Speculation: Athanasiou Part 2

[ShelbyZ]

I would bet Sheahan getting shipped out to the highest bidder is the most logical and realistic solution for opening space for AA. It's almost as if they prepared for it by not giving him a role in the top 9 or the 4C spot. Helm or Frk probably slide down to his 4W spot and they don't have to waive or demote anybody else.

 

[Winger98]

Of all the dead weight on the team, why the relatively cheap guy who eats (or should be eating) defensive minutes?

Because I don't think he's as good of a defensive player as he's made out to be, we can fill the fourth line either more cheaply or by shifting someone like Helm or Gator down as the team (hopefully) gets better, we're already seeing Larkin get more PK time than last year, and we need to find someway of getting $5m of value out of Nielsen (whose pretty good at the PK to boot, so it's not like we're shoe horning him in there).

Also, while Sheahan had an awful year last year, I still like him more and would rather see us give him another year to turn it around. If he doesn't, I doubt his trade value is going to get any worse so it's not a big deal on that front.

It's not that I see Glendening as someone we more desperately need to lose, it's that he's the guy I'm most okay with losing who gets us what we need (cap space). I agree with Shelby, though, that Sheahan is more likely to be moved, though.

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

It depends on what he signs for. If it's $1.6m, we could waive a couple of guys (Booth and Jensen would be my guess) and hope no one gets injured in the short term. Or we can sit Kronwall down and explain to him how his knee is actually totally shot and he should be on LTIR. He won't listen, though.

K. There is absolutely ZERO chance we waive Nic Jensen. Have you watched games this year?

 

[ShelbyZ]

Wildcard: Maybe they look into unloading Mrazek? Arizona seems to have lost trust in Domingue after Raanta went down, and Boston lost Rask to a concussion. Maybe somebody takes a chance if they retain around 25% of Mrazeks salary?

 

[BinCookin]

Wildcard: Maybe they look into unloading Mrazek? Arizona seems to have lost trust in Domingue after Raanta went down, and Boston lost Rask to a concussion. Maybe somebody takes a chance if they retain around 25% of Mrazeks salary?

For 1 year only id retain 50%

 

[Shaman464]

18 goals in less than 900 minutes subtracts value? Neato.

Nope, that's all the value he has though. Taking shifts off, not back checking and not playing in the system you're a part of subtracts value though.

 

[ShelbyZ]

For 1 year only id retain 50%

I think that would depend on what AA's cap hit ends up being. Need to factor in that part of the room opened up by dealing Mrazek also needs to allow for fitting in Coreau's salary.

 

[Shaman464]

I like Glendening as a 4C and PK.
I wish he made $1.2 instead of $1.8M. But he works hard. He skates reasonably well. He battles in the corners and finishes hits. He wins faceoffs. He's good on the PK. He can be a shadow/pest

For an FA 1.8 is a bit of an overpayment for what he brings but but a quarter to half a million overpayment for an FA is the least of Detroit's concerns. The millions in overpayments for Ericsson, Helm, and Abldekader are much worse.

 

[BinCookin]

-4Million + 1.5Million (AA) + 0.75Mil Coreau + (whatever maximum % we can then)

 

[Redder Winger]

Wildcard: Maybe they look into unloading Mrazek? Arizona seems to have lost trust in Domingue after Raanta went down, and Boston lost Rask to a concussion. Maybe somebody takes a chance if they retain around 25% of Mrazeks salary?

He's starting tonight.
I think it would foolish to trade Mrazek.

But I wouldn't mind seeing him going to a team with a competent coach and defense corps.

 

[Redder Winger]

For an FA 1.8 is a bit of an overpayment for what he brings but but a quarter to half a million overpayment for an FA is the least of Detroit's concerns. The millions in overpayments for Ericsson, Helm, and Abldekader are much worse.

I agree.
I'd toss Nielsen in there too.
Nielsen, from what I've seen, is a $3M player.

 

[Redder Winger]

Nope, that's all the value he has though. Taking shifts off, not back checking and not playing in the system you're a part of subtracts value though.

What system?
Who on this team is playing the system?
This team is best when Zetterberg is adlibbing. Or when Vanek was adlibbing. Or when Athanasiou gets the puck and goes end to end.

There's no system on this team.
Blashill is a joke.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

All the guys on the roster?

They're not just running around like chickens with their heads cut off, you know. A system doesn't mean "every pass they ever make is choreographed ". It's more like "here's how we set up our breakout." "Here's how we aim to limit the high danger scoring chances we give up."

You have the freedom to "ad-lib" in an offensive system. It's more about being where you need to be when you need to be there as opposed to setting a schedule for what you do when you're there. So, Z banking it off the goalie? That's planned. He's not doing it for S's & G's or doing it against the plan.

Breaking the system is something like a D pinching in but the forward doesn't rotate back to cover him. It's a forward getting caught down behind his own goalline to leave a wide open passing lane or the wing not being near the point to put pressure on the opposing D so that D can line up a perfect shot with impunity.

A guy taking the puck end to end is generally not a very good play... unless you're Pavel Datsyuk and you can just gain the zone at will because you're awesome. AA isn't that. Even if it works, it's a low percentage thing to do and generally it results in a one and done type of opportunity, which is terrible for trying to maintain offensive pressure.

In the NHL now, you're far more likely to score goals by maintaining pressure in the offensive end and getting a bunch of in-close chances than you are to have even a superstar level talent just put the team on his back du, and dipsy-doodle through everyone with a broken leg.

Especially on a team like the current Red Wings where the entire plan for the last five years was to play low event hockey, try to win games 2-1... you are generally better off by maintaining control of the puck and bouncing one in off something than hoping and praying that an AA shoots down the ice and does it himself.

 

[njx9]

Because I don't think he's as good of a defensive player as he's made out to be, we can fill the fourth line either more cheaply or by shifting someone like Helm or Gator down as the team (hopefully) gets better, we're already seeing Larkin get more PK time than last year, and we need to find someway of getting $5m of value out of Nielsen (whose pretty good at the PK to boot, so it's not like we're shoe horning him in there).

Also, while Sheahan had an awful year last year, I still like him more and would rather see us give him another year to turn it around. If he doesn't, I doubt his trade value is going to get any worse so it's not a big deal on that front.

It's not that I see Glendening as someone we more desperately need to lose, it's that he's the guy I'm most okay with losing who gets us what we need (cap space). I agree with Shelby, though, that Sheahan is more likely to be moved, though.

I guess that's fair, I just see his additive value on the 4th line as higher than Sheahan's anywhere (or Helm's now, or Abbie's). And I certainly don't think Glendening is anything special defensively - I just think those other guys are really mediocre (or bad) comparatively.

I'm also pessimistic that Helm and especially Abbie would ever spend more than token minutes on the 4th line.

And I think that I'd rather have Larkin contributing on the PP and at ES, rather than on the PK (since he's not going to get 24+ minutes a night, you have to choose to some degree) with Glendening on the PK than nearly anyone else on the PP just so Larkin can play mediocre defense. Totally fine to plug Nielsen in wherever, we might as well try to get some value out of his contract, but I don't think his usage has much to do with Glendening's.

If I'm being honest, the biggest risk I'd see to keeping Sheahan and shipping out Glendening (since nearly any scenario seems to involve either trading Sheahan or keeping him at someone else's expense), is that KH would resign Sheahan in the off-season, and I'd prefer to never see him in a Red Wings sweater again. He's a plug and I'd prefer he not become 'yet another' lifer plug.

 

[Redder Winger]

All the guys on the roster?

They're not just running around like chickens with their heads cut off, you know. A system doesn't mean "every pass they ever make is choreographed ". It's more like "here's how we set up our breakout." "Here's how we aim to limit the high danger scoring chances we give up."

You have the freedom to "ad-lib" in an offensive system. It's more about being where you need to be when you need to be there as opposed to setting a schedule for what you do when you're there. So, Z banking it off the goalie? That's planned. He's not doing it for S's & G's or doing it against the plan.

Breaking the system is something like a D pinching in but the forward doesn't rotate back to cover him. It's a forward getting caught down behind his own goalline to leave a wide open passing lane or the wing not being near the point to put pressure on the opposing D so that D can line up a perfect shot with impunity.

A guy taking the puck end to end is generally not a very good play... unless you're Pavel Datsyuk and you can just gain the zone at will because you're awesome. AA isn't that. Even if it works, it's a low percentage thing to do and generally it results in a one and done type of opportunity, which is terrible for trying to maintain offensive pressure.

In the NHL now, you're far more likely to score goals by maintaining pressure in the offensive end and getting a bunch of in-close chances than you are to have even a superstar level talent just put the team on his back du, and dipsy-doodle through everyone with a broken leg.

Especially on a team like the current Red Wings where the entire plan for the last five years was to play low event hockey, try to win games 2-1... you are generally better off by maintaining control of the puck and bouncing one in off something than hoping and praying that an AA shoots down the ice and does it himself.

You pretend Athanasiou can't carry the puck in and drop to a D or dump it in the corner.
You pretend there aren't other players on the line who can't carry the puck in.

I've seen Athanasiou and his linemates cycle and score.

Your narrative is old and tired.

 

[Sparty]

Friedman is reporting 1.35

 

[datsyukfan]

Friedman is reporting 1.35

Also heard holland is meeting with media at 6pm so not sure what that means

 

[Goalie guy]

We don't need Booth, Witkowski , Shebad, all of them gone makes room and cap for AA.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

You pretend Athanasiou can't carry the puck in and drop to a D or dump it in the corner.
You pretend there aren't other players on the line who can't carry the puck in.

I've seen Athanasiou and his linemates cycle and score.

Your narrative is old and tired.

When does he do that? If he CONSISTENTLY did that kind of stuff, HE WOULDN'T BE GETTING BENCHED. Coaches aren't in the habit of benching players for personal vendettas. And even if Blashill was benching him because of dislike and would maliciously harm the kid's career and indirectly harm his own, you can damn well bet that Hank and Kronner and all the other player leadership in the room would make it very evident to Blashill that he can't do that. Blashill isn't Babcock or Bowman who could get away with being a red-ass to a player and it get shuffled off as "that's what Babcock/Bowman do and if a player's getting lit up by the coach, he done ****ed up".

Seriously, it's one of two things. Either Blashill is maliciously harming a kid's career and ruining the team's chances which the veterans like Zetterberg and Kronwall, who have made it clear that extending the playoff streak was their #1 goal, are magically okay with or AA just simply isn't talented enough to not always dot the i's and cross the t's and be successful.

Sorry if I made my argument sound as though I think AA can't play hockey. I think he doesn't play it consistently enough and therefore either needs to buck up and work harder or I'm not very interested in him no matter his talent level.

 

[Redder Winger]

There's only so much time to go around.
You can't give Zetterberg the 20 minutes you need to keep your job, and give Larkin 16 minutes, and give Nielsen 16 minutes and still have time for Athanasiou. Not when you've got to give Abdelkader and Helm their minutes.

I just think it's total nonsense to criticize Athanasiou's work ethic and performance on a team like the Wings that rewards Sheahan for one of the worst seasons in modern history.
Where Larkin should have been in the AHL, perhaps, last year.
Where Tatar was pretty much useless until the last eight weeks of the season until he got hot on Z's line.

I'm prepared to hear all the complaints about Athanasiou.
But not in a vacuum. There needs to be context.
I'm a little tired of minor league coaching we watch, night in, night out.

 

[redwings8831]

 

[mouser]

My question is, do we need to make a trade before the deal is signed? Minute he signs and it's approved we go over the cap.

Wings need to clear the cap space before the NHL will approve AA's contract. There is no "grace period".

 

[Ezekial]

Damn, what about that whole waste of AA's time offering him 1x1.5?

 

[lhsgolf19]

First thing AA should do is Fire Ferris lol

 

[mouser]

Random observation: The season is 8.6% over. If AA is signed tomorrow at $1.387m he'll earn almost exactly $1.25m for the remainder of the season.

Coincidence? I don't think so.