Proposal: Avs-Ducks

[The Moose is Loose]

I think these teams match up very well in terms of trade partners.
I think the Avs could really benefit from an elite goaltender and the Ducks are in rebuild mode and could use picks and prospects which the Avs have.

To the Avalanche:

John Gibson
Ducks' 2020 3rd round pick

To the Ducks:

Philip Grubauer
Pierre-Edouard Bellmare
Avs' 2020 1st round pick
Connor Timmins
Toronto's 2020 3rd round pick


This thread it was hard to gauge values because goalies can be such wildcards and its hard to know how much they are worth relative to skaters and picks.

Avs Reasoning: Here the Avs upgrade from Grubauer to Gibson. Even though he wasn't spectacular this year it's obvious he is an elite goaltender and if he was playing with a much better Colorado team, it'd be easy for him to prove that. Gibson is young and locked in for 7 more years at a great caphit of a little over 6 million. Avs have highend forwards and an extremely young dynamic defensive group. An elite goalie could be what they need to make them the top cup contenders in the West and prying out one of the most valuable assets from the Ducks isn't going to be cheap. Most importantly they have a solid batch of prospects and believe they can sacrifice a very good one to lock down one of the most unpredictable positions in hockey. I also added the 3rd rounder swap to get the Avs a slightly higher pick as now they wouldn't have their 1st or 2nd.

Ducks reasoning: They didn't have a good season, and with Getzlaf getting older and lacking high-end elite talent at both forward and defense they need to inject youth to their system. Grubauer replaces Gibson, and he just had a good season and is still young enough to hold the position for several years, I think its worth noting he is a starter in his own right and it'd make the trade much easier for the Ducks to do. Bellemare is simply there is help even out cap hits. The Ducks get a 1st in the trade in a strong draft. The main prize here is Timmins who is a big young 21 year old dman with all the makings to be a top 4 RHD, and is considered the Avs 2nd best prospect after Byram, Avs fans won't like giving him up at all, but he fills a need for the Ducks as they're looking for young RHD.

Tell me what you think, again I may be way off here because goalie values are difficult to gauge but I think it could benefit both teams!

Click to read more...

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

A truly bad proposal and remarkably an even worse job of selling it. Not often you see that.

 

[The Moose is Loose]

A truly bad proposal and remarkably an even worse job of selling it. Not often you see that.

Okay.

What do you think the difference is in value from Gibson to Grubauer?

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

Okay.

What do you think the difference is in value from Gibson to Grubauer?

Considering one is signed for only one more season and the other is signed long term, younger, and the one with the franchise-level pedigree, it's probably a pretty massive difference in value.

Tell me, what was going through your head when you included the Ducks 2nd and then admitted the minimal difference in spots between that and the Avs first?

 

[The Moose is Loose]

Considering one is signed for only one more season and the other is signed long term, younger, and the one with the franchise-level pedigree, it's probably a pretty massive difference in value.

Tell me, what was going through your head when you included the Ducks 2nd and then admitted the minimal difference in spots between that and the Avs first?

Meant to write 3rd rounder because I wanted to do a 3rd round swap so the Avs could get the higher pick. Didn't realize till 5 minutes ago. Fixed it anyways.

The value of goalies has never been that signifcant- as evidenced by history. I think getting a first and a great young RHD prospect is solid value.

The swap of the 3rds is minimal.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

Meant to write 3rd rounder because I wanted to do a 3rd round swap so the Avs could get the higher pick. Didn't realize till 5 minutes ago. Fixed it anyways.

The value of goalies has never been that signifcant- as evidenced by history. I think getting a first and a great young RHD prospect is solid value.

The swap of the 3rds is minimal.

LOL no you didn't. You even broke down how the Avs' first is only 10 spots higher than the Ducks' second. Why would you lie about something like that? It's weird.

You could also take out the weird third round pick swap and it's still bad. I'm sure you and many others will argue about goalie value, but the truth is you're dealing with a team that believes he's a franchise player and just made a massive commitment to him. Why would they trade him for anything less than a monster offer, if even then?

 

[Gurglesons]

Meant to write 3rd rounder because I wanted to do a 3rd round swap so the Avs could get the higher pick. Didn't realize till 5 minutes ago. Fixed it anyways.

The value of goalies has never been that signifcant- as evidenced by history. I think getting a first and a great young RHD prospect is solid value.

The swap of the 3rds is minimal.

The difference between Grubs and Gibson is like the difference between MacKinnon and a player like Trochek. This is a stupid proposal.

 

[The Moose is Loose]

LOL no you didn't. You even broke down how the Avs' first is only 10 spots higher than the Ducks' second. Why would you lie about something like that? It's weird.

You could also take out the weird third round pick swap and it's still bad. I'm sure you and many others will argue about goalie value, but the truth is you're dealing with a team that believes he's a franchise player and just made a massive commitment to him. Why would they trade him for anything less than a monster offer, if even then?

Jesus dude take your profile advice and R-E-L-A-X. I made the proposal in my head and it was essentially Timmins, 1st, and Grubauer for Gibson. With small salary/pieces to even out. When I typed it out I wrote a 2nd and when I was explaining I simply did the math in my head - Avs are a top 10 the ducks a bottom 5 so the difference is 10-15, I didn't reason it out.
It was just an error and I said it was my mistake and fixed it. I have literally 0 motivation to lie here. No need to be an ass about it.

The pick swap was explained. The Avs wouldn't have a pick in the draft until the late third, and there'd be a little more motivation to be able to get a guy they liked that was a 2nd round faller in the early 3rd.

 

[rent free]

this makes no sense for either team. why would they ducks give their franchise goalie away for lesser parts and why would the avs give up all these assets for what will ultimately end up being a small upgrade in net?

 

[The Moose is Loose]

The difference between Grubs and Gibson is like the difference between MacKinnon and a player like Trochek. This is a stupid proposal.

Okay I get not liking the proposal but that is absurd.
Mackinnon is one of the most valuable assets in the game and Trocheck just went for a 30ish point left wing in Haula.

The closest comparble for Gibson would be Schneider when he was dealt to the Devils. He was the same age and had similar stats. (slightly better numbers but fewer games played).
He got the 9th OA. A 20 something pick, a strong RHD prospect, and a replacement starter I think is pretty close in value to that.
Also its worth mentioning that the team trading for the goalie ending up losing that trade.

 

[The Moose is Loose]

this makes no sense for either team. why would they ducks give their franchise goalie away for lesser parts and why would the avs give up all these assets for what will ultimately end up being a small upgrade in net?

This is probably the right answer

 

[dracom]

fairly easy no from the Ducks perspective. Grubauer is only signed for one more season while Gibson is signed for 6. So by the end of next season we either have no goalie (unless Dostal somehow exceeds every expectation in one season) to take over for when we 're supposed to be leaving the rebuild/retool or we extend a 30 year old goalie for too long/much. Timmins would be a great add, along side the 1st, but it's not worth the clear and drastic hole in the net that this trade would leave us.

 

[MMC]

f*** no

 

[duckpuck]

This is an awful proposal. The return is not nearly enough. On top of that, not only is Gibson a top level goalie, but his contract is way below market for his prime years (26-33) which adds a ton of value. Gibson has a $6.4M AAV. By comparison, Vasilevskiy is at 9.5MM for the same years of his career. And Bobrovsky is at $10MM for years 31-37 which is brutal.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

The Ducks need more cost controlled elite talents like Gibson to build around.

 

[Sundin92]

This deal sucks for the Ducks

 

[Mrfenn92]

Ducks say no

 

[Flyer lurker]

Lets just delete Bellmare and 3rd round picks from trade. That is a way to pile extra parts that have no reason to be there. Ducks are not going we wanted to keep Gibson but since Bellemare is in the trade how can we say no?

Let also state Gru with one left of deal is useless asset for Ducks. If you are going tank go full tank, not have 1a goalie for 1 year and watch walk.

So its late 1 and Timmins for Gibson for long term assets to Ducks. That is not close to correct value.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Really bad for the Ducks. If they move Gibson they literally have nobody left on that team. Especially in net. Grubauer is a decent goalie but nowhere close to Gibby.

It would take a really good piece for them to even consider a deal.


The better target from Anaheim is Rakell. Much better chance at getting a deal done involving him rather than the Ducks current franchise piece.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Really bad for the Ducks. If they move Gibson they literally have nobody left on that team. Especially in net. Grubauer is a decent goalie but nowhere close to Gibby.

It would take a really good piece for them to even consider a deal.


The better target from Anaheim is Rakell. Much better chance at getting a deal done involving him rather than the Ducks current franchise piece.

Agreed... rakell to avs makes a lot of sense.... and the avs have a ton of nice pieces they could use to make the trade happen.

I suppose the avs could afford Gibson... but it likely wouldn't be worth what wed want for him.

 

[CraigsList]

Gibson is not for sale. The Ducks, after a couple more years of rebuild/retooling, are going to need Gibson.

I'll echo other posters that Rakell is the way to go if you plan on spending a prospect and pick on a player.

2020 1st + Timmons would be a good start for Rakell.

 

[Unbiased Fan]

Maybe something around Byram for Gibson?

 

[RockyMtnRedhawk]

Byram
2020 1st
Jost
Grubauer
2021 3rd

for

Gibson
Rakell

(This is purely what I think is fair value. I don't see Joe doing this.)

 

[Patagonia]

Gibson is worth much more than this package. ANA would ask for a minimum, Newhook and/or Byram. Without the inclusion, literally every team could beat the AVs proposal.

AVs already have the 4th GF & 5th GA in the league. Being the youngest team, most cap space and Top 5 Farm System, the future is really bright. Goalie tandem Grub/Franco has been exceptional. DMen is already among the highest scoring, defensively might need improvement. Prospects of Byram/Timmins will be ready possibly next year. Helleson will follow in 2-3 years. Forwards Newhook, Kaut & Bowers are almost ready. Annunen completed an exceptional season and could be a roster player in 2-3 years.

I believe the AVs will keep their tandem and don't need to make a deal for a Goalie.

 

[Gliff]

Yikes...