ResilientBeast
Proud Member of the TTSAOA
I'm interested in moving up from 331, if you want to move down a bit shoot me a pm
ATD2018 - Draft Thread 3
- Thread starter ImporterExporter
- Start date
Canadiens1958
Registered User
True. What is interesting is that your calculations support the observable. Even in the 1965 game 1 video presently viewable in the HOH.
Two comments.
Blake favoured multiple position skaters. As roster sizes increased he increased the number of versitile players that he had. Very few one position players during his tenure and they usually did not last long. Conversely multiple position players lasted longer - prime example Jean-Guy Talbot.
The Canadiens were the only teams that actively developed such players on their junior and minor league clubs. At one time former Canadiens farmhands filled d-man/forward key roles with Chicago(Murray Balfour, Reg Fleming, Bob Turner), New York(Irv Spencer), Detroit(Bryan Watson).
Batis
Registered User
I would say that this seems like a very fair summary of the PK abilities of the already drafted Soviet forwards. Although I would probably put Alexander Yakushev in the Viable Depth PKers group as well since I had a hard time deciding between Balderis and Yakushev when I made my ranking list of that era. At least as a maybe like Larionov. Yakushev was never a truly great penalty killer in my opinion but he had some fairly strong tournaments when it comes to shorthanded ice time finishes as he was tied for 2nd at the 1977 WHC, 4th at the 1976 WHC (just behind Maltsev and Kharlamov for 2nd and 3rd) and tied for 4th at the 1974 Summit Series. So while far from a outstanding penalty killer he was still a pretty solid one.
While I can't say whether they should be on 1st ATD PK units or not I can say that your guess that Jiri Holik and Vladimir Martinec were outstanding penalty killers is spot on. I have now started working on my study of the penalty killing of Czechoslovakian forwards during the time frame 1967-1990 by collecting all of the links to the boxplay shifts and so far (I have made it to the 1977 WHC) Jiri Holik and Vladimir Martinec are the players who have impressed me the most. I have not done any ice time estimations yet though.
ImporterExporter
"You're a boring old man"
As the person who drafted Martinec, I'd love to see what you have on him so far. If you get a chance, please shoot me a PM. It would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
Hawkey Town 18
Registered User
Going to bed but our pick (#323) is coming up soon.
If anyone is looking to move up you can PM me offers and I'll see them in the morning.
If anyone is looking to move up you can PM me offers and I'll see them in the morning.
TheDevilMadeMe
Registered User
Swamp Devils finish our top 9 forwards with a pair of strong two-way players:
Johnny Gottselig, LW
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/129894611/
Ignore the stuff speculating that Gottselig rarely played on the PP; we recently learned that it isn't true. It is true, however, that he played on the 2nd line behind Paul Thompson in an era when the 1st lines still saw the lion's share of offensive opportunities. Still, his offensive numbers are as strong as any LW left - 7 year VsX score of 74.8 is basically the same as Herbie Lewis and just a tad below Bun Cook, despite playing with much weaker linemates.
Gottselig was an excellent playoff performer, finishing 1st, 3rd, and 3rd in playoff scoring and leading a generally terrible 1938 Chicago team to the Stanley Cup in the biggest upset in playoff history.
He was also one of the few players of his era noted specifically for his penalty killing acumen.
The Gottselig - Maltsev duo will stickhandle opponents to death at both even strength and on the second wave of the Swamp Devils' PK.
Phil Goyette, C
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/130128691/
Goyette was buried by Montreal's depth, then was finally sent to the Rangers in his age 30 season, when he immediately became their #1 center, racking up several top 10 finishes and a very respectable VsX score of 75.2.
Goyette is one of the few players in recent years where an ATD bio actually changed my perception of him. I always assumed he was a responsible two-way player, but I always suspected some of the hype here was due to young Sturminator being a bit of a homer (no offense, we all are to an extent with players we grew up watching). To me, the recent bio really fleshes out Goyette's defensive ability with lots of outside sources that I personally had not seen before.
On the Swamp Devils, Goyette is reunited with Claude Provost, his partner on Montreal's checking line. In the modern 4-line game represented by the ATD, I think they'll be able to make use of their proven scoring abilities.
We may or may not use his ability to play the point on the power play.
Johnny Gottselig, LW
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/129894611/
Ignore the stuff speculating that Gottselig rarely played on the PP; we recently learned that it isn't true. It is true, however, that he played on the 2nd line behind Paul Thompson in an era when the 1st lines still saw the lion's share of offensive opportunities. Still, his offensive numbers are as strong as any LW left - 7 year VsX score of 74.8 is basically the same as Herbie Lewis and just a tad below Bun Cook, despite playing with much weaker linemates.
Gottselig was an excellent playoff performer, finishing 1st, 3rd, and 3rd in playoff scoring and leading a generally terrible 1938 Chicago team to the Stanley Cup in the biggest upset in playoff history.
He was also one of the few players of his era noted specifically for his penalty killing acumen.
The Gottselig - Maltsev duo will stickhandle opponents to death at both even strength and on the second wave of the Swamp Devils' PK.
Phil Goyette, C
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/130128691/
Goyette was buried by Montreal's depth, then was finally sent to the Rangers in his age 30 season, when he immediately became their #1 center, racking up several top 10 finishes and a very respectable VsX score of 75.2.
Goyette is one of the few players in recent years where an ATD bio actually changed my perception of him. I always assumed he was a responsible two-way player, but I always suspected some of the hype here was due to young Sturminator being a bit of a homer (no offense, we all are to an extent with players we grew up watching). To me, the recent bio really fleshes out Goyette's defensive ability with lots of outside sources that I personally had not seen before.
On the Swamp Devils, Goyette is reunited with Claude Provost, his partner on Montreal's checking line. In the modern 4-line game represented by the ATD, I think they'll be able to make use of their proven scoring abilities.
We may or may not use his ability to play the point on the power play.
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Sturminator
Love is a duel
Heh...I told you he was good. But yes, I am a sucker for old Rangers players.
RW Jimmy Ward.
Played on the Maroons' second line for the majority of his career. 2nd most SHP from 1933-34 to 1940-41, behind only N. Colville. Saw relatively little PP time, but still put up a very respectable 68.5 VsX score. Also, excellent defensively and was used to shadow the other team's top LWs. However, I wouldn't call him elite defensively like Ramsay, Gainey, Pulford etc. A tier or two below them.
Played on the Maroons' second line for the majority of his career. 2nd most SHP from 1933-34 to 1940-41, behind only N. Colville. Saw relatively little PP time, but still put up a very respectable 68.5 VsX score. Also, excellent defensively and was used to shadow the other team's top LWs. However, I wouldn't call him elite defensively like Ramsay, Gainey, Pulford etc. A tier or two below them.
Iceman
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ResilientBeast
Proud Member of the TTSAOA
Iceman
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jarek
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Not sure why Gary always goes before him.
... It was really that easy all along?
BraveCanadian
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ImporterExporter
"You're a boring old man"
ResilientBeast
Proud Member of the TTSAOA
ImporterExporter
"You're a boring old man"
ResilientBeast
Proud Member of the TTSAOA
The Oilers will complete their top 9 with a strong even strength scorer, pest and defensive player with the selection of Tony Leswick, LW/RW
As an overall player
3 x Stanley Cup Champion (1952, 1954, 1955)
Second Team All-Star (1950)
6 x NHL All-Star (1947, 1948, 1949, 1950, 1952, 1954). First 4 on merit.
Points – 17th(1948), 17th(1950), 19th(1947)
Goals – 6th(1947), 9th(1948), 17th(1950)
Assists – 16th(1950)
Points on his team (in a 6-team era): 1st (1947), 1stT (1950), 3rd (1948), 5th (1946), 5th (1949)
TDMM's Old bio
Patrik Elias --- Cyclone Taylor --- Charlie Conacher
Sweeney Schriner --- Norm Ullman --- Cecil Dillon
Tony Leswick --- Cooney Weiland --- Corey Perry
This will allow Blake the option of creating a shut down line by switching Dillon and Perry if he so chooses.
As an overall player
3 x Stanley Cup Champion (1952, 1954, 1955)
Second Team All-Star (1950)
6 x NHL All-Star (1947, 1948, 1949, 1950, 1952, 1954). First 4 on merit.
Points – 17th(1948), 17th(1950), 19th(1947)
Goals – 6th(1947), 9th(1948), 17th(1950)
Assists – 16th(1950)
Points on his team (in a 6-team era): 1st (1947), 1stT (1950), 3rd (1948), 5th (1946), 5th (1949)
TDMM's Old bio
Patrik Elias --- Cyclone Taylor --- Charlie Conacher
Sweeney Schriner --- Norm Ullman --- Cecil Dillon
Tony Leswick --- Cooney Weiland --- Corey Perry
This will allow Blake the option of creating a shut down line by switching Dillon and Perry if he so chooses.
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VanIslander
A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
This is significant.
Indeed. Thanks for that.
Clearly he had three good years: 1947, 1948 and 1950.
Sturminator
Love is a duel
As best I can tell, among the guys with his level of defensive ability and intangibles, Leswick was the highest scoring winger left.
VanIslander
A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Not even close, if you also weigh in the playoffs (do you ignore it? I weigh it EQUALLY, that is 50/50), especially given this is about hockey history and honoring what players have done!
And don't get me started on internationals and early era greats.
Too much NHL gazing around here sometimes, for an all-time draft meant to represent the best of the sport in every era everywhere.
Sturminator
Love is a duel
Leswick scored quite well in the playoffs for a "checker" of that era, including the Cup winner in 1954, game 7 overtime. My guess is you're underrating Leswick's defensive ability here, and comparing his scoring with guys who couldn't hold his strap as checkers.
ImporterExporter
"You're a boring old man"
Leswick doesn't bring much offense to the table does he? What can he realistically provide there in an ATD setting?
ResilientBeast
Proud Member of the TTSAOA
He brings some not tons, not trying to sell him that way. His job is to play responsible hockey, annoy other teams start players and occasionally notch a goal or two.
