ATD 2012 - Draft Thread VII

[Leaf Lander]

I think he is playing terrific in his 19th nhl season where he is leading his team in scoring

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I'll take Rejean Houle, RW.

Good pick. I strongly considering him but decided to go for more offense on my lower lines

While researching him, I found a few things of interest.

1) "Zamboni Mania" drafted him in either ATD 2010 or ATD 12 and said "VanIslander made the case best," quoting "VanIslander" posts from the previous MLD.

2. In a thread about unflattering nicknames on the History Board, someone posted that the reason Rejean Houle was nicknamed "peanuts" was the small size of his penis. I did not try to confirm this

3. He seems much more highly regarded among the older posters on the History board than in the ATD, where he's never really gone this high (last ATD he technically did but it was a makeup pick).

4. Newspaper Articles from 1971 confirm how good he was against Bobby Hull in the playoffs

 

[BenchBrawl]

Good pick. I strongly considering him but decided to go for more offense on my lower lines

While researching him, I found a few things of interest.

1) "Zamboni Mania" drafted him in either ATD 2010 or ATD 12 and said "VanIslander made the case best," quoting "VanIslander" posts from the previous MLD.

2. In a thread about unflattering nicknames on the History Board, someone posted that the reason Rejean Houle was nicknamed "peanuts" was the small size of his penis. Can anyone confirm this?

1. this just never gets old , I'm sure we will still find some stuff like that 5 years from now , VanI giving himself credit or complimenting himself via his fake account

2.I always thought it was because he was an idiot and talked like an idiot , but that's not actually an info I received , I just took for granted it was that.

 

[Hedberg]

The Winnipeg Saints select RW Billy Boucher

 

[EagleBelfour]

1. this just never gets old , I'm sure we will still find some stuff like that 5 years from now , VanI giving himself credit or complimenting himself via his fake account

2.I always thought it was because he was an idiot and talked like an idiot , but that's not actually an info I received , I just took for granted it was that.

1. That's why I may be harder than most on VanIslander conduct in this sub-board and flat out refuse to participate in this year All-Time Draft if he had been included. His unacceptable behavior was more than only created a few account to manage more team in the ATD.

2. I also taught it was because he never looked very intelligent in interviews, especially in English. However, it is true that someone with a small penis can be nickname 'peanut' (or pinotte) in French. I'm unsure if the expression translate in English

3 & 4. It would be nice to read a biography on Houle. He's someone who hard to gauge. He's probably an adequate, unspectacular bottom-six forward.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Forget a full profile. I just want to know the real reason he's called peanuts

 

[EagleBelfour]

Forget a full profile. I just want to know the real reason he's called peanuts

One thing I can confirm is that:

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

One thing I can confirm is that:

LOL! That's awesome!

 

[EagleBelfour]

Billy Burch

Stanley Cup Finalist (1925)
Hart Trophy (1925)
Lady Bing (1927)
Team Captain (1925-1932)
Hockey Hall of Fame (1974)

NHL Scoring:
Top-10 Scoring (3rd*, 8th, 8th**, 8th**)
Top-10 Goalscoring (2nd*, 4th, 6th**, 6th**)
Top-10 Assist (3rd*, 8th)
*1923-24 season: NHL, PCHA and WCHL in existence
**1924-25 & 1925-26 season: NHL and WCHL/WHL in existence

[...]

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=45479171&postcount=158

-------

My take on Billy Burch:

- Although remember as one of the All-Time New York Americans best, Burch two-best seasons came as a member of the Hamilton Tigers
- He played on mostly terrible teams for all his career. The he had some help with the Hamilton Tigers, playing alongside the Green brothers, but overall he never had the chance to play alongside great teammates

Offensively:
- He was recognized as having a strong and accurate shot. His goalscoring exploit speak for itself. A good goalscorer, but nothing earth shattering
- His playmaking confuse me. Looking at statistics only, you would tend to believe he was a goalscorer first. However, all the materials I've read on him considered Burch a far better playmaker than goalscorer, from newspapers to hockey books. They are overwhelming compared to his goalscorer quotes. I have difficulty coming up with an intelligent reason on that one. Any help?
- His other great threat, aside from playmaking, was his stickhandling abilities, which was exceptional
---
Speed: Trail of the stanley cup rated Billy Burch as 'not very fast', while Joe Pelletier called him a 'slick skater', one article at the time of his dead a 'fast centre' and an article telling that the team, including the name of Burch, were using speed and stickhandling to beat teams. Was Burch a fast skater? No, I don't believe so. So, was he slow? I also don't believe that. Reading all this remind of a selection I've made last year: Vladimir Vikulov. Just like Vikulov, I believe Burch was a below average skater, but very smooth and combine with his great stickhandling, made him a difficult player to stop. Actually, the more I look at it, the more I believe Vikulov and Burch played the same brand of hockey. In their respective prime, they might have been just as good, although Vikulov did it for far longer. Anything outside his four best season (1923-24 to 1926-27) is very unspectacular.

Defensive play: I like the quote of Tommy Gorman in 1929: ''Just as long as the rules allow the Rangers to throw four men around their goal and allow Frank Boucher, center player, to loaf around mid-ce, waiting for the pass-out, we will keep Billy Burch, our own centre man, back there to cover him.''. Also, Ultimate Hockey wrote that Burch had a 'defensive conscience'. That's what I believe of Burch: an adept defensive player when needed to. I couldn't called him a two-way player with a straight face, but I believe he's not someone that would hurt you in the defensive zone and if asked to play a defensive kind of game, would be adept in doing so.

Toughness: I'm very incline to believe that Burch was the kind of player that wouldn't shied away from any contact. He could drive to the net, screen the goaltender and win battle along the board. 'Avoiding the rough stuff' as it's written in the book Trail of the Stanley Cup, doesn't make him he's a non-physical player. I believe he played the game under the rules and wouldn't allow himself to cheat to make a play. Don't get fool by his lady byng track record: Winners of the Lady Byng Trophy usually have low penalty minute totals combined with a high scoring count. Only twice has the award gone to a player with 40 PIM - Frank Nighbor of the Ottawa Senators in 1925-26 and Billy Burch of the New York Americans in 1926-27, the second and third years the award was presented. In seasons of only 36 and 44 games, those were fairly high penalty-minute totals, an indication that the standards of gentlemanly conduct have changed over the years.. I believe there's enough reference on his 'physical' game to confirm my assessment.

Hard working: He's reference more than once as a hard working hockey player.

Leadership: I think he was a great influence when he was the captain of the Hamilton Tigers. However, when the team moved in New York, I believe he got overwhelmed by what the city had to offer him. He was sometime playing overweight, and was partying more than he should have. I think Burch was a good teammate to have around your organization, but don't let yourself fool by his 7 seasons as team captain: I don't think he should wear a letter at this level.

Versatility: Although primary a centre, Burch is reference more than once as a left winger. He definitely played part of the 1928 season with New York and part of the 1933 season with Boston as a left wing. He also played defence in his last two season in the league, part time in Boston and in Chicago. At the end, I believe you want Burch to play centre on your team. His best offensive season in Hamilton are confirmed to have been played as a centre, and he played unspectacular seasons as a LW and D (although those were outside his prime years). Markranders played Billy Burch on an offensive line for the last two drafts, and VanI also used him as a LW three drafts ago. I believe those two GM got away with something they shouldn't have.

---

- I'm a bit disappointed in the number of solid newspaper quotes I've found on Billy Burch. Anyone who looked for newspapers clip on the Internet know that every skaters who played for a New York team will get a lot of results ... a throng of them you need to pay to view. But it was not the quote when he wore the New York Americans jersey I was looking for, but the one when he played for the Hamilton Tigers. I've found a few of them, but unfortunately not enough to my liking. Overall, I've found a tons of 'one-liner' kind of quotes, but only a handful of good, informative quotes on Burch. I've put them all in my biography, although I stayed clear from any 'in-game' quotes, which are worth nothing to me.



So there you go. Thoughts & questions are welcome!


PS: If you have anything more on Billy Burch, send it my way please! I would REALLY appreciate!

 

[Sturminator]

Vecens selects Lynn Patrick.

I should apologize for not posting this earlier. vecens left a list with Eagle, who transferred it on to me, but unfortunately I'm in Cali on vacation right now, and slept through vecens' clock. IMO, he should not get a clock deduction for this, as he did leave a list.

 

[Velociraptor]

Sorry for the delay.

With our late pick, Dawson City is pleased to welcome Adam Deadmarsh, RW.

Also, this really irritates me, I had Deadmarsh pegged at 631. I wouldn't trade that pick from the very beginning because I had been holding out for Deadmarsh. I've been trying to get him since my inaugural draft, one of my all-time favorite players, nice pick Modo.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Vecens left a list with someone who said he could take it. He won't get a clock deduction

 

[MadArcand]

Whalers select Ryan Smyth, LW

 

[BillyShoe1721]

RW Kenny Wharram

5x Top 6 All Star Voting (1, 1, 4, 4, 6)
1x Stanley Cup Champion
2x NHL All Star Game Participant
6x Top 17 Goals (2, 3, 11, 14, 15, 17)
5x Top 19 Assists (9, 9, 14, 18, 19)
4x Top 17 Points (4, 6, 9, 17)
3x Top 4 ESG (2, 3, 4)
4x Top 10 PPG (1, 3, 8, 10)
1964 Lady Byng Trophy Winner

At 5'9" and 160Lbs he wasn't exactly the ideal NHL player, but the North Bay, Ontario native had great speed which was his greatest asset. He was also a tenacious worker who could put in some finesse into the game when needed. Ken also was one of the most accurate shooters in the NHL. He constantly finished among the top ten in shooting accuracy, leading the entire league in 1963-64, scoring on over 20 % of his shots.

Chicago's coach Rudy Pilous put Wharram on a line with fellow rookie Stan Mikita during the 19 58-59 season. Eventually the line would be rounded out by Ab McDonald, and later Doug Mohns, and be dubbed "The Scooter Line" due to their terrific speed.

"The Scooter Line was one of the most famous scoring combinations of the 1960s," wrote author Paul Greenland in his book "Hockey Chicago Style." "What made it click so well was the combination of Mikita's superior playmaking and athletic abilities, Wharram's speed and agility, and Mohns' size, checking ability and heavy slap shot.

Wharram and Mikita shared a special bond. Ken and Stan were in fact almost as inseparable off the ice as they were on the ice. They were very good friends.

Greenland also quotes Wharram's former teammate Ed Litzenberger. "Kenny could skate a 100 miles an hour, but he really didn't come into his own until he hooked up with Stan and Ab McDonald. Stan had the ability to slow the game down. Kenny would come from behind and would give him the puck, and he would put the puck in the net. Ab would grind it out of corners and it was a marriage of talent is what it was. Kenny was a quiet guy. A good guy."

The "Scooter Line" was feared all around the league during the late 1960's. Although Bobby Hull was the most feared individual on those Hawks teams, it was often the "Scooters" that decided the outcome of the games and were the nightmare of the oppositions coaches.

During the 1960-61 season Ken scored 3 goals and 5 assists during the playoffs and helped Chicago win a Stanley Cup. From there on Kenny enjoyed a lot of success on the "Scooter Line". He had four 20+ goal seasons and three 30+ goal seasons. His 39 goals and 71 points in 1963-64 earned him a 1st team All-Star spot, a feat that he duplicated during the 1966-67 season. He also won the Lady Byng trophy in 1963-64 as the league's most sportsmanlike player.

Ken had racked up three straight 60+ point seasons and looked better than ever during the 1969 training camp when he suffered myocarditis, a virus that attacks the muscles of the heart with symptoms similar to a coronary, and was forced to retire. It was a tragic end to a career that was hard fought and that had a lot more to give.

"Whip" as he was known to his teammates could look back at a very solid NHL career. Where he scored 533 points including 252 goals in 766 NHL games.

http://blackhawkslegends.blogspot.com/2007/03/kenny-wharram.html

Forward Ken Wharram provided speed, consistency and an exemplary work ethic during an NHL career spent entirely with the Chicago Black Hawks, where he was best known as the fleetest member of the potent Scooter Line with Stan Mikita and Ab McDonald.

Wharram soon proved to be the perfect complement to the Hawks' gifted young center Stan Mikita. He was lightning-quick and masters of timing his move at the opposition blueline so that he seldom caused an offside. Once a Mikita pass found him, his puck control was among the best in the business

Since Wharram weighed only 160 pounds, his speed, agility and on ice smarts proved to be his ticket to survival in the rough and tumble NHL.

http://www.legendsofhockey.net/LegendsOfHockey/jsp/SearchPlayer.jsp?player=14665

Mikita and Wharram meshed well together and Wharram's production - attributable to his considerable speed and puck-handling skills - soared. He would have seven straight seasons scoring 20 or more goals.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenny_Wharram

Just skate—it helps if you can skate as fast as Mikita, Wharram and Mohns—and pass to predetermined spots and then score.

Wharram is not as smooth a stick-handler, but he is very fast and has a hard, accurate shot.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1079646/4/index.htm

young Kenny Wharram, who ranks 31st in the point parade, is shown to be one of the most valuable forwards on the ice. A breakdown of NHL statistics for the first 25 games gives Wharram credit for the most "net goals" in the league—15. This means that during the time Wharram was on the ice Chicago scored 15 more goals than its opponents and thus, in an unspectacular way, won hockey games.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1074420/index.htm

Except for Kenny Wharram and Doug Mohns up front, there was little else to cheer.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1081682/3/index.htm

Left Wing Mohns has been badly hurt and has played little, and Wharram alone is very good but not a one-man line.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1080544/2/index.htm

He likes swift Right Wing Ken Wharram to use the ice behind him to get up speed to burst past the defense,

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1073742/2/index.htm

Wharram is a fast right winger with excellent hands. If an opponent was distracted for even a second, Mikita, a right-handed shot, would hit Kenny on the tape in full stride, and he'd be on top of the goalie in a blink.

http://books.google.com/books?id=2c...efox-a&cd=5#v=onepage&q=kenny wharram&f=false

 

[Velociraptor]

One thing I can confirm is that:

I considered Houle, then I thought it might get really awkward in the dressing room with Conacher.

Great pick. I don't know what Lynn Patrick did to piss all of you off, but he was a 3x Top 3 all star at LW, and I have to imagine that is the best 3 year peak remaining of all LW. Add in the fact that he brings good size, and he should be a great fit for an offensively oriented 4th line. With the recent work done by BM67, Patrick's draft position should have risen, not fallen. He was second on my list for my pick, behind this guy:

Another guy that is being criminally underrated is my selection, RW Kenny Wharram

He is another player who should have had his draft position improve since BM67's discoveries, but instead, it dropped. I dare you to find me a player at any position that was 5 times top 6 at his position(1, 1, 4, 4, 6), all with relevant finishes with a decent number of votes. I'm fairly confident that such a player does not exist. I didn't plan on going balls to the wall offense with my forwards, but you guys let so many good players drop that I couldn't help myself. He'll play RW on my 4th line alongside Trevor Linden, who will now be a center.

Nice pick Billy, it's about time Wharram went.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Lynn Patrick didn't piss me off. As far as I know, he's an offense-only player with a relatively short prime in a crappy era. Is there something about his non-offensive ability I'm missing? He's a good bargain as an offensive player here though

By reducing the number of teams, a number of legit scoring line players have fallen.

 

[Dreakmur]

Since the only criticism of Barry Trotz seemd to be "he hasn't won", I suppose, I'll take an assistant coach who did nothing but win.

He won Cups as a player. He won Cups as an assistant coach. He won a Cup as a head coach too. This guy just knows how to win, so Barry Trotz will really benefit from having this man around.

Larry Robinson

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Heh, I don't see what Larry Robinson's Cups as a player have to do with Trotz's ability to manage a bench in the playoffs.

I love Robinson, but I see his role as kind of specialized. If you have a head coach who sometimes has trouble connecting with the players or who tends to obsess with defensive hockey too much, Larry is a great counter balance as a player's coach. He's also great at getting the most out of high risk / high reward defensemen.

I see him helping Trotz with your defensemen. I assume you're also having him change the defensemen in-game which should take some of the pressure off the inexperienced Trotz in the playoffs. Still, there's a limit to how much an assistant coach can help manage the bench in-game.

 

[BillyShoe1721]

Lynn Patrick didn't piss me off. As far as I know, he's an offense-only player with a relatively short prime in a crappy era. Is there something about his non-offensive ability I'm missing? He's a good bargain as an offensive player here though

By reducing the number of teams, a number of legit scoring line players have fallen.

It looks like a decent era for LWs if you ask me. Here is a list of guys he was up against for those 3 top 3 finishes in all star voting among LW:

(37-38): Paul Thompson, Busher Jackson, Sweeney Schriner, Toe Blake, Johnny Gottselig, Herbie Lewis, and Woody Dumart, all of whom I believe are top 6 LWs in this draft.

(41-42): Toe Blake, Sweeney Schriner, Roy Conacher, and Syd Howe, definitely a weaker group but not bad.

(42-43): Toe Blake, Sid Abel, Sweeney Schriner, Doug Bentley, Busher Jackson

Patrick then went off to fight in the war when it looked like he was finally coming into his own as a player.

 

[vecens24]

Yeah Lynn Patrick is offense only. He's another great skater, but he doesn't have any sort of physical ability (in fact according to EB and the Trail he actually avoided it, I'll post the quote in my bio). But I do think he definitely has the highest offensive peak remaining. He scored the most goals in a season once, and I think his scoring finishes if I remember correctly are 2,2,4, and one of those second-place finishes is NOT a season where he finished top 3 in All-Star voting (Cowley obliterated everyone that year in scoring, and like 4 people tied for second including Patrick). I'm shocked he fell 200 spots. I took him a little too early last time, but then again though with a 40 team draft scoring players like him are at a higher premium. He'll play LW on what I guess will be an offensive oriented 4th line, which I have no issue creating because I have two top lines that are great defensively.

 

[Hobnobs]

Heh, I don't see what Larry Robinson's Cups as a player have to do with Trotz's ability to manage a bench in the playoffs.

I love Robinson, but I see his role as kind of specialized. If you have a head coach who sometimes has trouble connecting with the players or who tends to obsess with defensive hockey too much, Larry is a great counter balance as a player's coach. He's also great at getting the most out of high risk / high reward defensemen.

I see him helping Trotz with your defensemen. I assume you're also having him change the defensemen in-game which should take some of the pressure off the inexperienced Trotz in the playoffs. Still, there's a limit to how much an assistant coach can help manage the bench in-game.

Maybe we took Trotz so we could have a pretty face face on the bench?

 

[Dreakmur]

The only thing anyone could say against Trotz was that he hasn't been deep in the play-offs. Nobody could even claim it was his fault. We just got the "it's an unknow". Now he has a guy who's a proven winner working with him, and that has to eliminate the unknown element.

As a coach, I have always understood my strengths and weaknesses, and brought in assistant coaches who can fill in the gaps. I am not a motivator, so I always bring in a guy who can give those inspiratiional speeches and do the "RAH RAH RAH" stuff on the bench. I'm also not great in terms of Xs and Os, so I bring in somebody who can be creative in finding ways to beat certain teams. Lastly, despite the fact that I coach defense, I'm not real great at teaching defensive zone coverage, so I usually need somebody to help there. This year, I managed to get a former OHL defenseman - he can obviously help with th D-zone stuff, but he's a great motivator too. I also got a former AAA head coach to help with the Xs and Os.

(I know you read that and ask, "are you good at anything?" )

Anyway, long story short.....

Trotz weakness = can't win
Robinson strength = can win

Weakness eliminated!!

Heh, I don't see what Larry Robinson's Cups as a player have to do with Trotz's ability to manage a bench in the playoffs.

We're getting everything Larry Robinson brings as a coach, and his experiece as a player is part of that.

I love Robinson, but I see his role as kind of specialized. If you have a head coach who sometimes has trouble connecting with the players or who tends to obsess with defensive hockey too much, Larry is a great counter balance as a player's coach. He's also great at getting the most out of high risk / high reward defensemen.

I didn't need the counter-balance for a tough coach, but that's not the only thing Robinson brings.

Larry brings a proven ability to win. He won championships in many different roles. That is, apparently, the weakness of my head coach, so having an assistant who fills in the gap is exactly what was needed.

Also, Nashville has not really had great PP numbers. While I do think it has a lot to do with players, it's still kind of a question mark. Robinson can help there too.

I see him helping Trotz with your defensemen. I assume you're also having him change the defensemen in-game which should take some of the pressure off the inexperienced Trotz in the playoffs. Still, there's a limit to how much an assistant coach can help manage the bench in-game.

He will be running the defense.

Coaches talk to eachother pretty much every day. Even though Barry Trotz is still the head coach, and he will run the ship, he will still take a lot from his assistant coach. Larry Robinson will have a strong influence on this team.

 

[BenchBrawl]

I'm unconvinced , I think Tortz is still out of place in this league , no matter who his assistant is.But oh well , if people are convinced after that more power to you.

 

[EagleBelfour]

It's rare I'm saying this, but I'm hoping the 12 GM's in front of me take a throng of players on my list. I have so many players I want at so many position, that I'm hoping some people will make my selection a bit easier.

 

[Dreakmur]

I'm unconvinced , I think Tortz is still out of place in this league , no matter who his assistant is.But oh well , if people are convinced after that more power to you.

You are cup-counting. That's not how to evaluate players or coaches.

His Jack Adams record suggests that he's the best coach in the league over his career.