Speculation: Athanasiou Part 2

[Shaman464]

So, Kazan retracted their offer and Omsk has given him one. To give you an idea, Omsk is the definition of middle of no where, 1400 miles from Moscow. And he'd only make about 2/3rds of the 2.5 he's offered, or 1.65 million dollars. Not really a great option.

As for Redder, we get you like AA, but he's a secondary scoring winger. He's not a player that compares to the top players in the league. His issue in this lies squarely on him.

 

[BinCookin]

And he'd only make about 2/3rds of the 2.5 he's offered, or 1.65 million dollars. Not really a great option.

Omsk has a KHL 2.5Million public offer right now?

 

[BinCookin]

That's the manager's damn job, Bin.
Holland knew what kind of cap situation he had this year. He knew about Ericsson. About Abdelkader. About Nielsen. About Helm.
And he knew he had to sign Tatar and Athanasiou.
So what does he do? He signs Daley.

I didn't say he did a good job, I said there is a reality of a "boat we are in situation".

Yes i think the contracts (many of them) on the team have been really poorly done, especially on term.

 

[Shaman464]

Omsk has a KHL 2.5Million public offer right now?

Khan reported Kazan retracted their offer (he was asking too much, apparently around 3 million, and it caused them to retract it), and Omsk came in with the current offer.

 

[Mijatovic]

As for Redder, we get you like AA, but he's a secondary scoring winger. He's not a player that compares to the top players in the league. His issue in this lies squarely on him.

Yes. When you play him 3rd/4th line minutes with scrubs. I would have liked to see him actually played where his skill set deserves.

 

[Shaman464]

Yes. When you play him 3rd/4th line minutes with scrubs. I would have liked to see him actually played where his skill set deserves.

You mean like Vanek, or Nielsen or Larkin or Nyquist?

 

[SpookyTsuki]

You mean like Vanek, or Nielsen or Larkin or Nyquist?

He played with bad players more.. and even so he never got any ice time in the game.

Probably cause he refuses to play defense but still

 

[Henkka]

If Athanasiou will sign on sunday, he'll miss 20 days of the regular season.

If he signs for 1.9M and 1st season salary is 1.7M and 2nd season salary is 2.1M, his caphits will be:

2.027M for 1st season
1.809M for 2nd season

In next two weeks we are reaching a point, where his caphit will grow bigger than Sheahan's caphit, and then trading Sheahan doesn't open enough cap space for him.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Omsk has a KHL 2.5Million public offer right now?

No they don't? That offer has been rescinded same as the Ak Bars offer as well.

 

[Shaman464]

He played with bad players more.. and even so he never got any ice time in the game.

Probably cause he refuses to play defense but still

No he didn't. Go back to the last thread, we literally spent pages debating this point with SG1. He spent a majority of his time with Nielsen and Vanek, and then with Larkin.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

No he didn't. Go back to the last thread, we literally spent pages debating this point with SG1. He spent a majority of his time with Nielsen and Vanek, and then with Larkin.

He still had terrible ice time. Not to mention the fact that Nielsen wasn’t very good. At best you can say he got 3rd liner ice time and that’s stretching it

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

He still had terrible ice time. Not to mention the fact that Nielsen wasn’t very good. At best you can say he got 3rd liner ice time and that’s stretching it

It's not remotely stretching it.

Averages from quick glancing around... obviously +/- a minute or two.

1st ~20 mins
2nd ~17 mins
3rd ~ 14 mins
4th ~ 11 mins

AA averaged third line ice time all season. He did this with virtually no PK time (33 minutes total) and limited PP time (77, I think?)

36/64 games, he got 14m+
47/64 games, he got 13m+

And I didn't peek into the exact timing of the lower games, but I wouldn't be surprised if those were the nail his ass to the bench for lack of effort games that were followed by him sitting the next one too.

Go by shifts (straight averages, no weighting)... he averaged about 19 shifts a game. Nyquist averaged 22. There were several games where Nyquist would have 22 shifts and rack up 16-17 minutes of IT. AA would have 22 shifts and get 13:05.

It really seems like AA is 35-40 secs and fly (would support the lack of defensive effort) whereas a guy like Nyquist is staying out there a little bit longer per shift.

 

[Henkka]

Athanasiou had 11:44 ice-time at even strength. That's typical 3rd line ES minutes in NHL.

From winger group:

1st liners
------------
Tatar 14:51
Nyquist 14:35

2nd liners
----------------
Mantha 13:57
Larkin 13:56
Abdelkader 13:07
--------------- this Group splitted the 2nd line Winger minutes, with Mantha and Abdelkader only 60 games and Larkin partially as a winger

3rd liners
----------
Sheahan 11:58
Vanek 11:45
Athanasiou 11:44

So Athanasiou got same ice-time as Vanek, pretty much 3rd line minutes. Same way as 2nd line group, Vanek was injured and had only half season, Athanasiou season was not full and Sheahan was only partially in here. Dropped on the 4th as season went on.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

It's not remotely stretching it.

Averages from quick glancing around... obviously +/- a minute or two.

1st ~20 mins
2nd ~17 mins
3rd ~ 14 mins
4th ~ 11 mins

AA averaged third line ice time all season. He did this with virtually no PK time (33 minutes total) and limited PP time (77, I think?)

36/64 games, he got 14m+
47/64 games, he got 13m+

And I didn't peek into the exact timing of the lower games, but I wouldn't be surprised if those were the nail his ass to the bench for lack of effort games that were followed by him sitting the next one too.

Go by shifts (straight averages, no weighting)... he averaged about 19 shifts a game. Nyquist averaged 22. There were several games where Nyquist would have 22 shifts and rack up 16-17 minutes of IT. AA would have 22 shifts and get 13:05.

It really seems like AA is 35-40 secs and fly (would support the lack of defensive effort) whereas a guy like Nyquist is staying out there a little bit longer per shift.

I’m just looking at the ES ice time averages. AA is way down there. But I suppose a lot of that is allotted to when the season was already over and being punished for not even trying defensively and anything else that isn’t scoring

 

[Henkka]

Athanasiou should be put on PK and to play 12min ES + 3min PK to get his 15 minutes.

 

[Ezekial]

Awful Eklund reported today that there are no longer KHL deals in front of him and Swiss league won't grant mid season out-clauses.

Again, it's Eklund so who knows.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Athanasiou should be put on PK and to play 12min ES + 3min PK to get his 15 minutes.

If you could trust him to skate his ass off and play with even adequate positioning? That would be a fantastic idea. He should be one hell of a PKer.

 

[Redder Winger]

You mean like Vanek, or Nielsen or Larkin or Nyquist?

His production and CF was good with most of the offensive players he played with.

His production and CF dipped with Glendening and Miller, etc.

Is that a surprise to anyone?

 

[Redder Winger]

Athanasiou should be put on PK and to play 12min ES + 3min PK to get his 15 minutes.

He should play 16-17 minutes when he's up to speed. 18 minutes when playing well. 15 when not playing very well
Dylan Larkin was awful in just about every way imaginable last year, using almost every metric available to us.
He played under 13 minutes 9 times.

We need Blashill to develop Athanasiou and Mantha the same ways.

Blashill never ripped Larkin once last year. Never questioned Larkin when Larkin dogged it on the backcheck leading to goals against. Never questioned the diving and yapping.
We need that same kind of attitude with Mantha and Athanasiou.
To not rip them in the paper when they screw up or don't play well.
To give them enough icetime to continue developing all aspects of their game.

 

[Shaman464]

He should play 16-17 minutes when he's up to speed. 18 minutes when playing well. 15 when not playing very well
Dylan Larkin was awful in just about every way imaginable last year, using almost every metric available to us.
He played under 13 minutes 9 times.

We need Blashill to develop Athanasiou and Mantha the same ways.

Blashill never ripped Larkin once last year. Never questioned Larkin when Larkin dogged it on the backcheck leading to goals against. Never questioned the diving and yapping.
We need that same kind of attitude with Mantha and Athanasiou.
To not rip them in the paper when they screw up or don't play well.
To give them enough icetime to continue developing all aspects of their game.

Larkin didn't dog the back check in the same way AA does. Larkin's problem wasn't lack of effort, it was adjusting to league adjustments to him.

Also there is no reason to play AA outside of the middle six (~15 minutes a night). Giving him near top line minutes when he's not willing to use his teammates or back check will be disastrous.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

His production and CF was good with most of the offensive players he played with.

His production and CF dipped with Glendening and Miller, etc.

Is that a surprise to anyone?

https://leftwinglock.com/line-combinations/?player1=andreas+athanasiou&flag=y

All 6% of the time he spent with Miller and 10% of the time he played with LGD?

Fun fact... AA played more with Henrik Zetterberg than he did with Drew Miller in 16-17.

I simply don't think the numbers bare out. He played 16% of his time with either Miller or LGD. There is no way that he was a huge plus without them and SO bad in the 138 minutes he played with them. He was a negative in the possession game.

 

[Shaman464]

https://leftwinglock.com/line-combinations/?player1=andreas+athanasiou&flag=y

All 6% of the time he spent with Miller and 10% of the time he played with LGD?

Fun fact... AA played more with Henrik Zetterberg than he did with Drew Miller in 16-17.

I simply don't think the numbers bare out. He played 16% of his time with either Miller or LGD. There is no way that he was a huge plus without them and SO bad in the 138 minutes he played with them. He was a negative in the possession game.

Redder likes AA to the point that facts don't matter. AA was a negative possession because he'd rather lose the puck than pass it. It wasn't because of his linemates.

 

[ShelbyZ]

At this point I'd just tell him to have fun in Europe for the year and not to worry since the same deal will be on the table next summer.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

At this point I'd just tell him to have fun in Europe for the year and not to worry since the same deal will be on the table next summer.

Pretty much. I don't want him coming in now with no training camp or anything. Have a catastrophic injury? I re-assess.

 

[Konnan511]

If Athanasiou will sign on sunday, he'll miss 20 days of the regular season.

If he signs for 1.9M and 1st season salary is 1.7M and 2nd season salary is 2.1M, his caphits will be:

2.027M for 1st season
1.809M for 2nd season

In next two weeks we are reaching a point, where his caphit will grow bigger than Sheahan's caphit, and then trading Sheahan doesn't open enough cap space for him.

I was always under the impression that his cap hit will go down. If he signed at the halfway point for 2mil, his cap hit wouldn't go to 4mil, it would be 1mil cap hit.