Confirmed with Link: Athanasiou signed 1/$1.3875m

[Ezekial]

Another thing we have a hard time processing as casual observers is if AA was making positional gaffes. Like taking the wrong position on the half boards while his teammates are in a board battle and other things of that nature.
Things like that will stand out to a coach but not necessarily be seen by us.

 

[Frk It]

That sounds more like a coach trying to make his point to a guy who just doesn't get it. He coasts for a few games, then decides to show up, but Blashill's like, "yeah, that's nice. Now do it for another game or two, show this is going to be the norm rather than the exception, and then we'll start talking about upping your ice time."
There might be stuff going on that we don't see, too. If he dogs it in practice every day, he's begging to ride the bench during the game.

Right, not like we haven't seen this before.... (all coaches do it)

Red Wings' Mike Babcock wonders why Jiri Hudler doesn't play every game like he did Thursday

 

[Redder Winger]

Athanasiou didn't go the NCAA route enough.

 

[Ezekial]

He was a 4th round pick that made it to the NHL at 21, he did pretty well for himself compared to other draft picks.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I agree with aspects of both sides here. As I mentioned prior, Ysebaert 2.0 would be my bet.

Thing is, I can't trust that his play is the only factor that influenced ice time in the lead up to RFA. I think both sides can agree on that.

I can. He had so many games where he was disinterested. And then he got benched. And as soon as he came back, Blash gave him time because he was skating hard. And then he slacked again.

They did not parcel out his minutes going to RFA, remember they wanted to compete for the playoffs last year. No way would they “manage” a guys RFA payday when their goal is slipping away.

 

[Redder Winger]

I can. He had so many games where he was disinterested. And then he got benched. And as soon as he came back, Blash gave him time because he was skating hard. And then he slacked again.

They did not parcel out his minutes going to RFA, remember they wanted to compete for the playoffs last year. No way would they “manage” a guys RFA payday when their goal is slipping away.

More AA hating nonsense.
He didn't slack.
He got stuck on line 4.
He managed a goal on his first game back on L4.
Then he moved back up to the Larkin line and McDavid and co blew their doors off.

AA got demoted to L4 for a month + 2nd unit PP time.

it wasn't until Mantha got hurt that he got a regular turn on a good line.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

More AA hating nonsense.
He didn't slack.
He got stuck on line 4.
He managed a goal on his first game back on L4.
Then he moved back up to the Larkin line and McDavid and co blew their doors off.

AA got demoted to L4 for a month + 2nd unit PP time.

it wasn't until Mantha got hurt that he got a regular turn on a good line.

Not talking about this year, genius. Would have thought that was obvious when I said “the Wings weren’t trying to game his RFA paycheck by limiting his usage”

AA has been really much improved this year and he’s gotten several bursts of huge minutes because of it. Last year, that was not the case. He’d have one great game after being benched for a game or two and then five uninspired ones.

Stop thinking that people are attacking Andreas Athanasiou by pointing out that he clearly did not put max effort into every game last year.

 

[Redder Winger]

Not talking about this year, genius. Would have thought that was obvious when I said “the Wings weren’t trying to game his RFA paycheck by limiting his usage”

AA has been really much improved this year and he’s gotten several bursts of huge minutes because of it. Last year, that was not the case. He’d have one great game after being benched for a game or two and then five uninspired ones.

Stop thinking that people are attacking Andreas Athanasiou by pointing out that he clearly did not put max effort into every game last year.

Nonsense.
Absolute nonsense.
You don't score 1.27/60 by lollygagging around the ice.
15 goals in 700 minutes.
Does leave many minutes to be lazy.

 

[BinCookin]

Nonsense.
Absolute nonsense.
You don't score 1.27/60 by lollygagging around the ice.
15 goals in 700 minutes.
Does leave many minutes to be lazy.

His G/60min is not some magical stat that overcomes all other talents that hockey players are valued on.

I have liked watching AA this year. He is starting to work harder on back checks.
When he starts realizing that preventing goals is just as valuable (if not more so) as scoring. that is when we will win more games. the Coaches know it. there is not an evil witch hunt against AA. He needs to keep playing well, and he needs to be humble about his position on the team. Hockey is a team sport, and there is no room in Detroit for show boat culture.
I hope amongst hope he learns that lesson, because he will become a for sure top 6 forward for us. He will get rich, and we will all love him for it. If not... he will be traded within 1-2 years.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Nonsense.
Absolute nonsense.
You don't score 1.27/60 by lollygagging around the ice.
15 goals in 700 minutes.
Does leave many minutes to be lazy.

What are you talking about? It leaves plenty of time to be lazy. That's AA's ENTIRE issue, at least last year. 15 goals.

The Wings gave up 50 more shot attempts (hit or blocked) with him on the ice in 15-16. They gave up 34 more completed shots (Corsi and fenwick base stats)

The issue is that AA sloughed off on backchecking. He clearly doesn't slough off when he gets a breakaway chance or an offensive opportunity. But that's, going by a rough approximation from the corsi numbers, under half the time he's on the ice. The best way to explain this though... he doesn't have to be lazy for half a minute at a time. A two second lapse where he gives up on a play that he should have made and it's a grade A scoring chance for the other team that didn't need to happen. The "not trusting his linemates except for Larkin" is another pretty damning item. I don't care how fast you think you are... an offensive system in hockey depends on you trusting that your teammate will do what his job is. You generally don't have enough time to "read and react" to a bad pass on a consistent basis. Or if you DO, you're playing some really really **** competition and you SHOULD be dominating p/60

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

His G/60min is not some magical stat that overcomes all other talents that hockey players are valued on.

I have liked watching AA this year. He is starting to work harder on back checks.
When he starts realizing that preventing goals is just as valuable (if not more so) as scoring. that is when we will win more games. the Coaches know it. there is not an evil witch hunt against AA. He needs to keep playing well, and he needs to be humble about his position on the team. Hockey is a team sport, and there is no room in Detroit for show boat culture.
I hope amongst hope he learns that lesson, because he will become a for sure top 6 forward for us. He will get rich, and we will all love him for it. If not... he will be traded within 1-2 years.

No, Bin. Clearly p/60 is the most important stat in the world and Josh Leivo is the third best player in hockey.

 

[Ezekial]

David Booth rocking a 2.1 G/60 right now, who's to say it's not scalable?

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

David Booth rocking a 2.1 G/60 right now, who's to say it's not scalable?

BRB Ordering my David Booth jersey right now.

 

[Henkka]

Everybody can joke as much as you want about that Goals/60, thake small sample sizes for crap players, but from last 3 seasons, ALL players with over +132 career games (Athanasiou has played on his career), he is the 15th best NHL player in Goals/60.

His career average is 1.29 goals/60min.

and in games where he has splayed +18.5 minutes, it's 1.25/60min. <---the POINT FOR ALL DISCUSSION IS HERE.

That's the only thing what is important right now on this discussion. His level doesn't drop almost at all when his icetime goes double higher. Like it was already speculated at last season, that WITH SMALL ICETIME, THERE'S LOT OF OTHER PLAYERS WHO HAVE HIGH VALUE, BUT THEY CAN'T MAINTAIN IT, IF THEY LOG MORE MINUTES !

But that hasn't happened for Athanasiou. He has scored almost at identical rate, is it 10min IT or 20min IT. Feel free to hate him about that.

He could be something different. A little bit better than someone like Brandon Pirri who was already thrown out from the league.

 

[BinCookin]

Everybody can joke as much as you want about that Goals/60, thake small sample sizes for crap players, but from last 3 seasons, ALL players with over +132 career games (Athanasiou has played on his career), he is the 15th best NHL player in Goals/60.

His career average is 1.29 goals/60min.

and in games where he has splayed +18.5 minutes, it's 1.25/60min. <---the POINT FOR ALL DISCUSSION IS HERE.

That's the only thing what is important right now on this discussion. His level doesn't drop almost at all when his icetime goes double higher. Like it was already speculated at last season, that WITH SMALL ICETIME, THERE'S LOT OF OTHER PLAYERS WHO HAVE HIGH VALUE, BUT THEY CAN'T MAINTAIN IT, IF THEY LOG MORE MINUTES !

But that hasn't happened for Athanasiou. He has scored almost at identical rate, is it 10min IT or 20min IT. Feel free to hate him about that.

He could be something different. A little bit better than someone like Brandon Pirri who was already thrown out from the league.

How many games has AA played at 18.5+ Min???

6? 8?

I mean i get it, AA is good. And we all like him. But this stat doesnt exist at all if we erase the last 5GP i bet LOL!

Lets see this stat at 82 GP (if AA keeps this ice time)..

 

[chris05]

1.29/60 seems a little low for a player like AA. They say the game of hockey is a game of support. Maybe that explains why the number is so low.

 

[Henkka]

At last season he had two games with +18.5min.

Scored
0+2
and
1+0 on those games. 6 shots.

On his rookie season he had zero games with +15min.

So it's 10 games 8+5 = 13 points, +4, 40 shots with 1st line ice-time.

Only game where he didn't score was the latest against Tampa Bay.

 

[Redder Winger]

How many games has AA played at 18.5+ Min???

6? 8?

I mean i get it, AA is good. And we all like him. But this stat doesnt exist at all if we erase the last 5GP i bet LOL!

Lets see this stat at 82 GP (if AA keeps this ice time)..

I think the icetime is less important than quality of linemates.

If he plays 10, 12 or 20 minutes with Larkin, Mantha, Z, Nyquist, and Tatar he'll produce at a good rate over a reasonable period.

 

[Redder Winger]

How many games has AA played at 18.5+ Min???

6? 8?

I mean i get it, AA is good. And we all like him. But this stat doesnt exist at all if we erase the last 5GP i bet LOL!

Lets see this stat at 82 GP (if AA keeps this ice time)..

Last year he had better production than this year. It didn't stop people from making the same misguided criticisms.

 

[Shaman464]

Last year he had better production than this year. It didn't stop people from making the same misguided criticisms.

Misguided? Like what?

 

[cjm502]

Isn't this the same debate thats been going on since he played his first few NHL games? I think everything relevant to the discussion has been run over several times and the only thing to answer the debate is a larger sample size, aka more time.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

At last season he had two games with +18.5min.

Scored
0+2
and
1+0 on those games. 6 shots.

On his rookie season he had zero games with +15min.

So it's 10 games 8+5 = 13 points, +4, 40 shots with 1st line ice-time.

Only game where he didn't score was the latest against Tampa Bay.

It's almost like his coach plays him more when he is truly engaged in the game and making a difference in all three zones.

This incredibly small sample size is an acknowledgment of Blashill playing AA big minutes when he is earning them and him producing as a result. Which for the record most of the people on the "other side" of this debate have no problem with. When AA plays well I want him to play a ton. However, that hasn't always been the case.

But but linemates... We can do this circle forever.

In the ten best games of his career he earned tons of ice time. Hopefully while enjoying his longest stretch of earning these minutes currently he is learning that with consistent energy and effort in all three zones he is entrusted with a bigger role. You know that tired old bit about becoming an everyday professional. That actually is exactly what the coaching staff has said over and over with these three guys. The only one who has stayed consistent enough that we don't need to debate his role and is earning tons of ice time as a result of that consistency is Larkin...

There are other scouts on record outside the Wings organization commenting on the inconsistency of AA. That in almost every game he plays at least 5 outstanding seconds. But often outside of that one dazzling rush he is not just average but a detriment to the team.

AA has tremendous potential. I want it to work out here, but they are very much trying to develop him the right way in my opinion. His game still has plenty of holes to work on, I am impressed with the progress he has made this year for sure.

 

[Redder Winger]

It's almost like his coach plays him more when he is truly engaged in the game and making a difference in all three zones.

This incredibly small sample size is an acknowledgment of Blashill playing AA big minutes when he is earning them and him producing as a result. Which for the record most of the people on the "other side" of this debate have no problem with. When AA plays well I want him to play a ton. However, that hasn't always been the case.

But but linemates... We can do this circle forever.

In the ten best games of his career he earned tons of ice time. Hopefully while enjoying his longest stretch of earning these minutes currently he is learning that with consistent energy and effort in all three zones he is entrusted with a bigger role. You know that tired old bit about becoming an everyday professional. That actually is exactly what the coaching staff has said over and over with these three guys. The only one who has stayed consistent enough that we don't need to debate his role and is earning tons of ice time as a result of that consistency is Larkin...

There are other scouts on record outside the Wings organization commenting on the inconsistency of AA. That in almost every game he plays at least 5 outstanding seconds. But often outside of that one dazzling rush he is not just average but a detriment to the team.

AA has tremendous potential. I want it to work out here, but they are very much trying to develop him the right way in my opinion. His game still has plenty of holes to work on, I am impressed with the progress he has made this year for sure.

The difference is that you guys think Blashill is some good coach who is developing him the right way.
And that's horseshit.

Blashill is a mediocre coach who constantly picks on the same two guys (Athanasiou and Mantha). Even though Larkin was horseshit last year and for the last 3 months of the season prior.
Even though Abdelkader was garbage last season.
Even though Helm was garbage last year and makes mistake after mistake after mistake after mistake.

If Blashill demanded the same out of everyone else, and penalized their ice time for their glaring errors and effortless games, I'd be on board.

But he doesn't.
He picks on the two OHL kids who he coached in GR.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

The difference is that you guys think Blashill is some good coach who is developing him the right way.
And that's horse****.

Blashill is a mediocre coach who constantly picks on the same two guys (Athanasiou and Mantha). Even though Larkin was horse**** last year and for the last 3 months of the season prior.
Even though Abdelkader was garbage last season.
Even though Helm was garbage last year and makes mistake after mistake after mistake after mistake.

If Blashill demanded the same out of everyone else, and penalized their ice time for their glaring errors and effortless games, I'd be on board.

But he doesn't.
He picks on the two OHL kids who he coached in GR.

I have never hid from the fact that I am a believer in Blashill. I don't think it has worked out here and we are trending towards a change, but I still believe he can be successful in this league. Heck the guy that is his best friend and developed most of both of their coaching philosophies with which they readily admit is pacing the league in points. What is the difference there?

So your response was to bring up two players who really never can be questioned in terms of work ethic?

Helm getting run out has made little sense to me for a long time. I don't like him, but they also pretty constantly refer to him as a worker. Hate Blashill all you want but Babcock (who is treated like Coaching Jesus by many around here) said the same things about Abdelkader, Helm and Glendening. It isn't effort plays that get them in trouble. I think they should be benched for subpar play, heck I have been posting it for two months on Helm

But that is cool, hey the first time you're willing to actually critically evaluate these guys it will get a little more interesting. What doesn't AA get a pass from you on? I mean just point blank he has had terrible games this year, several of them and you seem unwilling really to admit that. Blame his linemates again I guess, but the dude didn't show up to work and didn't get a ton of time as a result, when he does and plays hard he is played extensively. It is right there in his usage, I don't think he is being treated unfairly at all this year.

It is easier to punish people for not trying, you see that everywhere in life and that has applied to AA and Mantha both in the past and at various points this year. I am hopeful he is turning the corner on that, he has been fantastic lately, I hope he continues to choose to be a difference maker night in and night out, he has tons of talent and potential.

 

[Redder Winger]

I have never hid from the fact that I am a believer in Blashill. I don't think it has worked out here and we are trending towards a change, but I still believe he can be successful in this league. Heck the guy that is his best friend and developed most of both of their coaching philosophies with which they readily admit is pacing the league in points. What is the difference there?

So your response was to bring up two players who really never can be questioned in terms of work ethic?

Helm getting run out has made little sense to me for a long time. I don't like him, but they also pretty constantly refer to him as a worker. Hate Blashill all you want but Babcock (who is treated like Coaching Jesus by many around here) said the same things about Abdelkader, Helm and Glendening. It isn't effort plays that get them in trouble. I think they should be benched for subpar play, heck I have been posting it for two months on Helm

But that is cool, hey the first time you're willing to actually critically evaluate these guys it will get a little more interesting. What doesn't AA get a pass from you on? I mean just point blank he has had terrible games this year, several of them and you seem unwilling really to admit that. Blame his linemates again I guess, but the dude didn't show up to work and didn't get a ton of time as a result, when he does and plays hard he is played extensively. It is right there in his usage, I don't think he is being treated unfairly at all this year.

It is easier to punish people for not trying, you see that everywhere in life and that has applied to AA and Mantha both in the past and at various points this year. I am hopeful he is turning the corner on that, he has been fantastic lately, I hope he continues to choose to be a difference maker night in and night out, he has tons of talent and potential.

I'm just not buying it.
If Athanasiou or Mantha don't cover their point man, it's laziness or Hockey IQ.
When it's Abdelkader covering nobody against Pittsburgh?
What about Nielsen just getting outworked/muscled by Crosby?
Or Helm's constant defensive zone turnovers?

My criticisms of AA are much the same as anyone else.
I want him to "skate through" the check and not pull up short and wave his stick.
I want him to get in lanes better to prevent clear outs or to prevent shots on goal.

I give him a pass on some of them complaints (he's a cancer, he has no hockey IQ, he's selfish, he doesn't use his linemates) because they're nothing but speculation by fans who don't like that he held out.

Again - the difference is that AA has gotten very little rope.
That's not about AA. That's about the coach.

I look back at last year's finish. Athanasiou had 4G and 4A in 10 games average nearly 15 minutes. Then Detroit loses to Tampa and boom.
Athanasiou finishes with the season with three games at 9:52/night.

It's a good way to help keep Athanasiou from scoring 20 goals. He finished with 18 - second on the team, anyway.

During those same three games, Riley Sheahan, who had zero goals and was minus a thousand on the season, he played 13+ minutes/game and he was -4.

Larkin, who had a miserable season, played 17:24 during those games.

So I don't buy the idea that Blashill is some master motivator and than Athanasiou needs tough love.

This moron Blashill has taken all the stupidity of Babcock but has none of his structure.