ATD 2017 Assassination Thread

Sprague Cleghorn

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Aug 14, 2013
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Thanks, finally another review! :handclap:

Leadership:

Really solid set of personel that you put fourth as leaders on this team. Kennedy seems like a Yzerman-like leader, maybe not in a longevity sense but as a tremendous hard worker on the ice and the resumé that they have as leadership.

Have you considered giving a letter to a dman? Have those guys have one of their own to go to if they are having a tough set of games.

That's a good question, but if I did put one one my A's on a D, who do I strip one of my current A's from? Lalonde was the C for the Habs for eight years, and was noted as one of the best leaders during his era. Cook was the captain of the Rangers for nine years, and he led them to two Cups and he was also noted as one of the better leaders of his era.

Special Teams:

I think your first unit PP unit should be really tough to play against in most situations but do they have that game breaking offense to be a lethal threat on the PP?

Cook looks like the game breaker on that unit to me. Maltsev and Lalonde are probably average offensively for 1st PP unit FWs.

PK wise you look pretty set to go but I have questions, is Finnigan 1st PK material? What do we know about his abrasiveness?

Finnigan is definitely 1st unit PK forward material. He was named the best defensive forward and the best penalty killer of the 1930s by Ultimate Hockey. Even if you don't agree with him as THE best, he should be at worst top-5 in both those categories for the 1930s.

First line:

Cook and Lalonde are phenomenal players that would make any team better. They bring physicality and are really tough to play against on top of providing great offense. What does George Hay bring to this line? If he is there to bring offense, I think he is better as a 2nd line winger but if his two-way game is strong enough I think he would compliment Cook and Lalonde well.

Hay is definitely better as a 2nd line LW. However, I think he got the shorthand of the stick on the HOH Top-W list, since he didn't even appear on enough preliminary lists to warrant discussion. With what we know about him now, I think he should be in that 55-60 range of the list, but nonetheless, that still makes him a 2nd line LW ideally.

As to what Hay provides to the line, he's there as a defensive conscience and to act as a glue guy, albeit a non-traditional one. Jack Adams called him "one of the easiest players I've had to handle", which speaks to his ability to be a good team player. He's actually not that bad offensively too. He's most likely a top-100 player offensively.

1st pairing:

Decent first pairing. Horton is another guy I always wanted but things never line up. :laugh:

They bring good two-way game but can they keep Richard and Jagr (both in your division) from taking over? Other than that, I think they will do just fine. They don't have that elite ATD dman but there is no weak link here with an below-average #1 and an above average #2.

I believe they can at least minimize some of the damage those two will do. Richard and Jagr are two really strong players that could out muscle guys. However, Horton and Stuart are two really big guys, and Horton was noted in particular for his "Herculean" strength. Richard and Jagr will not have as an easy time to impose their physical will while on the offense against my #1 pairing. Also, both guys could skate, so they're not going to be beaten on the rush too often.

Goaltending:

Average to slightly-above average starter. Should the job well in a good tight system. Your backup is kinda meh, I think you could've afforded to pick one earlier. While he didn't miss much as a starter, what is his role here?

His role is to be a back-up?

But seriously, my back-up G is definitely not one of the strengths of my team. However, Gardiner was a work-horse in real life, and this should limit Kerr's playing time. But, Kerr isn't that bad. IMO, once you get around the 35th best G of all-time, the separation between goalies is pretty small. Sure, he's below average because someone has to be in a relative comparison, but how much worse is he than someone like Thomas?
 

jarek

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Have you considered giving a letter to a dman? Have those guys have one of their own to go to if they are having a tough set of games.

I'm not quite sure that's how leadership works. A guy doesn't need a letter to be a "go-to" guy in the locker room.
 

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I just so happened to be browsing the ATD forum tonight. I was able to do this in Excel in about five minutes. Here's the top 50. Apologies in advance if this contains any undrafted players (I'd have to think that after the end of a draft with 600+ players, every one of these has already been selected).

Top fifty defensemen - "VsX" in Norris trophy voting - 1954 to 2016

Rank | Player | VxS
1 | Bobby Orr | 23.7
2 | Ray Bourque | 19.6
3 | Doug Harvey | 19.5
4 | Nicklas Lidstrom | 15.6
5 | Denis Potvin | 9.7
6 | Pierre Pilote | 9.3
7 | Chris Chelios | 8.6
8 | Paul Coffey | 8.5
9 | Brian Leetch | 7.4
10 | Brad Park | 6.9
11 | Zdeno Chara | 6.7
12 | Larry Robinson | 6.7
13 | Al MacInnis | 6.5
14 | Bill Gadsby | 5.9
15 | Red Kelly | 5.6
16 | Tim Horton | 5.4
17 | Scott Stevens | 5
18 | Chris Pronger | 4.6
19 | Borje Salming | 4.6
20 | Jacques Laperriere | 4.5
21 | Rod Langway | 4.4
22 | Shea Weber | 4
23 | Scott Niedermayer | 3.9
24 | Marcel Pronovost | 3.8
25 | Drew Doughty | 3.5
26 | Duncan Keith | 3.4
27 | Mark Howe | 3.4
28 | Doug Wilson | 3.4
29 | Rob Blake | 3.4
30 | Erik Karlsson | 3.2
31 | Carl Brewer | 2.8
32 | Tom Johnson | 2.7
33 | Harry Howell | 2.6
34 | JC Tremblay | 2.6
35 | Allan Stanley | 2.5
36 | Guy Lapointe | 2.4
37 | Mike Green | 2.2
38 | Larry Murphy | 2.1
39 | Sergei Gonchar | 2
40 | PK Subban | 1.9
41 | Fern Flaman | 1.9
42 | Bill White | 1.8
43 | Ryan Suter | 1.7
44 | Kris Letang | 1.6
45 | Pat Stapleton | 1.5
46 | Serge Savard | 1.5
47 | Phil Housley | 1.5
48 | Vladimir Konstantinov | 1.3
49 | Doug Mohns | 1.3
50 | Jim Neilson | 1.3

Yes, Bobby Orr still breaks the scale. I found it interesting how close Bourque and Harvey are - separated only by a decimal point.

Brad Park, who had the misfortune of finishing second to Orr four times (and twice more to Potvin) gets a solid boost.

Taking into account his years before the Norris trophy existed, Red Kelly would at least move past Chelios, and possibly as high as fifth place.



This is a fair point. To be clear I took the voting data, as it existed, without any modifications. What you're suggesting, although probably useful, would probably take closer to five weeks than five minutes.

Nice to show how good Chara is at #11.
 

Iceman

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I'm not quite sure that's how leadership works. A guy doesn't need a letter to be a "go-to" guy in the locker room.

Then leadership is vastly overrated. That's why it's used for marketing in the NHL today (see; McDavid).
 

jarek

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Then leadership is vastly overrated. That's why it's used for marketing in the NHL today (see; McDavid).

I looked into this earlier during the ATD.

The leadership group and the players named the captain and assistant captains should not be considered the same thing. The captains, in an official capacity, do little more than act as a medium between the coach and referee. There might be a few other things but that's essentially it.

In the locker room, the true leadership group may not necessarily be the guys with the letters. I mean, does anyone really think players go to Connor McDavid when they're in a state of crisis and need some advice? I would think they'd be much more likely to talk to Milan Lucic, Andrej Sekera or Benoit Pouliot - guys who have experienced the ups and downs of an NHL season and know how to make it to the end. Or even in Toronto - JVR, Bozak and Komarov are guys the young players are much more likely to go to than anyone else if they need advice during the season.

Like you said, Connor McDavid sporting the C should be considered little more than a marketing ploy. Same thing for when Matthews is named the captain next season. That the "experts" keep clamoring for these guys to be named the captains of their respective teams is just flat out stupid. Why would you want these players to focus on anything other than becoming the best they can be? There will be more than enough career remaining to carry the "C" once they become ready for it.

If you ask me, this is part of the reason there is so much dysfunction in Colorado - I do not believe Landeskog was named the captain because he was a good choice for it. Quite simply, they have no leadership over there.

Just to be clear, my comments shouldn't be taken to mean that I believe no player under the age of, say, 25, should automatically be discarded as a candidate for the captaincy. If he's ready for it, then go ahead and give it to him. Do I think McDavid and Matthews are ready for it? They very well may be - they certainly carry themselves the proper way, for the most part. Matthews moreso than McDavid.. the McDavid-Manning fiasco was rather unbecoming of a guy expected to hold a leadership role if you ask me.
 
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Sprague Cleghorn

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Aug 14, 2013
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HC_Dukla_Jihlava_logo.png


Coach: Anatoliy Tarasov
Assistant Coach: Billy Reay

George Hay - Newsy Lalonde (A) - Bill Cook (A)
Vladimir Krutov - Ted Kennedy (C) - Aleksandr Maltsev
Rick Nash - Neil Colville - Harry Oliver
Tony Leswick - Steve Kasper - Frank Finnigan
Dave Trottier, Claude Giroux

Hod Stuart - Tim Horton
Jim Neilson - Red Horner
Rod Seiling - Pat Egan
Gennadiy Tsygankov

Charlie Gardiner
Dave Kerr

PP1
Newsy Lalonde - Aleksandr Maltsev - Bill Cook
Pat Egan - Hod Stuart

PP2
Vladimir Krutov - Ted Kennedy - Harry Oliver
Tim Horton - Red Horner

PK1: Steve Kasper - Frank Finnigan - Jim Neilson - Tim Horton
PK2: Neil Colville - Tony Leswick - Hod Stuart - Rod Seiling

Forward Minutes
Player | ES | PP | PK | Total
Lalonde |14| 5 | 0 | 19
Cook| 14 | 5 | 0 | 19
Hay | 14 | 0 | 0 |14
Krutov| 14 | 2 | 0 |16
Kennedy| 14 | 2 | 0 | 16
Maltsev | 14 | 5 | 0 | 19
Nash| 12 | 0 | 0 | 12
Colville| 12 | 0 | 3 | 15
Oliver| 12 | 2 | 0 | 14
Leswick| 6 | 0 | 3 | 9
Kasper| 6 | 0 | 4 | 10
Finnigan | 6 | 0 | 4 | 10
TOTAL | 138 | 21 | 14 | 173

Defensemen Minutes
Player | ES | PP | PK | Total
Horton | 19 | 2 | 5 | 26
Stuart| 19 | 5 | 2 | 26
Neilson| 15 | 0 | 5 | 20
Horner| 14 | 2 | 0 | 16
Egan| 12 | 5 | 0 | 17
Seiling | 13 | 0 | 2 | 15
TOTAL | 92 | 14 | 14 | 120


Self assassination

First line: Lalonde and Cook are a proven duo as both played together in Saskatoon. They both spent two seasons together, and in those two seasons, both finished top-10 in scoring every year, including a WCHL scoring title (which could very possibly be upgraded to a consolidated scoring title) for Cook. This is particularly impressive as Lalonde was an old man by then, and Cook was new on the scene. If both players were able to accomplish this when one was past his prime and one was only entering it, then consider how much more awesome they would have been together if they were both in their primes. Hay is on this line as the glue guy. Hay was good defensively, and he was noted as an easy player to coach by perhaps the most difficult coach to play for, Jack Adams. This means that Hay will be doing the little things to keep the Lalonde-Cook engine running smoothly. Also, Hay will not be a complete black hole offensively as I strongly believe he is at least top-110 offensively. Cook is firmly a top-5 RW of all-time, cementing him as an elite 1st line RW. Lalonde is somewhere in the 10-15 range on a C list, making him average. The biggest weakness on this line is Hay, who should be 25-30th on a LW list, which obviously makes him a very weak 1st liner. Despite the lack of talent from Hay, he's a good fit from a chemistry standpoint for the reasons I stated above. Overall, the talent level of this line is slightly below average but with great chemistry.

Second line: I'm going to go ahead and say it. I firmly believe I have the best 2nd line in the draft, at least from a talent perspective. In a draft this size, Kennedy is a passable 1st line C. But I have Kennedy on my 2nd line, and since he's usually ranked in the late teens or early 20s on top centres list, Kennedy could be classified as a super elite 2nd line center. Krutov was the 23rd highest ranked LW on the HOH project. Like Kennedy, Krutov could easily pass as a weak 1st line LW, but in a 2nd line LW role, he too is super elite. Maltsev is tougher to gauge since he was ranked as a C on the HOH project, and not as a W. However, if we were to transpose his ranking to a W list, and more specifically a RW list, Maltsev should be ranked in the late teens on a RW list. Maltsev was drafted right in between Bure and Martinec, whom according to the HOH project were the 16th and 17th ranked RWs. Another way you could look at it is that Maltsev is in the same range as Gilmour or Francis. On an all inclusive list, both players would probably be ranked in the same range as Martinec and Bure. Now, since Maltsev should be ranked in the late teens on a top RW list, this would make him a below average 1st line RW, and you guessed it, in a 2nd line role, he is massively overqualified. So, basically I have three guys that could form a passable 1st line playing as a 2nd line. Chemistry wise, these guys should also be an excellent fit. I believe I have kind of re-created the Green Unit with these three players. Krutov is obviously Krutov. Kennedy is smart, has amazing passing abilities and was great defensively, all of which were attributes that Larionov was known for, except with Kennedy these attributes have been upgraded. Maltsev is not as explosive as Makarov, but he has speed, and was pretty balanced offensively, and according to Theokritos, Maltsev worked best when paired with a defensive minded C, whom I have in Kennedy. Overall, this line is not only one of the best 2nd lines in the draft, but it is possibly THE best, and the chemistry should be great to watch.

Third line: I went with a more offensively oriented third line. I think this is the line that I will have to prove to other GMs the most, so here goes. Colville is pretty good defensively and for a third liner, his offense is pretty good too, particularly his playmaking. Colville will be the "general" of his line. Nash is there as a physical presence, and he will be amazing as the guy doing the little things. Nash was repeatedly selected to play for Canada at the highest level, and the main reason surely was not because he brought offense. If you watched Nash during the Olympics (or any game really), if he's not scoring, he'll at least be a fore checking beast and/or being good defensively. To me, he looks like an ideal glue guy. And on top of that, his offense is actually not that bad too. According to seventies EVS VsX data for bottom sixers, Nash slotted in the top half of the chart, so he should be at least above average offensively in his role. Nash's shot combined with Colville's playmaking could do a lot of damage. Oliver is probably the most controversial player in my starting lineup since I bumped him up quite a bit on the draft list. Hopefully, my updated bio on Oliver has improved his image in the eyes of some GMs. But, in terms of chemistry Oliver should also fit like a glove with Nash and Colville. When I was researching Oliver, in addition to his speed being mentioned (which is nothing new), was his ability to work in what the papers called "combination plays". Oliver's playstyle was not similar to that of Bure's where he would use his speed to blaze through the zone, and forget he also had four other guys on the ice with him. Also, Oliver did not seem to be simply a perimeter player as there were numerous mentions of him going into what could be classified as the "dirty" areas of the ice. And on top of that, I also believe that Oliver should be classified as average to good defensively due to the research I did on him, so he's not going to be a defensive black hole. To me this line kind of looks like the Bread Line 2.0 version with the Colville brothers and Shibicky. Colville is Colville, Nash is the glue guy like Mac, and Oliver is a vastly upgraded version of Shibicky. Talent wise, Colville is a slightly above average 3rd line C, Nash is an average 3rd line LW, and Oliver I'd personally say would be super elite, and I'm not just saying that because I'm the GM that picked him. If you're looking for a 2nd line scoring option, there's probably no reason that Oliver should be going 200+ spots after guys like Mosienko, Mogilny, Gartner, Bauer etc. I know Sturminator will not be pleased with this, but seventieslord calculated Oliver's total VsX score to be around 75, which is either on par or better than the above guys.

Fourth line: Your standard checking line. There's not much offense that is to be coming out from these guys, but they should do an excellent job of shutting things down if required. All three guys were known as excellent defensive players during their playing careers. Kasper has a Selke, Finnigan was a top-5 defensive forward of the 1930s and possibly THE number one, and Leswick was awarded a Retro Selke, and was known to do a good job of throwing Howe off his game. Judging these guys from a talent perspective is a little bit tougher for me. Going off the draft list, I traded Rousseau for Leswick. Usually these guys are picked pretty closely together, so their value must almost be equal. I think Rousseau is an above average 3rd line RW, which would either mean Leswick is also an above average 3rd line RW, or slightly worse. Kasper is probably a good 4th line C. As for Finnigan, if I were to go off the draft list, he was picked around the same time as Amonte, C. Lemieux, and Doan, and if I were to guess, those guys are average to below average 3rd line RWs.

1st Defense: I'll switch things around and start with talent first. Horton is a slightly below average #1 D, while Stuart is an average #2 D. The sum is a slightly below average #1 pairing. Although Horton is a slightly below average #1 D, if we were to judge Ds only by their defense, Horton could very well be top-10 all time in that department. With Stuart, Horton's main job will be to play defense, and he will not have to worry as much as to also be the offensive catalyst on the back end, which will kind of negate his biggest weakness in an all-time sense. Now, both guys are huge, and Horton was particularly noted for his strength. Opposing FWs will not be able to easily outmuscle my 1st pairing, whether it be along the boards, in the corners or in front of the net. Even though both guys were big, they were not simply coke machines. Both Stuart and Horton were known as good skaters, even more so for Stuart, who could be classified as elite in that department. Stuart's skating ability will help combat strong fore checking units and be a great strength in transitioning the offense. However, if Stuart does get bogged down, Horton can also fill that role semi-decently.

Second pairing: This is the weakest point of my team. Neilson is an average #4, while Horner is an above average #4. With no true #3, this pairing is not where it could be from a talent perspective. But, chemistry wise there shouldn't be much of a problem. I feel Neilson is the perfect guy to pair with a loose cannon like Horner. This is a prototypical offensive defenceman paired with a defensive defenceman pairing. Both guys could skate so the "ring it around the boards and pray it goes out" play should be limited with these two. Both were also very strong so they shouldn't get out muscled too much.

Third pairing: Another prototypical offensive defenceman paired with a defensive defenceman pairing. Seiling and Egan are probably both average #5s, so I think I did good here. Seiling was noted as being one of the more outstanding defenceman defensively in his era. However, one criticism that Seiling received was his perceived lack of physical play. This is remedied by pairing him with the ultra tough Egan. Egan was known for his hard checks and unforgiving physical play. Both guys could also skate, and Seiling had a pretty amazing first pass, so getting out of our defensive zone shouldn't be a significant problem with these two on the ice.

Goalies: Not much to say except that Gardiner is an average starter with Kerr being below average.

Powerplay: If we were to assign the top-75 offensive players as the standard for FWs, Cook would be elite, Lalonde and Maltsev would be above average. With the same principle applied for D, Stuart is below average for a #1 D PP option, and according to seventies, Egan's VsXD is good enough to be an average #2 D PP option. So, again basically an average PP unit. The net presence role can either be filled by Lalonde or Cook. Maltsev is the playmaker. The sniper's role can again be either Lalonde or Cook. On the point, Egan has a massive shot.

As for the 2nd unit, Kennedy would be average, Krutov either slightly above average or average, and Oliver would be above average. According to VsXD, Horton is a good #2 PP option, and I have him in a #3's role so he's more than qualified here. Horner is good in a #4 role.

Penalty Kill: I believe this one of the other strengths of my team. On my first unit, I have Finnigan who was listed as the best PKer of the 1930s by Ultimate Hockey. Even if you don't agree with him being #1, you have to at least agree to him being top-5. Kasper killed 49% of his team's penalties, and his teams were on average 8% better than others. Horton is arguably a top-10 on a list that only includes defensive play from defenceman. Neilson killed 43% of his team's penalties post expansion and he's probably average as a #2 PK D.

On the second unit I have Colville, Leswick, Seiling and Stuart. Colville was noted for his PKing during his time. In particular, he was noted for utilizing a PK strategy called offensive PKing, which was highly effective back then. I have Leswick on my 2nd PK unit, and he could easily be a great #1 PK option. With Leswick's speed, Colville could put into practice his offensive PK strategy. Stuart is probably fine as a #3 PK D. Seiling could also be a #3 PK D. He killed 49% of his team's penalties, and his team's PK was 6% better than average.

Coaching: Tarasov is a top-10 coach of all-time. I believe the crew that I have assembled will be able to fit into Tarasov's system quite nicely. All of them can skate (with the exception of Kennedy), and can play an east-west game. If Tarasov decides to implement his 2-2-1 system, he will be able to do so in an efficient manner since every unit has the required components (two attackers, two midfielders, and a stay at home guy). However, Tarasov can be a bit demanding and I have brought along Reay to act as an intermediate. Reay worked with Tarasov on Rob Scuderi's 2015 championship team, so no problems here right?
 

jarek

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Aug 15, 2009
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I'd be interested to know exactly how much RW Maltsev played. At this time, I don't believe there's any way to directly correlate his center ranking among wingers.
 

Theokritos

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I'd be interested to know exactly how much RW Maltsev played.

Major international tournaments where Maltsev played (mostly or exclusively) RW: 1970 World Championship, 1972 Olympics, all World Championships from 1973 to 1978, 1973 World Championship, 1974 WHC, 1975 WHC, 1976 Olympics, 1977 WHC, 1978 WHC, 1981 Canada Cup. (I don't have the line-ups from the 1980 Olympics plus 1979 to 1983 WHCs, so I can't tell whether he played RW or C there.)

Why do I think he's better at RW?

-1970 World Championship:

Vyacheslav Starshinov: "I think that Maltsev's successful performance was in part made possible by moving him from center to the wing, in other words: freeing him from the work load of defensive duty. At the center position he easily got tired in the past so that he was not always ready to follow through with an attack. In the role of a winger all of his energy went into the attack."

-On the Kharlamov - Maltsev - Vikulov line:

... in his book Kharlamov implies that the line was never quite as harmonious and devastating as their stats and accolades in that season might suggest; he talks about how the dynamics on the unit changed when Maltsev replaced Firsov (ntl team), meaning that Firsov had been much more defensive-minded player and now there were just three offensive forwards in the unit.
 
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VMBM

And it didn't even bring me down
Sep 24, 2008
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Major international tournaments where Maltsev played (mostly or exclusively) RW: 1970 World Championship, 1972 Olympics, all World Championships from 1973 to 1978, 1981 Canada Cup. (I don't have the line-ups from the 1980 Olympics plus 1979 to 1983 WHCs, so I can't tell whether he played RW or C there.)

In the 1976 World Championships, he played together with Mikhailov and Kharlamov (5 games, until he got injured), because Petrov had been left off the team (for 'disclipinary measures', I believe). I don't think he played RW in that tournament, or at least I'd think that was very much Mikhailov's position (I've never heard Mikhailov playing in any other position). In the only game from the tournament I've seen, the famous USSR vs Poland match, it looks like Kharlamov is playing at centre, or at least he is constantly handling the face-offs, so I don't know.

No need to worry about the 1979 WHC, as he was injured at the time and did not play in the tournament (missed the Challenge Cup that season too).
EDIT: In the 1980 Olympics, Yuri Lebedev centered Maltsev (RW) and Krutov (LW).
In the 1981 WHC, he played with Vladimir Golikov and Nikolai Drozdetsky. Golikov was the center, and I guess Maltsev was the RW, even though Drozdetsky was a career RW too.
In the 1982 WHC, he did not play.
In the 1983 WHC, he played together with Vyacheslav Bykov and Mikhail Vasiliev. Bykov was definitely the center, Maltsev probably the RW, Vasiliev LW.
 
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Theokritos

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In the 1976 World Championships, he played together with Mikhailov and Kharlamov (5 games, until he got injured), because Petrov had been left off the team (for 'disclipinary measures', I believe). I don't think he played RW in that tournament, or at least I'd think that was very much Mikhailov's position (I've never heard Mikhailov playing in any other position). In the only game from the tournament I've seen, the famous USSR vs Poland match, it looks like Kharlamov is playing at centre, or at least he is constantly handling the face-offs, so I don't know.

My bad, I got the 1976 World Championship mixed up with the 1976 Olympics. Yes, Maltsev played C instead of Petrov at the 1976 WHC.

No need to worry about the 1979 WHC, as he was injured at the time and did not play in the tournament (missed the Challenge Cup that season too).
In the 1980 Olympics, he centered Krutov (LW) and Lebedev (RW).
In the 1981 WHC, he played with Vladimir Golikov and Nikolai Drozdetsky. Golikov was the center, and I guess Maltsev was the RW, even though Drozdetsky was a career RW too.
In the 1982 WHC, he did not play.
In the 1983 WHC, he played together with Vyacheslav Bykov and Mikhail Vasiliev. Bykov was definitely the center, Maltsev probably the RW, Vasiliev LW.

Not sure how I missed the fact he didn't play in '79 and '82. :facepalm:

Thanks for the info about '80, '81 and '83.
 

Batis

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Sep 17, 2014
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In the 1976 World Championships, he played together with Mikhailov and Kharlamov (5 games, until he got injured), because Petrov had been left off the team (for 'disclipinary measures', I believe). I don't think he played RW in that tournament, or at least I'd think that was very much Mikhailov's position (I've never heard Mikhailov playing in any other position). In the only game from the tournament I've seen, the famous USSR vs Poland match, it looks like Kharlamov is playing at centre, or at least he is constantly handling the face-offs, so I don't know.

No need to worry about the 1979 WHC, as he was injured at the time and did not play in the tournament (missed the Challenge Cup that season too).
In the 1980 Olympics, he centered Krutov (LW) and Lebedev (RW).
In the 1981 WHC, he played with Vladimir Golikov and Nikolai Drozdetsky. Golikov was the center, and I guess Maltsev was the RW, even though Drozdetsky was a career RW too.
In the 1982 WHC, he did not play.
In the 1983 WHC, he played together with Vyacheslav Bykov and Mikhail Vasiliev. Bykov was definitely the center, Maltsev probably the RW, Vasiliev LW.

Didn't Maltsev play RW at the 1980 Olympics also?

Edit. I went back and checked some of the footage and it seems as if Maltsev played RW at the 1980 Olympics with Lebedev taking the center position and Krutov at LW. Here we have the 3 first shifts of that line from the games against Sweden and Canada.

USSR-Sweden
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJEwOFNvsT4&t=3m43s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJEwOFNvsT4&t=9m26s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJEwOFNvsT4&t=15m14s

USSR-Canada
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFVuseI7TmM&t=5m31s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFVuseI7TmM&t=10m28s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFVuseI7TmM&t=16m12s
 
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VMBM

And it didn't even bring me down
Sep 24, 2008
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Helsinki, Finland
Didn't Maltsev play RW at the 1980 Olympics also?

Edit. I went back and checked some of the footage and it seems as if Maltsev played RW at the 1980 Olympics with Lebedev taking the center position and Krutov at LW. Here we have the 3 first shifts of that line from the games against Sweden and Canada.

USSR-Sweden
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJEwOFNvsT4&t=3m43s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJEwOFNvsT4&t=9m26s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJEwOFNvsT4&t=15m14s

USSR-Canada
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFVuseI7TmM&t=5m31s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFVuseI7TmM&t=10m28s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFVuseI7TmM&t=16m12s

I guess you're right. I have a few of the games from the tournament on DVD, but I sort of took things for granted and didn't actually check. The good ol' Chidlovski also erroneously has Maltsev playing center on the line: The lineup for the USSR vs CAN game*

I checked the 1981 & 1983 WHCs, and those I seemed to have gotten right at least.

All in all, it's clear that the Soviet ntl team coaches clearly preferred Maltsev as RW. That 1980 Olympics thing really emphasizes it. Interesting thing also is that the Krutov-Lebedev-Maltsev line was only the 4th line in the tournament; just shows how powerful the team was on paper. But that potential didn't materiliaze...

* i.e. He always seems to have the players from top to bottom like this: 1st line, winger-center-winger, 2nd line, winger-center-winger etc.
 
Last edited:

jarek

Registered User
Aug 15, 2009
10,004
238
Yeah, don't expect much else from me. I'm currently in the process of moving so I don't exactly have a whole lot of energy for this at the moment.
 

King Forsberg

16 21 28 44 68 88 93
Jul 26, 2010
6,192
59
Yeah I really won't have time until Friday to do another assasination. I'm fine with waiting or voting.
 

Sprague Cleghorn

User Registered
Aug 14, 2013
3,516
504
Edmonton, KY
EHC Borussia Red Bull 04

Coach: Pat Quinn
Assistant Coach: Roger Neilson

Reg Noble - Sidney Crosby (C) - Brett Hull
Kevin Stevens - Mats Sundin (A) - Bobby Rousseau
Woody Dumart - Hooley Smith - Bobby Bauer
Wendel Clark - Kris Draper - Ace Bailey
Gaye Stewart, Harry Westwick

Borje Salming - Pierre Pilote (A)
Ching Johnson - Dan Boyle
Sandis Ozolinsh - Adam Foote
Kris Letang

Ed Belfour
Rogie Vachon

PP:
Smith-Crosby-Hull
Rousseau - Pilote

Stevens-Sundin-Bauer
Ozolinsh-Boyle

ex. Noble, Salming

PK:
Draper-Bailey
Johnson-Foote

Dumart-Smith
Salming-Pilote

ex. Rousseau, Sundin


Estimated ice time and usage


Forwards
Player | ES | PP | PK | Total
R. Noble | 15 | 2 | | 17
S. Crosby | 15 | 4 | | 19
B. Hull | 15 | 4 | | 19
K. Stevens | 11 | 3 | | 14
M. Sundin | 14 | 3 | | 17
B. Rousseau| 11 | 4 | | 15
W. Dumart | 14 | | 3 | 17
H. Smith | 14 | 2 | 3 | 19
B. Bauer | 14 | 3 | | 17
W. Clark | 6 | | | 6
K. Draper | 3 | | 4 | 8
A. Bailey | 6 | | 4 | 10
TOTAL | 138 | 25 | 14 | 177

Sundin will take shifts for Draper on the 4th line occasionally.


Defense
Player | ES | PP | PK | Total
P. Pilote | 18 | 4 | 3 | 25
B. Salming | 20 | | 3 | 23
C. Johnson | 18 | | 4 | 22
D. Boyle | 16 | 3 | | 19
A. Foote | 12 | | 4 | 16
S. Ozolinsh | 8 | 3 | | 11
TOTAL | 92 | 10 | 14 | 116

Salming and Johnson will take shifts for Ozolinsh on the 3rd pairing occasionally.



Since you specifically asked for one:

Coaching: Quinn is a weak coach here. He was the 22nd coach to be picked. Of course, Quinn being picked 22nd doesn't mean he's the 22nd best coach. However, the best case scenario for Quinn is still that of a below average coach. As for fit, Quinn liked to employ a more offensive oriented approach. The personnel you've assembled seems to be more defensive oriented, which could minimize Quinn's effectiveness. Maybe Neilson can help Quinn in that aspect, IDK.

First line: Crosby is an average or above average first line C (I have him 11th on an all-time C list as of today), Hull is an average first line RW. Noble is the weakest link on this line as he's probably somewhere in the 30-35 range for LW. Noble's ranking corresponds to that of an above average 2nd line LW. In terms of fit, it looks like a prototypical ATD FW line: you have the playmaker, sniper and glue guy. Noble's intangibles might be first line material, but his offense is very weak for a first liner, so the play could die on his stick quite a bit.

Second line: This is the weakest link of your team, and is probably the worst 2nd line in the draft in terms of talent. However, I do see that you gave your "actual" 2nd line 3rd line duties, but we'll get into that later. Sundin's talent level is that of an elite 3rd line C, and Stevens is a below average 3rd line LW. Rousseau is the only one here that is fit for 2nd line duties, as he's an average 2nd line RW. As for fit, nothing looks out of place.

Third line: Smith is an average or below average 2nd line C, so he's more than qualified for third line duties. Dumart is an above average 2nd line LW, and Bauer is a below average 2nd line RW. This could obviously be the best 3rd line in the draft since everyone on this line is a legitimate 2nd liner. However, is it worth it to have the best 3rd line at the expense of having the worst 2nd line? If you ask me, the 2nd line holds more weight, and you should put your "3rd line" as your actual 2nd line. As for chemistry, you've managed to reunite 2/3rds of the Kraut line. Smith is a downgrade from Schmidt but Smith seems to be kind of the same player as Schmidt. This line should be very good defensively due to the presence of Dumart and Smith.

Fourth line: All look like legitimate 4th liners. Bailey is the only one that looks like he'll be able to produce at the ATD level. Clark's and Draper's offense are virtually non-existent. Also, Draper and Bailey are great defensively, but Clark is terrible. Clark's presence might mean that this line will need to be sheltered.

First defense: Great first pairing. Pilote is an average #1D, and Salming is a weak #1 but you've got him in a #2's role, so he should be overqualified in his role. Again, another typical stay at home guy paired with a rusher. However, Salming's offense comes from his outlet passes. He provides what I'm guessing is average or below average offensive production for a #1D, so you've got two offensive threats on the back-end too.

Second pairing: Johnson is an average #2, and you've got him in a #3's role, so another great pick. Boyle is probably a #4 at this level, and that's where you have him in your lineup. Like your first pairing, it is very good. Once again, you've got the prototypical pairing.

Third pairing: Both are good in their roles. Ozolinsh will of course need to be sheltered.

Goalies: Belfour is an average or slightly below average starter. Vachon is an elite backup.

PP: Very good first unit. Decent second unit.

PK: Both units are great.

Overall: Very good defense, and maybe you possess a 1-4 that is top-5 in the draft. Not a fan of your current 2nd line, while your actual 2nd line masquerades as a 3rd line.
 

seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
36,130
7,215
Regina, SK
Well, I'm still working hard on bios, but I guess it's now or never, so if you wanted to do my team, do it now:

Regina_Pats+Logo.JPG


Coach: Mike Babcock

Keith Tkachuk - Doug Gilmour (A) - Guy Lafleur
Herbie Lewis - Evgeni Malkin - Helmut Balderis
Johnny Gottselig (A) - Phil Goyette - Owen Nolan
Brian Rolston - Dale Hunter - Rick Tocchet

Serge Savard (C) - Earl Seibert
Babe Pratt - Tom Johnson
Carol Vadnais - Joe Hall

Patrick Roy
Miikka Kiprusoff

Spares: Bernie Nicholls, C - Brian Bellows, LW/RW - Al Arbour, D - Mike Ridley, C

PP1: Tkachuk - Malkin - Lafleur - Pratt - Seibert
PP2: Nolan - Gilmour - Balderis - Vadnais - Hall
PK1: Gilmour - Savard - Johnson - Seibert
PK2: Rolston - Gottselig - Vadnais - Hall

Forward Minutes
Player | ES | PP | PK | Total
Doug Gilmour| 14 | 3 | 4 | 21
Guy Lafleur| 14 | 5 | 0 |19
Keith Tkachuk| 14 | 4| 0 | 18
Evgeni Malkin| 12 | 4 | 0 | 16
Johnny Gottselig| 11 | 0 | 3 | 14
Helmut Balderis |12 | 2 | 0 | 14
Owen Nolan| 11 | 3 | 0 | 14
Herbie Lewis| 12 | 0 | 0 |12
Brian Rolston | 9 | 0 | 3 | 12
Phil Goyette| 11 | 0 | 0 | 11
Dale Hunter| 9 | 0 | 0 | 9
Rick Tocchet | 9 | 0 | 0 | 9
TOTAL | 138 | 21 | 14 | 173

Defensemen Minutes
Player | ES | PP | PK | Total
Earl Seibert | 18 | 4 | 4 | 26
Serge Savard | 17 | 0 | 4 | 21
Tom Johnson | 16 | 0 | 4 | 20
Joe Hall | 14 | 3 | 3 | 20
Babe Pratt | 15 | 4 | 0 | 19
Carol Vadnais | 12 | 3 | 3 | 18
TOTAL | 92 | 14 | 14 | 120
 

Johnny Engine

Moderator
Jul 29, 2009
4,979
2,361
Well, I'm still working hard on bios, but I guess it's now or never, so if you wanted to do my team, do it now:

Regina_Pats+Logo.JPG


Coach: Mike Babcock

Keith Tkachuk - Doug Gilmour (A) - Guy Lafleur
Herbie Lewis - Evgeni Malkin - Helmut Balderis
Johnny Gottselig (A) - Phil Goyette - Owen Nolan
Brian Rolston - Dale Hunter - Rick Tocchet

Serge Savard (C) - Earl Seibert
Babe Pratt - Tom Johnson
Carol Vadnais - Joe Hall

Patrick Roy
Miikka Kiprusoff

Spares: Bernie Nicholls, C - Brian Bellows, LW/RW - Al Arbour, D - Mike Ridley, C

PP1: Tkachuk - Malkin - Lafleur - Pratt - Seibert
PP2: Nolan - Gilmour - Balderis - Vadnais - Hall
PK1: Gilmour - Savard - Johnson - Seibert
PK2: Rolston - Gottselig - Vadnais - Hall

Forward Minutes
Player | ES | PP | PK | Total
Doug Gilmour| 14 | 3 | 4 | 21
Guy Lafleur| 14 | 5 | 0 |19
Keith Tkachuk| 14 | 4| 0 | 18
Evgeni Malkin| 12 | 4 | 0 | 16
Johnny Gottselig| 11 | 0 | 3 | 14
Helmut Balderis |12 | 2 | 0 | 14
Owen Nolan| 11 | 3 | 0 | 14
Herbie Lewis| 12 | 0 | 0 |12
Brian Rolston | 9 | 0 | 3 | 12
Phil Goyette| 11 | 0 | 0 | 11
Dale Hunter| 9 | 0 | 0 | 9
Rick Tocchet | 9 | 0 | 0 | 9
TOTAL | 138 | 21 | 14 | 173

Defensemen Minutes
Player | ES | PP | PK | Total
Earl Seibert | 18 | 4 | 4 | 26
Serge Savard | 17 | 0 | 4 | 21
Tom Johnson | 16 | 0 | 4 | 20
Joe Hall | 14 | 3 | 3 | 20
Babe Pratt | 15 | 4 | 0 | 19
Carol Vadnais | 12 | 3 | 3 | 18
TOTAL | 92 | 14 | 14 | 120

Coaching and Leadership: Babcock has to be average to above average at this point. He's got some flexibility when it comes to his game, and this team is appropriately balanced style-wise. He seems to have the tendency to spread his skill around the lineup and finish each line off with a pure spear carrier, and this team isn't really set up to do that - there's a big dropoff in offensive skill between the first and third lines, and both Tkachuk (slow, lax defensively) and Lewis (small) have their flaws in the grinder role, but Babs is nothing if not adaptable. Leadership is above par - there's no Mount Rushmore candidates here, but you've got your collection of good guys who were winners.

Top Six Forwards: Lafleur can carry an offensive line himself, and the Malkin/Balderis duo should be very dangerous. Gilmour and Tkachuk are average as the second and third best players on the first line respectively, and provide exactly what Lafleur needs to thrive. Lewis covers well defensively for his linemates, and should add a decent amount of secondary scoring as well. You'll want your defensemen to get involved, physically, when these guys are on the ice, however. Malkin is notorious for taking cheap retaliation penalties, and his diminuitive linemates provide limited help with his battles (Lewis should engage opponents with enthusiasm, but he's not scaring anyone).

Bottom Six Forwards: The third line should be an effective all-purpose line. All three guys can score, and Nolan provides the appropriate amount of snarl. Of the three, Goyette is the shutdown ace - however, he'll likely take a backseat to Gilmour in crucial situations. For a group that lacks the usual top-shelf role players - your Craig Ramsay/Jack Walker types - it should be difficult to play against, and should win you a lot of shifts. The fourth line - I dunno, 9 minutes seems like a bit much for a group that lacks the one truly higher-order player as the line's primary puck carrier. From here, it looks like a specialist and two meatheads (albeit ATD-level meatheads, let's be real). They could help your team, but I wouldn't lean on them too hard.

Defense: You put a lot of resources into you defense, perhaps at the expense of your bottom six, and it shows. By my own valuations, you've got an average #1, a high-end #2, a good #3, an average #4 and two #5s. They should bring a balanced game, but to a man, they're scary physical. Hall and Vadnais as a bottom pairing seems a bit excessively toolsy, but that's a minor complaint. One of the best D-groups in the league.

Goaltending: Patrick Roy. Kiprusoff should look great in a baseball cap and open doors promptly.

Special Teams: Apologies if I missed this earlier, but who of Johnson, Savard and Seibert is covering a point on the first PK unit? And how does this mesh with Babcock's tendencies? The personnel is strong on both top units, and the power play in particular has a diverse array of ammunition that can score in different ways. Outside of Balderis, the 2nd PP is kind of meh, but no more so than any other ATD team here. The second PK, I like less than any of the other units, but there's still no one who doesn't deserve a job.

In conclusion, while this might seem like a fairly critical review, that's mainly because no part of the team feels like it was ignored - that means a lot of the parts are pretty average, but there's nobody lagging way behind his linemates. Add that to a pair of legitimate game breakers - Roy and Lafleur, and you've got a team with a shot to win it all.
 

seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
36,130
7,215
Regina, SK
Coaching and Leadership: Babcock has to be average to above average at this point. He's got some flexibility when it comes to his game, and this team is appropriately balanced style-wise. He seems to have the tendency to spread his skill around the lineup and finish each line off with a pure spear carrier, and this team isn't really set up to do that - there's a big dropoff in offensive skill between the first and third lines, and both Tkachuk (slow, lax defensively) and Lewis (small) have their flaws in the grinder role, but Babs is nothing if not adaptable. Leadership is above par - there's no Mount Rushmore candidates here, but you've got your collection of good guys who were winners.

Yeah, I think Babcock is 9th-13th among coaches right now, 2nd among active guys.

Tkachuk is not slow. Maybe he lost a step late in his career, but I just finished a bio and he is always called a very good skater (or better). He was a power forward, but he had plenty of finesse.

I agree about the leadership. I think most teams will end up choosing a better captain than I have, but I have three guys not wearing letters (Hunter, Nolan, Seibert) who could easily be assistants on most teams. It's really spread out.

Top Six Forwards: Lafleur can carry an offensive line himself, and the Malkin/Balderis duo should be very dangerous. Gilmour and Tkachuk are average as the second and third best players on the first line respectively, and provide exactly what Lafleur needs to thrive. Lewis covers well defensively for his linemates, and should add a decent amount of secondary scoring as well. You'll want your defensemen to get involved, physically, when these guys are on the ice, however. Malkin is notorious for taking cheap retaliation penalties, and his diminuitive linemates provide limited help with his battles (Lewis should engage opponents with enthusiasm, but he's not scaring anyone).

It's true, this line is not the greatest in the physical department. I expect it to be a possession line with speed. Lewis is a great safety valve, and energetic but not much of a physical presence. The good news is, no matter which defense pairing is on the ice, there will be two physical defensemen there with them ready to get involved.

When I traded for Lewis, my best choices remaining were Propp and Roberts. I don't think Roberts can cut it as a safety valve defensively, and Propp turned out to be a lot less physical than I thought when I read up on him - more of a "Recchi plus" in the intensity department than a "skilled Verbeek". Refusing to compromise on offensive ability, I pulled the trigger on Lewis but I knew by doing so that I was likely leaving the line slightly vulnerable to physicality concerns.

Bottom Six Forwards: The third line should be an effective all-purpose line. All three guys can score, and Nolan provides the appropriate amount of snarl. Of the three, Goyette is the shutdown ace - however, he'll likely take a backseat to Gilmour in crucial situations. For a group that lacks the usual top-shelf role players - your Craig Ramsay/Jack Walker types - it should be difficult to play against, and should win you a lot of shifts. The fourth line - I dunno, 9 minutes seems like a bit much for a group that lacks the one truly higher-order player as the line's primary puck carrier. From here, it looks like a specialist and two meatheads (albeit ATD-level meatheads, let's be real). They could help your team, but I wouldn't lean on them too hard.

I'll reserve definitive comment on Goyette for until I'm done his bio, but what I've found is extremely promising. I pretty much had to find very convincing evidence about his defense even to justify taking him where i did, and for what role - never mind hopefully showing he deserves to go even higher.

9 minutes is a lot? Meh, I think that's just right. Tocchet and Hunter are more than just meatheads - they are very strong ES scorers, especially for a 4th line. This is particularly why I coveted them. Yes, they're both a 10/10 in intangibles but I wanted guys who could play.

Defense: You put a lot of resources into you defense, perhaps at the expense of your bottom six, and it shows. By my own valuations, you've got an average #1, a high-end #2, a good #3, an average #4 and two #5s. They should bring a balanced game, but to a man, they're scary physical. Hall and Vadnais as a bottom pairing seems a bit excessively toolsy, but that's a minor complaint. One of the best D-groups in the league.

what do you mean excessively toolsy?

I agree on Seibert and Savard. I'd personally call Johnson a high end #3, Pratt a high end #4, and Hall? Honestly I don't see what makes him any less of a player than Pratt too. Vadnais is a #5, agree.

Special Teams: Apologies if I missed this earlier, but who of Johnson, Savard and Seibert is covering a point on the first PK unit? And how does this mesh with Babcock's tendencies? The personnel is strong on both top units, and the power play in particular has a diverse array of ammunition that can score in different ways. Outside of Balderis, the 2nd PP is kind of meh, but no more so than any other ATD team here. The second PK, I like less than any of the other units, but there's still no one who doesn't deserve a job.

Savard is the other forward along with Gilmour. It's a role he played throughout his entire career, earning arguably the best career PK stats of any post-expansion defenseman. Side note on Johnson, everything I read putting together his bio indicates he was the anchor of the 50s Habs penalty kill, and well, I don't have to tell you how good that team was.

Gilmour was an outstanding PP player. I think if the 2nd PP unit was compared to others it would look pretty favourable. In particular, Vadnais and Hall as the pointmen are extremely strong.

In conclusion, while this might seem like a fairly critical review, that's mainly because no part of the team feels like it was ignored - that means a lot of the parts are pretty average, but there's nobody lagging way behind his linemates. Add that to a pair of legitimate game breakers - Roy and Lafleur, and you've got a team with a shot to win it all.

Thanks. I try to be balanced. The point is to have no major weakness, nothing explotable. In the past I was burned doing that by lacking real game breakers. With Lafleur on one line, and the 2nd line helped by the overqualified Balderis with and embarrassment of riches Malkin, I hope I have avoided that pitfall this time. The hope is that when one votes, they think, "ok, pretty good, no weaknesses, strong offensively and defensively, and..... oh. Patrick Roy? ..........Damn."
 

Johnny Engine

Moderator
Jul 29, 2009
4,979
2,361
Hartford Whalers

Hartford_Whalers_1992-2997.gif


Coach: Pete Green

Johnny Bucyk - Phil Esposito - Wayne Cashman (A)
John Tonelli - Vaclav Nedomansky - Vladimir Martinec
Mats Naslund - Milan Novy - Larry Aurie
Igor Liba (A) - Don Luce - Jean Pronovost
Ryan Smyth, John Tavares, Patrick Sharp

Jan Suchy - Valeri Vasiliev (C)
Ken Reardon - Eric Desjardins
Leo Reise Jr. - Brent Burns
Robert Svehla

Dominik Hasek
Percy LeSueur

PP1: Bucyk - Esposito - Cashman - Suchy - Burns
PP2: Nedomansky - Novy - Martinec - Reardon - Desjardins

PK1: Luce - Aurie - Reise - Vasiliev
PK2: Liba - Pronovost - Reardon - Desjardins




"Self-assassination" aka Seppuku: My team has the best logo in ATD.


Coaching and Leadership: Green is below average for the league as a whole, but it's not hard to see what he does for this team - if he can get his team to "to endeavor to incapacitate their opponents rather than to excel them in skill and speed ... slashing, tripping, the severest kind of cross-checking", that's going to do a lot to free up this team's offense, which largely runs through a handful of slower-moving goal-scoring centres. Vasiliev is a leader in the mold of Savard - not a long record as a captain, but a big part of some teams that won many, many times. Cashman is an OK choice for an A, and I don't know much about Liba. As the ATD goes, that's a below average group, but there will be other big voices in the dressing room (Espo, Bucyk), and nobody who's overly problematic, so I don't think it'll affect the team a great deal.

Top 9 Forwards: You've done a good job surrounding your battleship-like centres with wingers who can grind in the corners and make plays. On the top end, Espo is a star and both Bucyk and Martinec are legitimate first line talent. Nedomansky and Novy are good secondary threats, and after that, it gets muddy with a few muckers playing in roles higher up than you'd imagine. However, the talent is there.

Depth Forwards: In a bigger ATD, your fourth line would be a useful third line, and you needed a group like this to make your team work. It's easy to see where Tavares and Sharp would fit into your lineup in the event of an injury - less so Smyth, but I imagine he'd find himself in a PP specialist role when he plays.

Defense: Interesting pairing of two somewhat one-dimensional European defensemen who complement each other well. Vasiliev is a low-end #1, and I don't know that you really went hard after any particularly overqualified players on your lower pairings to mitigate that. That said, every defenseman here should be a solid contributor, and they fit together very well.

Goaltending: Dominik Hasek. Percy Leseur should be fine as a backup, and might play a little more than guys backing up Roy, Plante, Hall, Sawchuk, Brodeur.

Special Teams: Cashman over Martinec on the first unit is a little odd, but it does mean you've got strong forwards on both units. The pairing of Suchy/Burns is your secret weapon. Every piece on your PK strikes me as "usable, not exceptional".

Logo: Spectacular. A strong concept that works equally well in plain blue and green, as it does with silver in the mix and strokes to add depth.

This team has a few holes, but the chemistry is on point, and most of the questions you could ask about the team have good answers. Hasek can bail out a somewhat underpowered defense, and the forwards should work as a unit to score goals.
 

Johnny Engine

Moderator
Jul 29, 2009
4,979
2,361
what do you mean excessively toolsy?
Maybe I'm wrongly conflating play style with mental attributes, but I see both players as guys with a lot of offensive pop, with more written about their meanness than their defense. Hall could be a steadying influence, but if he's particularly good at the boring defensive stuff, then he needs to go far higher than he usually does. I'm sure you've got that argument ready when the bio drops.
 

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