just savage.
 

McMetal

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I agree... let the team get competitive, and if the cap becomes the issue in re-signing Barrie... trade EJ. EJ will drop off here soon and that is who Makar/Timmins should be replacing. The other can bide their time for a top 4 role.
I don't think either of those players will replace what EJ brings as a minute-munching defensive horse. Middle pair PMD is the likely ceiling for both IMO. If we want to replace EJ, we need to do that in the first round of 2018. I can't imagine that a top 4 of Girard, Barrie, Makar and Zadorov will get us past the first round of the playoffs.
 

CobraAcesS

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I don't think either of those players will replace what EJ brings as a minute-munching defensive horse. Middle pair PMD is the likely ceiling for both IMO. If we want to replace EJ, we need to do that in the first round of 2018. I can't imagine that a top 4 of Girard, Barrie, Makar and Zadorov will get us past the first round of the playoffs.

What does it matter when MacK is scoring 5 points a game? Pit has proven that you just need a elite goalie, some puck movers, and the proper wire transfers to the refs bank accounts.
 
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Lonewolfe2015

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but you're blind if you can't see that he has been piggybacking off his dominant linemate for points

'I don't agree with you, so I'm going to sling mud'

Let's try to be better than this. Just because you don't see Rantanen having some really good games doesn't mean someone else doesn't. There's a difference between his play and that of Jonathan Cheechoo.
 

McMetal

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Meloche can be the guy to replace EJ. Still a few years out though.
Possible, but #2D is an optimistic projection for him, and always has been. I love his game and think we need that on our blueline, but I don't know if he's got the chops to play 28 minutes a night against top competition the way EJ does. Like I said, nobody in our system really does.
 

Perratrooper

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Possible, but #2D is an optimistic projection for him, and always has been. I love his game and think we need that on our blueline, but I don't know if he's got the chops to play 28 minutes a night against top competition the way EJ does. Like I said, nobody in our system really does.

I'm not sure if I agree, Zadorov is starting to look like he could fill EJ's role in the next year or two. I personally wouldn't have a problem trading either EJ or Barrie, but it had to be for the right package at the right time. I also would have no problem having EJ until the end of his contract, but if Makar or someone else can step in and bring close to what Barrie does on offense I think we ship Barrie out no questions asked.
 
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