Player Discussion Auston Matthews Discussion

[LivingRentFree]

MVP

 

[Stephen]

Matthews being the goal scorer he is, at centre is amazing.

Usually as a winger, you're more free to light it up.

For sure. He’s definitely on a different tier than those guys I listed, but only to say pure goals isn’t usually the pinnacle of what an impact forward does.

For me, if Matthews “dials it down” to 50 goals territory but can pair it with a mid 120 point run, helping his linemates on 70 plus assists, that puts him in peak Sakic territory and in line with your Mackinnon, Draisaitl career years. That would be great.

 

[WTFMAN99]

For sure. He’s definitely on a different tier than those guys I listed, but only to say pure goals isn’t usually the pinnacle of what an impact forward does.

For me, if Matthews “dials it down” to 50 goals territory but can pair it with a mid 120 point run, helping his linemates on 70 plus assists, that puts him in peak Sakic territory and in line with your Mackinnon, Draisaitl career years. That would be great.

Yea - MacKinnon is a freak.

Leon steps it up in the playoffs in an unbelievable way but regular season, I do feel like gets a bump in production because of McDavid.

 

[Scion]

For sure. He’s definitely on a different tier than those guys I listed, but only to say pure goals isn’t usually the pinnacle of what an impact forward does.

For me, if Matthews “dials it down” to 50 goals territory but can pair it with a mid 120 point run, helping his linemates on 70 plus assists, that puts him in peak Sakic territory and in line with your Mackinnon, Draisaitl career years. That would be great.

I'll take 60 goals with elite defense. Those other guys are mediocre without the puck.

 

[Warden of the North]

Not just an excuse, but an extra point in McDavid's favour because he has the determination to play through it

Matthews scored 40 last year injured for much of it.

 

[Martin Skoula]

For sure. He’s definitely on a different tier than those guys I listed, but only to say pure goals isn’t usually the pinnacle of what an impact forward does.

For me, if Matthews “dials it down” to 50 goals territory but can pair it with a mid 120 point run, helping his linemates on 70 plus assists, that puts him in peak Sakic territory and in line with your Mackinnon, Draisaitl career years. That would be great.

This stretch without Marner has him at a 50/120 pace, I don’t think he looks any more impactful than he did during the goal per game run with less transition assists.

Look at his 5 point night, if Marner was in the lineup it’s just the 2 goals and the Bertuzzi assist for him, the other two were Matthews distributing from the point and getting the zone entry on the wall which is Marner’s job 90% of the time. The way Keefe deploys them when they’re healthy is the difference between 4-5 point games like Marner can pile up where you don’t even notice him too much and 2-3 point games where they were all highlight reel plays.

 

[Stephen]

This stretch without Marner has him at a 50/120 pace, I don’t think he looks any more impactful than he did during the goal per game run with less transition assists.

Look at his 5 point night, if Marner was in the lineup it’s just the 2 goals and the Bertuzzi assist for him, the other two were Matthews distributing from the point and getting the zone entry on the wall which is Marner’s job 90% of the time. The way Keefe deploys them when they’re healthy is the difference between 4-5 point games like Marner can pile up where you don’t even notice him too much and 2-3 point games where they were all highlight reel plays.

Well, my critique is premised on those goal scoring cold streaks that take him out of the Art Ross pace. So like November-ish and the first 3 weeks of March where it looked like he was ready to hit the skids. Those down swings are why he’s behind the Pastrnak’s, Rantanen’s of the world. So if he can stay involved and set up linemates more consistently… Based on his peak ability he should be well ahead of those guys.

 

[Squiffy]

9th in NHL history with 2 60 goal seasons is bonkers. Its really silly rarified territory. There was #99 and #66 and then 6 others, in all forever, that all just barely did it, as AM has.

Stupid hard achievement.

 

[Confucius]

Well, my critique is premised on those goal scoring cold streaks that take him out of the Art Ross pace. So like November-ish and the first 3 weeks of March where it looked like he was ready to hit the skids. Those down swings are why he’s behind the Pastrnak’s, Rantanen’s of the world. So if he can stay involved and set up linemates more consistently… Based on his peak ability he should be well ahead of those guys.

You think Pastrnak and Rantanen are better than Mathews? Would you trade him for either?

 

[Leafsfanperson]

For sure. He’s definitely on a different tier than those guys I listed, but only to say pure goals isn’t usually the pinnacle of what an impact forward does.

For me, if Matthews “dials it down” to 50 goals territory but can pair it with a mid 120 point run, helping his linemates on 70 plus assists, that puts him in peak Sakic territory and in line with your Mackinnon, Draisaitl career years. That would be great.

The amount of simping that is done for guys that pad there stats with 2nd assists.

Art Ross influences the Hart Trophy because of inflated fake points. No other major sport hands out MVP with so much weight on a fake gimmick stat.

Why not have 3 assists on a goal? It's just a stupid as two.

Mac isn't even a legit top ten player. He couldn't lead the Avs anywhere without Makar wiping his butt.

 

[Leafs1991]

The amount of simping that is done for guys that pad there stats with 2nd assists.

Art Ross influences the Hart Trophy because of inflated fake points. No other major sport hands out MVP with so much weight on a fake gimmick stat.

Why not have 3 assists on a goal? It's just a stupid as two.

Mac isn't even a legit top ten player. He couldn't lead the Avs anywhere without Makar wiping his butt.

You must not watch Mackinnon play.

 

[Dekes For Days]

there are other ways to evaluate players than just comparing " total raw points".

Shh, that's blasphemy to some around here.

Matthew is third in GAR and first in XGAR which takes in many different factors in consideration. Kuch might be leading matthews by alot of points but their 5v5 production is very similar (the difference being secondary assists).

Interestingly, outside of PP points and empty net points, they both have the exact same 68 points in 72 games.
Kucherov has a staggering 12-1 point advantage in empty net points, which really doesn't say anything about their respective qualities.
And then the PP difference pretty much entirely comes down to two things:
1. Differences in the PP time their teams get.
2. Differences in playstyles and how their teams run the PP. Kucherov is a playmaker, and Tampa almost exclusively runs their PP through him, so he has a really inflated IPP and picks up points on a crazy percentage of the team's PP goals. Matthews is a trigger-man, and Toronto more evenly splits who their PP runs through at any time, so Matthews has a 60% IPP compared to Kucherov's 82%. But the actual performance of the Tampa PP unit that Kucherov is on isn't really any better than the performance of the Toronto PP unit that Matthews is on.

Really goes to show how much raw points can paint a really misleading picture, and even more-so when one is so much better outside of offense than the other.

 

[Jojalu]

It's not that far fetched to think Matthews has a shot of taking the Leafs all time lead in goals by as early as next year.

 

[TOCap1]

He will get 67 goals and it’ll be a sign of things to come for the playoffs…… one can only hope

 

[Stephen]

The amount of simping that is done for guys that pad there stats with 2nd assists.

Art Ross influences the Hart Trophy because of inflated fake points. No other major sport hands out MVP with so much weight on a fake gimmick stat.

Why not have 3 assists on a goal? It's just a stupid as two.

Mac isn't even a legit top ten player. He couldn't lead the Avs anywhere without Makar wiping his butt.

I want Auston Matthews to close the gap on what these other players are doing ahead of him in the scoring race. He’s got all the tools to do so and by your description it’s f’ing easy anyway.

So go do it, contend for the Art Ross, lead the team to a deep playoff run and case closed instead of mocking the rules of the game. It is what it is.

 

[Stephen]

You think Pastrnak and Rantanen are better than Mathews? Would you trade him for either?

No, I want Matthews to surpass them in the scoring to eliminate any shadow of a doubt. Don’t you want utter greatness and dominance with no blemishes too? Or are we going to have to asterisk and qualify everything?

 

[Warden of the North]

He needs to start next season as the captain, to be honest. It would take pressure off JT too.

 

[authentic]

Shh, that's blasphemy to some around here.

Interestingly, outside of PP points and empty net points, they both have the exact same 68 points in 72 games.
Kucherov has a staggering 12-1 point advantage in empty net points, which really doesn't say anything about their respective qualities.
And then the PP difference pretty much entirely comes down to two things:
1. Differences in the PP time their teams get.
2. Differences in playstyles and how their teams run the PP. Kucherov is a playmaker, and Tampa almost exclusively runs their PP through him, so he has a really inflated IPP and picks up points on a crazy percentage of the team's PP goals. Matthews is a trigger-man, and Toronto more evenly splits who their PP runs through at any time, so Matthews has a 60% IPP compared to Kucherov's 82%. But the actual performance of the Tampa PP unit that Kucherov is on isn't really any better than the performance of the Toronto PP unit that Matthews is on.

Really goes to show how much raw points can paint a really misleading picture, and even more-so when one is so much better outside of offense than the other.

I always love it when objective analysis agrees with what I already know from watching them. As far as I can see there are only two players who have a case for being better than Matthews and that’s MacKinnon and obviously McDavid.

He will get 67 goals and it’ll be a sign of things to come for the playoffs…… one can only hope

67 goals and we get swept in the first round

 

[Jojalu]

I always love it when objective analysis agrees with what I already know from watching them. As far as I can see there are only two players who have a case for being better than Matthews and that’s MacKinnon and obviously McDavid.



67 goals and we get swept in the first round

If they make it to the ECF's and stay competitive but lose, will that be enough for the time being?

It would match the Gilour years and the Sundin years. Possibly a stepping stone to a greater run in the next few?

 

[ACC1224]

He needs to start next season as the captain, to be honest. It would take pressure off JT too.

That's not going to happen.

 

[authentic]

If they make it to the ECF's and stay competitive but lose, will that be enough for the time being?

It would match the Gilour years and the Sundin years. Possibly a stepping stone to a greater run in the next few?

Sure beats the hell out of what they've done so far, still though don't think anyone would be truly happy with it including the players but definitely wouldn't feel too disappointed.

 

[MSZ]

That's not going to happen.

It is possible with a new coach, it won't happen if Keefe stays for another year.

 

[ToneDog]

Shh, that's blasphemy to some around here.

Interestingly, outside of PP points and empty net points, they both have the exact same 68 points in 72 games.
Kucherov has a staggering 12-1 point advantage in empty net points, which really doesn't say anything about their respective qualities.
And then the PP difference pretty much entirely comes down to two things:
1. Differences in the PP time their teams get.
2. Differences in playstyles and how their teams run the PP. Kucherov is a playmaker, and Tampa almost exclusively runs their PP through him, so he has a really inflated IPP and picks up points on a crazy percentage of the team's PP goals. Matthews is a trigger-man, and Toronto more evenly splits who their PP runs through at any time, so Matthews has a 60% IPP compared to Kucherov's 82%. But the actual performance of the Tampa PP unit that Kucherov is on isn't really any better than the performance of the Toronto PP unit that Matthews is on.

Really goes to show how much raw points can paint a really misleading picture, and even more-so when one is so much better outside of offense than the other.

Now do playoffs where teams play for keeps.

 

[SprDaVE]

He needs to start next season as the captain, to be honest. It would take pressure off JT too.

I could see it happening. Maybe not next year, but the year after for sure.

 

[authentic]

Not just an excuse, but an extra point in McDavid's favour because he has the determination to play through it

Matthews played through injury all of last season...

I’d also challenge the notion somewhat that goal scoring is equivalent to much higher point totals.

When you compare scorers from previous eras like Pavel Bure, Rick Nash, Dany Heatley, etc. your Rocket winner wasn’t necessarily equivalent to your Art Ross level forwards nor were they directly related to team success either.

What does this all mean? I just want to see Matthews keep growing and become a credible Art Ross threat year after year. It’s entirely within his capability.

Considering he outscores Marner while Marner is the one carrying the puck and setting things up mostly - like this season where Matthews has more goals than Marner has assists - I think that's impressive enough really. If he played a full season with Domi and Bertuzzi maybe he does get closer to contending for the Ross but it wouldn't make him any better of a player really.