Auston Matthews vs Patrik Laine - Round VI (MOD WARNING: BEHAVE!)

[Skinnyjimmy08]

Which is better than Laine. Laine has also played against very weak teams, yet is still a 0. I know most of his points have been scored on the PP but its still weird to see. If Laine can learn to score more points 5v5 this argument is a lot closer IMO.

Still leading the tournament in scoring as a '98 which is absolutely insane...I think the argument is extremely close as it is. Certain teams would choose either or if they had the top choice. Matthews will go number 1 to Toronto and would go #1 to a lot of teams, but IMO Laine would go #1 to a lot of teams too.

Matthews #1 to Toronto guaranteed
Laine #2 to Jets guaranteed

both teams have won the lottery and neither team would want it different

 

[Hagged]

really? that's your concern with him? hes a young kid playing in a tourney with/against great players around the world and leading the tourney in scoring and is 0 for +-... Auston Matthews is a plus 1

seems like a bit of a reach trying to cut him down with his +- stat

4 games played. Leading 7 points (4+3) in the tournament.

Laine has the same +/- as Barkov who is an excellent two way center at the NHL level, I'd say that's impressive .

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

4 games played. Leading 7 points (4+3) in the tournament.

Laine has the same +/- as Barkov who is an excellent two way center at the NHL level, I'd say that's impressive .

agreed... everyone knows its impressive... but theres gotta be something he gets ragged on for!!! just the HFBOARDS rule!!!

 

[Hagged]

Which is better than Laine. Laine has also played against very weak teams, yet is still a 0. I know most of his points have been scored on the PP but its still weird to see. If Laine can learn to score more points 5v5 this argument is a lot closer IMO.

Which one scored more ES points at the WJC20?

It seems Laine scored 1 power play goal of 7 (14% on PP)

Matthews 3 of 7 (43% on PP)

 

[JetsFan815]

But he also scored 1 3 on 3 and one 6 on 5 in reg. and 1 6 on 5 in playoffs.

So he scored 6/17 goals 5 on 5.
35 % of goals were 5 on 5.
That percentage is higher. 2/17 bumps the total up 12%.
Matthews scored 5/24 on pp
80% 5 on 5.

So now we are changing goal posts? Lets do the same for Barkov and PJ as well. Based on looking at what Liiga website says Laine's production on the PP is not out of line with JP or Barkov which was the original concern being addressed.

Perhaps Matthews average PP numbers mean he is just not that great on the PP. There are players in the NHL like that, Evander Kane comes to mind. Matthews also rode an unsustainable 18.xx shooting % which he is unlikely to replicate in the NHL, Laine's was more a reasonable 11.2%

 

[Grapes1]

I really want to see Laine against a good team who take away his time and space and see how he handles himself... would be even better if it were on smaller ice, but that's not going to happen before the draft.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I really want to see Laine against a good team who take away his time and space and see how he handles himself... would be even better if it were on smaller ice, but that's not going to happen before the draft.

U.S. is probably the best team he's faced and he didn't get that much going imo.

In his own words though he felt it was one of the words games he's played in months. Product of the U.S. or himself?

 

[Gsus]

What record is up next for Laine? I think there is a Crosby record of 19 points for an 19 year old, I believe there is one at 11 points as well right?

Crosby's record is 16 points (8g8a) but I guess he doesn't count as an u18 player. Laine counts since he turned 18 the same year WC's is held. Ofc Crosby was 18yo at the time so they could be put in the same category.

I think since one player held the points record for u18 player at 6 goals in 1939, since Laine already broke it he should have the goal scoring record in this category if he scores three more goals and passes that guy with those six goals.

If Finland gets a medal he's the youngest one to get it in the history. By a finnish article that's all he can get.

 

[topcheese12]

I've watched all of Laine's WC games thus far— also taken in a fair amount of footage from his league games this year. He's big and the kid has a cannon, world class shot. He has really soft hands for a big guy, too. Here's the call, though: he doesn't have the highest hockey IQ out there. He holds the puck too long, and tries to be way too complicated at times. These shortcomings are manifestations of attitude issues related to how he sees himself and his abilities. Laine is a wonderful talent, a pure scorer and could be a fair playmaker in my estimation. But, if you think he's a better player than Matthews you're sleeping heavily on Auston. Matthews is in a whole other conversation.

 

[lawrence]

already impressive to make the Finnish mens team as an 18 year old, undrafted player. that already is a success itself wether its against a weaker opponent or not. Making team Finland is no easy task, since Finland is also considered a strong hockey state.

his accomplishment shouldn't even be questioned at this point. Making the team is already a huge mile stone.

 

[kunekune]

U.S. is probably the best team he's faced and he didn't get that much going imo.

In his own words though he felt it was one of the words games he's played in months. Product of the U.S. or himself?

Probably himself. Coach Jalonen said after USA game that young guys (Laine, Aho) had first game of their career with such high demand and it took them some time to get going but said that their second period game was good.

 

[Duke Silver]

Funny how this gap narrowed so significantly as soon as the Leafs won the lottery.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Matthews >>> Laine AINEC

Ray Ferraro sounds like he thinks Pulju >=Laine

AINEC. According to who? You have a link that says this.

We know what Mckenzie's sources said. 10 NHL scouts.

Two of the 10 said Laine is now No. 1 on their team's lists. Others suggested they had to think long and hard about their decision to keep Matthews at No. 1.

So unless you have other credible sources that differ from Mckenzie's impeccable sources. You are not correct.

It is close and the gap has closed IMO as Mckenzie reported. Any team that gets either Laine or Matthews can't miss with either pick. Both will be great picks.

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

Funny how this gap narrowed so significantly as soon as the Leafs won the lottery.

and also how much more trash talking of Laine there is

Unsure why everyone cant be happy haha.. Leafs are getting their future #1 center and Jets are getting an absolute sniper

 

[Grapes1]

U.S. is probably the best team he's faced and he didn't get that much going imo.

In his own words though he felt it was one of the words games he's played in months. Product of the U.S. or himself?

That's what I thought too...and U.S inst really a great team... not to mention, back to the big ice... where US players are not even used to defending on.

I do like his game, has a wicked shot and plays with a ton of confidence for his age... I just cant see him stepping into the smaller, more physical, fast NHL without an adjustment period.. unlike some posters. I think a 15g-20g / 15a-20a season is more likely... majority of pts on a second PP, maybe work his way up to first PP with his shot/position.

NHL is a tough league............

For the record, i expect the same type of season for matthews... I just expect him to have a bit more of an impact in all 3 zones.

 

[Lempo]

Funny how this gap narrowed so significantly as soon as the Leafs won the lottery.

It is my understanding that Matthews got emotionally mixed.

 

[Gsus]

I think I share some of the concerns with Laine's ES production. That said, in FEL he dominated at ES and the concerns pretty much drop for me. Like I know he's good enough to put up some points at ES but it hasn't showed that level yet. He's still leading the scoring race so I guess he's done pretty good tho.

I'm sure it will help if he can develop the explosiveness and skating in general. That really helps to get points in ES too. I don't see his hockey IQ as a problem at all. Skating is THE problem.

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

People need to realize that ofcourse there are concerns about Laine. He's still a kid and is a '98 and Matthews is a '97. He younger than him and a different type of player.

I couldn't imagine playing in this tournament at such a young age. Im just shocked that NHL regulars in this tournament don't have more than 7 points

 

[Cotton]

AINEC. According to who? You have a link that says this.

We know what Mckenzie's sources said. 10 NHL scouts.

So unless you have other credible sources that differ from Mckenzie's impeccable sources. You are not correct.

It is close and the gap has closed IMO as Mckenzie reported. Any team that gets either Laine or Matthews can't miss with either pick. Both will be great picks.

Weren't we discussing this earlier? Bob polled 10 scouts of which he suggested EU scouts could have a bias and only 2 of these 10 scouts would pick Laine because of the makeup of their team. Last time I checked 8>2. Just like #1>#3. You need to come to turns with this or it'll eat you up when Laine falls to 3rd (a legit possibility).

The >>> is a hyperbolic retort to the troll post that started the thread. Let me fix it.

Matthews>Laine AINEC

Weird. At Jatkoaika-forum everyone seems to agree that Laine had a bad game but here all the Finnish posters are pumping his tires.

It is odd that he'd be getting hyped up after that game, maybe there's less homers on that other place you post?

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

Weren't we discussing this earlier? Bob polled 10 scouts of which he suggested EU scouts could have a bias and only 2 of these 10 scouts would pick Laine because of the makeup of their team. Last time I checked 8>2. Just like #1>#3. You need to come to turns with this or it'll eat you up when Laine falls to 3rd (a legit possibility).

The >>> is a hyperbolic retort to the troll post that started the thread. Let me fix it.

Matthews>Laine AINEC



It is odd that he'd be getting hyped up after that game, maybe there's less home risk on that other place you post?

McKenzie also said that of the scouts he'd spoken after Matthews' season this year, the consensus is that he would have gone behind Eichel in last year draft. So I guess on your logic, it's obvious Eichel > Matthews.

Matthews >>> Laine AINEC

Ray Ferraro sounds like he thinks Pulju >=Laine

Yeah, but 9 of 10 scouts McKenzie spoke to had Laine ahead of Pulju. So I assume you believe it's Laine >>> Pulju AINEC, right?

 

[WillTheThrill]

8/10 is a majority. Therefore its safe to say Matthews>Laine AINEC. If it was 5 or 6 out of 10 we wouldn't be able to say that.

 

[kunekune]

Weren't we discussing this earlier? Bob polled 10 scouts of which he suggested EU scouts could have a bias and only 2 of these 10 scouts would pick Laine because of the makeup of their team. Last time I checked 8>2. Just like #1>#3. You need to come to turns with this or it'll eat you up when Laine falls to 3rd (a legit possibility).

The >>> is a hyperbolic retort to the troll post that started the thread. Let me fix it.

Matthews>Laine AINEC



It is odd that he'd be getting hyped up after that game, maybe there's less homers on that other place you post?

"But when 10 NHL scouts were surveyed by TSN in late January/early February, all 10 had Matthews at No. 1. This time, in a survey of the same 10 scouts – conducted in the run-up to Saturday's NHL draft lottery – two of the 10 said Laine is now No. 1 on their team's lists. Others suggested they had to think long and hard about their decision to keep Matthews at No. 1."

These are not EU-scouts and there was no talk about teams makeup. Check your facts or stop lying.

 

[Legion34]

So now we are changing goal posts? Lets do the same for Barkov and PJ as well. Based on looking at what Liiga website says Laine's production on the PP is not out of line with JP or Barkov which was the original concern being addressed.

Perhaps Matthews average PP numbers mean he is just not that great on the PP. There are players in the NHL like that, Evander Kane comes to mind. Matthews also rode an unsustainable 18.xx shooting % which he is unlikely to replicate in the NHL, Laine's was more a reasonable 11.2%


I also find it concerning that Nylander was just a +1 after 22 games and Reilly was a -17 this season

Its not changing the goal posts. The great post was in response to my original question about 5 on 5 scoring.

Fact. He scored 6 goals in the season 5 on 5. So 6/17. The poster responded by simply showing the others percentage on pp i comparison. He used 8/17 BecAuse laine scored 9 pp goals. My point is that 6 on 5 is a man advantage. And 3 on 3 is not playoffs. Both perspectives are correct

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

love all the AINEC's being thrown around... like cmon...

Matthews is still going #1 to Toronto but as far as comparing the 2, it is close

 

[Patmac40]

4 games played. Leading 7 points (4+3) in the tournament.

Laine has the same +/- as Barkov who is an excellent two way center at the NHL level, I'd say that's impressive .

Well they do play on the same line so that makes sense