ATD2018 - Draft Thread 3

[BenchBrawl]

If I may suggest something for the post-draft goings-on (forgive me if this has already been discussed/decided)...

What if we keep the assassination thread as one thread (since that has been the tradition), and we keep that open for a limited period of time- one week, 2 weeks max. We keep it short to keep interest up and this place doesn't get stale and stagnant. Then we move onto the divisional regular season threads, where the teams in each division debate among themselves and argue why their team should be ranked first. After 1-2 weeks of that, we have the regular season voting. Then the playoffs go down as usual.

Thoughts?

I'm fine with whatever.I need time to finish my bios, might not have it if this ends too quick.

 

[jarek]

Yes that's the main problem with Giroux, his offense is heavily tilted towards the PP.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Yes that's the main problem with Giroux, his offense is heavily tilted towards the PP.

It's only a problem if he's playing top 6 here, which he wouldn't be on my team. As I said, he's an excellent bench option if I need to increase scoring in my bottom 6 and he can be a bottom 6 player that legitimately fits on a 2nd unit PP here.

Plus his numbers this year are only going to drive up his offensive value. The season should be nearly complete by the time voting happens so we should get a good idea where his VsX ends up.

 

[jarek]

It's only a problem if he's playing top 6 here, which he wouldn't be on my team. As I said, he's an excellent bench option if I need to increase scoring in my bottom 6 and he can be a bottom 6 player that legitimately fits on a 2nd unit PP here.

Plus his numbers this year are only going to drive up his offensive value. The season should be nearly complete by the time voting happens so we should get a good idea where his VsX ends up.

The issue with putting Giroux on the PP ahead of one of your other players is that now one of your other players (presumably more talented than Giroux) isn't on the PP.

 

[ImporterExporter]

The issue with putting Giroux on the PP ahead of one of your other players is that now one of your other players (presumably more talented than Giroux) isn't on the PP.

Don't presume then. And really it only helps me, because a player like Bun Cook (who is probably the odd man out) can then play more ES minutes. Because Giroux already has a better VsX by a good margin than Cook (7 year anyway) and is PP heavy player. I'd rather have Bunny playing an extra minute or so at ES given his style and defensive conscious per the testament of Frank Selke...

 

[Dreakmur]

Before we took Drillon on RW and moved Maltsev into the middle. Giroux was a guy along with Stamkos that I wanted to take as a bargain 2nd line center.

Think both guys can push their 7 season vs.X scores above 90 this season.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Before we took Drillon on RW and moved Maltsev into the middle. Giroux was a guy along with Stamkos that I wanted to take as a bargain 2nd line center.

Think both guys can push their 7 season vs.X scores above 90 this season.

Giroux absolutely is a 2nd line C in this (lower end of course) if you put the right wingers beside him which is easier given he's extremely slanted towards play making.

And I do think, barring injury, his VsX will go up at least to 85-87, plus the big jump will come in the 10 year version which I believe is just below 70 right now.

 

[BenchBrawl]

If I learned anything from 2016, is never do that.

 

[Dreakmur]

Giroux absolutely is a 2nd line C in this (lower end of course) if you put the right wingers beside him which is easier given he's extremely slanted towards play making.

That was the benefit of having Iginla and Maltsev. We could have used Iginla with Giroux. We also could have moved Iginla up with Sakic and used Maltsev and Stamkos' playmaker. Drillon just slipped too far, and we had to take him.

 

[overpass]

If you take Giroux you have to use him as a PP ringer. He's basically had Peter Forsberg's PP career already, minus 100 playoff games.

 

[Sturminator]

Having Sologubov and Kapustin on the team should also serve to help Krutov's mood as well. Gives him a couple of his fellow countrymen to hang out with.

Hopefully Krutov doesn't show them where all the best McDonald's are though.

Sologubov got a lot of respect from the younger generations of Soviet hockey players. He is the kind of man I'd expect Krutov to follow. I think he's a strong pick here. Certain Soviet players remain underrated.

 

[TorontoTrades]

Brian Campbell, can someone PM next I'm at work and not supposed to be on phone

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I PMed VI that he's OTC

 

[VanIslander]

The Railers select HHOF two-way center Marty Walsh, leading leagues in scoring, including the NHA in 1911 in both the regular season and Stanley Cup championship. It is his defensive play that will serve him best in a Bottom-6 role on an all-time great team.



Some of the many quotes (in the bio linked to his name above):

... checked back with tireless speed and great success... did a heap of useful defensive work... checked back with telling speed and was instrumental in breaking up twenty or thirty rushes... did a great deal of checking and was on top of the rubber from beginning to end... always checking back...

One of the best quotes (broken into two below to ensure you see it):

Marty Walsh sustained his long reputation at center, carrying the puck oftener than any man of the fourteen, breaking up attack after attack with surprising consistency and netting three of the Ottawa goals. By his work last night Marty wins out in the race for NHA scoring honours ... Walsh was repeatedly applauded for his clever work ...

Every time Lalonde grabbed the puck Pete Green would shout, "Get him Marty... get his body, he won't pass it" and Green's tip proved the correct one for Lalonde invariably retained the rubber until the Ottawa forward robbed him of it when Newsy would slap his stick on the ice in disgust.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

If I learned anything from 2016, is never do that.

Yeah, I had one draft where I got screwed for playing games with my centers. Best defense in the league, among the best wingers. Good goalie and coach. But centers sunk me.

 

[Namba 17]

I hoped I'd grab Walsh as spare

 

[VanIslander]

He deserves to be a starter.

 

[Namba 17]

He deserves to be a starter.

Absolutely

 

[Sprague Cleghorn]

IMO, D Jiri Bubla is the last D on the board that can be argued to be more than a bottom paring D.

 

[Sprague Cleghorn]

For those of you who have 20$ to spare, I'd highly recommend getting the one month sub for newspapers.com. It's a gold mine there. They've got the feature where you can search for specific words in a paper, unlike Google archives.

Highly worth it, especially for those players that played on the American teams pre-WW2. I'm doing a bio on Syd Howe with Namba's permission, and there's loads of stuff on him.

 

[VMBM]

Finally Novy. Congrats, seems like a good value at this stage; a great goal-scorer, and at least decent in some other areas.

Personally, I've always preferred Hlinka, probably because of his somewhat more solid/consistent international career*, but it's really hard to prove that he was a better player when comparing them on paper. For what it's worth, Hlinka was a born leader and seemed clearly more comfortable in the North American game (he was even further from his prime than Novy, but still did better in the NHL), and brought a little more to the table besides scoring.

* Having said this, Novy might have been a bit unlucky; in his prime in 1978 and 1979 (WHCs) he did not seem to be 100 % and missed some games. Also, there was a good center depth in Czechoslovakia in the early 1970s, so he was fairly old when he became a regular on Team CSSR in 1974-75. Even Hlinka truly established himself only around 1974, even though he had had some big performances already before that.

Until the 1980s, the Olympics doubled as the World Championships in years with Olympics

1968 was the last time when the Olympics doubled as the WHC. In 1972 and 1976 the Olympics and World Championships were played separately, and finally during the years 1980, 1984 and 1988 only Olympics.

 

[Theokritos]

I have those All-Stars data roughly 80% complete and I am and will be posting them on this forum over time.

Looking forward to seeing the full data.

Seconded!

The table I put together two years ago died in the migration...

It's still available here (post 13).

 

[VanIslander]

Finally Novy. Congrats, seems like a good value at this stage; a great goal-scorer, and at least decent in some other areas.

Thanks. I entered junior high school just after his back-to-back Golden Stick awards (was in Grade 2 when he first won it years before that), and there were only a handful of cards hotter than his (we used to throw cards against walls and if you knocked down a standing card you got it, otherwise you lost yours. I won a lot of card attempts before I lost the two Novy cards I ever had - in Kamloops. B.C.). I couldn't believe he dropped to 456th in the 19th round draft of all-time greats.

 

[Iceman]

So what happened to all the vsx data etc? The tables are broken from the merge. I saved very little myself.

 

[jarek]

Walsh is the guy I was thinking of moving McKenney to the wing for. Just didn't want to deal with the headache of proving McKenney can play the wing.. not for a 4th liner.