Speculation: Athanasiou Part 2

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Probably a one year deal in the neighborhood of $1.5M-$1.6M i would imagine.

 

[Reddwit]

Wonder if taking the one year deal is contingent on Holland then using his best efforts to trade him once he gets some games under his belt.

 

[TheMule93]

welp hes gonna be another contract to sign in the offseason

Green's departure will open some room I guess

 

[Shaman464]

Wondering if this is a sign and trade, if there is a trade in place, or if DD is going on the LTIR.

Also wondering if Blash goes full Babcock on Mike Commodore with AA.

 

[crashnburnluder]

My question is, do we need to make a trade before the deal is signed? Minute he signs and it's approved we go over the cap.

 

[Ezekial]

welp hes gonna be another contract to sign in the offseason

Green's departure will open some room I guess

Mrazek and Green can only pay for so much of Larkin/Mantha/AA though. LTIR number could be higher than 10% and Arizona won't be looking to add a floor contract as they have Bolland for 2 seasons.

 

[ShelbyZ]

Wonder if there is still any interest in Sheahan after he's been basically invisible all season, or if AA's deal is low enough to where Holland can bury Booth and Witkowski to make room in the short term...

 

[Ezekial]

My question is, do we need to make a trade before the deal is signed? Minute he signs and it's approved we go over the cap.

No, there isn't an instantaneous reaction for him to be added to the roster. There's kind of a "until the ink dries" type grace period.

 

[Shaman464]

My question is, do we need to make a trade before the deal is signed? Minute he signs and it's approved we go over the cap.

I believe they get 1 day after the contract is signed to square the cap.

 

[BinCookin]

My question is, do we need to make a trade before the deal is signed? Minute he signs and it's approved we go over the cap.

A move will be needed eventually... I expect Booth or Sheahan (booth is easiest)

 

[Winger98]

Dude doesn't have a contract.
He can't report to work without one.

How does this reflect badly on him?
If you look at some of the national writers, like Wyshinski, they put this on Holland's plate - not Athanasiou's.

Locally, the media are all glorified PR hacks for the Red Wings.

If you take your cues from them, well, they've done nothing but defend the Red Wings' stance in this negotiation. So I see why you disagree with Athanasiou.

But even allowing for that - how does that reflect poorly on the guy?

How many people this year are complaining about Jacob Trouba after last year's "hold-out."
How is it a hold out and not a lock out?

Language choice reveals bias.

I think stalemate is a good word.

Negotiations are a two-way street.

By every report Holland has moved significantly on his offer, and the speculated offers are on the nose fair when put up against Athanasiou's comps. Holding out after that makes him look bad, especially to other guys who are looking at him and thinking, "well, maybe I'd like to add him to my team. But he seems to be getting a very fair contract offer and he's holding out in Europe for more, and screwing his organization and team mates over in the process... ."

If you're going to put blame on Holland it has to be only because he started with an offer Athanasiou would very likely (and did, imo) see as low balling with that one year, $1.25m contract.

And for christ's sake, Wyshinski wrote yesterday (day before?) about how the glowing puck maybe isn't a stupid, god awful idea (it is). The guy's not a bad read, but that doesn't make him any better than the locals.

 

[Winger98]

A move will be needed eventually... I expect Booth or Sheahan (booth is easiest)

It depends on what he signs for. If it's $1.6m, we could waive a couple of guys (Booth and Jensen would be my guess) and hope no one gets injured in the short term. Or we can sit Kronwall down and explain to him how his knee is actually totally shot and he should be on LTIR. He won't listen, though.

 

[ShelbyZ]

Mrazek and Green can only pay for so much of Larkin/Mantha/AA though. LTIR number could be higher than 10% and Arizona won't be looking to add a floor contract as they have Bolland for 2 seasons.

Even if the cap ceiling doesn't increase, they still have around $16M to play with if they spend up to Franzens LTIR relief. Once those 3 forwards are signed, they have to sign Frk, which will probably be cheap, and Bertuzzi likely slides into the picture at a bit under $1M. Then they just need to worry about getting a #2 goalie (or they bring up Coreau for likely cheap) and have an opening on D (which could be filled with Russo at #7 for $650k).

 

[RedWingzz]

A move will be needed eventually... I expect Booth or Sheahan (booth is easiest)

Waiving Booth won't free up enough cap space though.

 

[Redder Winger]

By every report Holland has moved significantly on his offer, and the speculated offers are on the nose fair when put up against Athanasiou's comps. Holding out after that makes him look bad, especially to other guys who are looking at him and thinking, "well, maybe I'd like to add him to my team. But he seems to be getting a very fair contract offer and he's holding out in Europe for more, and screwing his organization and team mates over in the process... ."

If you're going to put blame on Holland it has to be only because he started with an offer Athanasiou would very likely (and did, imo) see as low balling with that one year, $1.25m contract.

And for christ's sake, Wyshinski wrote yesterday (day before?) about how the glowing puck maybe isn't a stupid, god awful idea (it is). The guy's not a bad read, but that doesn't make him any better than the locals.

There are two good comps, based on minutes and stats last year.
Burakovsky
Anderson

There's a $1.3M gap between them.

Sam Bennett played 33 percent more minutes.
Connor Brown played 60 percent more minutes.

I'm not saying Wyshinski is "smarter" or "better" than the locals.

I'm saying he's not beholden to the organization in any way.
Can't say the same for the locals, who appear very hesitant to appear critical of the organization -- as evidenced by the lack of "WTF is Holland doing?" stories over the last 3 years.

 

[ShelbyZ]

It depends on what he signs for. If it's $1.6m, we could waive a couple of guys (Booth and Jensen would be my guess) and hope no one gets injured in the short term. Or we can sit Kronwall down and explain to him how his knee is actually totally shot and he should be on LTIR. He won't listen, though.

Technically, Booth has already been waived and can be sent to GR without waivers again, I believe until 11/1.

Can't see them waiving Jensen after they protected him from Vegas. If they waive a Dman, Ouellet makes more sense. Jensens salary is also too high for them to be able to use the emergency exemption to recall him.

Waiving and/or burying Booth and Witkowski makes more sense as both can then be recalled under emergency exemption if needed.

 

[Ezekial]

Even if the cap ceiling doesn't increase, they still have around $16M to play with if they spend up to Franzens LTIR relief. Once those 3 forwards are signed, they have to sign Frk, which will probably be cheap, and Bertuzzi likely slides into the picture at a bit under $1M. Then they just need to worry about getting a #2 goalie (or they bring up Coreau for likely cheap) and have an opening on D (which could be filled with Russo at #7 for $650k).

Then we're golden pony boy. Maybe a minor move but nothing too drastic should NEED to be done.


And I mean not exactly golden but you get it.

 

[RedWingzz]

It depends on what he signs for. If it's $1.6m, we could waive a couple of guys (Booth and Jensen would be my guess) and hope no one gets injured in the short term. Or we can sit Kronwall down and explain to him how his knee is actually totally shot and he should be on LTIR. He won't listen, though.

Don't think we waive Jensen. That would be far too risky, Jensen would get picked up by somebody. He is definitely better than some NHL defencemen on other teams, and someone would certainly pick him up for their 3rd D pair.

Waiving both Booth and Witkowski won't free up enough space either. I have a feeling XO is going to get traded. I hope I'm wrong, but I could see him on the move. Maybe Kronwall will get "injured", and be placed on LTIR.

 

[Reddwit]

Technically, Booth has already been waived and can be sent to GR without waivers again, I believe until 11/1.

Can't see them waiving Jensen after they protected him from Vegas. If they waive a Dman, Ouellet makes more sense. Jensens salary is also too high for them to be able to use the emergency exemption to recall him.

Waiving and/or burying Booth and Witkowski makes more sense as both can then be recalled under emergency exemption if needed.

Jensen is also a cheap, fast RD who is having a statistically good start to the season. He's got 17 points in 56 NHL games. It'd be a waste of an asset to drop him on waivers. Someone would claim him given how minimal the risk is.

 

[Shaman464]

There are two good comps, based on minutes and stats last year.
Burakovsky
Anderson

There's a $1.3M gap between them.

Sam Bennett played 33 percent more minutes.
Connor Brown played 60 percent more minutes.

I'm not saying Wyshinski is "smarter" or "better" than the locals.

I'm saying he's not beholden to the organization in any way.
Can't say the same for the locals, who appear very hesitant to appear critical of the organization -- as evidenced by the lack of "WTF is Holland doing?" stories over the last 3 years.

Burakovsky and AA are about as far apart as two players can be. Just because a superficial glance at stat lines makes you think they are comparable it only shows us how biased you are.

As for minutes to production, again, because they played more minutes there are a few things to consider. #1 They are playing against better quality opponents, #2 Showed they could keep pace over a full season, #3 play different positions that mean that a few less points isn't a huge deal, or #4 play more complete games. There is more to the game than their stat lines. What players like Bennett bring beyond their scoring ability adds value. What players like AA do subtracts value.

 

[Winger98]

Don't think we waive Jensen. That would be far too risky, Jensen would get picked up by somebody. He is definitely better than some NHL defencemen on other teams, and someone would certainly pick him up for their 3rd D pair.

Waiving both Booth and Witkowski won't free up enough space either. I have a feeling XO is going to get traded. I hope I'm wrong, but I could see him on the move. Maybe Kronwall will get "injured", and be placed on LTIR.

I thought Jensen would be kept but I didn't realize he's playing a minute and a half less per game than XO, which really surprised me. When he was protected in the draft, I really thought he was going to get some solid minutes this year, but it hasn't panned out yet.

I keep hoping Glendening is moved somehow.

 

[BinCookin]

Waiving Booth won't free up enough cap space though.

mmmm.... must be a trade of Sheahan? I mean they could Ltir DDK to buy some time.

 

[njx9]

I keep hoping Glendening is moved somehow.

Of all the dead weight on the team, why the relatively cheap guy who eats (or should be eating) defensive minutes?

 

[Redder Winger]

Burakovsky and AA are about as far apart as two players can be. Just because a superficial glance at stat lines makes you think they are comparable it only shows us how biased you are.

As for minutes to production, again, because they played more minutes there are a few things to consider. #1 They are playing against better quality opponents, #2 Showed they could keep pace over a full season, #3 play different positions that mean that a few less points isn't a huge deal, or #4 play more complete games. There is more to the game than their stat lines. What players like Bennett bring beyond their scoring ability adds value. What players like AA do subtracts value.

18 goals in less than 900 minutes subtracts value? Neato.

 

[Redder Winger]

I thought Jensen would be kept but I didn't realize he's playing a minute and a half less per game than XO, which really surprised me. When he was protected in the draft, I really thought he was going to get some solid minutes this year, but it hasn't panned out yet.

I keep hoping Glendening is moved somehow.

I like Glendening as a 4C and PK.
I wish he made $1.2 instead of $1.8M. But he works hard. He skates reasonably well. He battles in the corners and finishes hits. He wins faceoffs. He's good on the PK. He can be a shadow/pest