ATD 2012 - Draft Thread VII

[Sturminator]

I like both Macoun and Svehla but in no way can you convince me that Macouns better defense outweights Svehlas better 2-way play.

Edit: Im not saying Svehla is better than Macoun

In many cases, bottom unit players are more important for their best skill than for their total package. Macoun's best single skill, penalty killing, is better than any one thing Svehla did, so he may be more valuable to an ATD team although Svehla was probably the better all-around player. The performance of bottom-pairing guys at even-strength is less important than their potential contributions to special teams (if they are good in that area), in my opinion, because they will see little ES icetime in the playoffs.

 

[Sturminator]

And more points from playing forward.

Wasn't Patrick superior defensively as well?

Probably. Though Patrick may have looked worse in front of any other goalie.

 

[markrander87]

And more points from playing forward.

Wasn't Patrick superior defensively as well?


.

Not from what i've read, Greschner seems to have the edge defensively and with puck moving:

Patrick:

That is how Patrick picked up most of his points, because he was not an elite passer. He was never great at the perfect breakout pass from his own zone. His instinct was always to skate with the puck. Once he reached the neutral zone he would either dump the puck into the offensive zone, or just drive all the way to the net, whether the defenseman should be or not. He was unlikely to utilize the players ahead of him when rushing the puck.


Though his skating and hockey smarts always placed him in strong defensive positioning, he was often criticized for his defensive play. Despite his good size, he was never a physical presence by any stretch of the imagination. It was not in his demeanor, or in his upper body strength. Still, his skating and balance should have allowed him to be a smart take-out defenseman, but too often players would drive through his checks.

Greschner:

He quickly established himself as a NHL star blessed with size and skating. He would run the Rangers power play in the era between Brad Park and Brian Leetch.
..A hockey natural is a great way to describe him. He was a super stickhandler with a good shot. He was big and aggressive, though not necessarily strong or punishing. He was a smart skater, gifted in his balance and lateral mobility, although he lacked speed. His ice savvy was his biggest asset, able to read plays developing from either end of the ice and to be in the right spot at the right time.

http://nyrangerslegends.blogspot.com/2009/10/ron-greschner.html



By the look of it, Sturms description looks a lot more accurate.

 

[Velociraptor]

Louis Berlinguette, LW

Berlinguette's speed and defensive prowess will fit in nicely next to Sanderson on the fourth line.

Dreak & nobs notified.

 

[BenchBrawl]

What are you guys thoughts on stackhouse?

Macoun is Macoun , mainly drafted him for PK and defensive game + playoff experience.

Louis berlinguette, LW

Good pick , had him last year , only thing is he's hard to sell as how good defensively he probably truly was.

 

[Stoneberg]

Not from what i've read, Greschner seems to have the edge defensively and with puck moving:

Patrick:




Greschner:




http://nyrangerslegends.blogspot.com/2009/10/ron-greschner.html



By the look of it, Sturms description looks a lot more accurate.

You're going to need more than a cherry picked quote on each player to convince me.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=22034207&postcount=803

Lots of quotes in this seventies bio to the contrary.

Edit: I should add that I was considering Greschner when I took Patrick but I really needed a right handed guy.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Berlinguette's lack of offense is what turned me off from him. He put up okay assist numbers for a couple of years skating with Lalonde and was an offensive nobody otherwise

 

[markrander87]

You're going to need more than a cherry picked quote on each player to convince me.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=22034207&postcount=803

Lots of quotes in this seventies bio to the contrary.

Edit: I should add that I was considering Greschner when I took Patrick but I really needed a right handed guy.

I don't see any quotes regarding his passing and physical play other then a single description from one game regarding each.

He absolutely looks like a great bottom pairing guy with great speed etc..

I didn't realize Patrick was on your team, haha i'm not sure who the better player is. They both are great fits for their roles on each of our teams.

 

[Dreakmur]

Louis Berlinguette, LW

Berlinguette's speed and defensive prowess will fit in nicely next to Sanderson on the fourth line.

Dreak & nobs notified.

Isn't that a picture or Frank Foyston?

 

[Sturminator]

Isn't that a picture or Frank Foyston?

Yes.

 

[Sturminator]

By the look of it, Sturms description looks a lot more accurate.

Yeah...there's one part of that Pelletier thing I disagree with:

A hockey natural is a great way to describe him. He was a super stickhandler with a good shot. He was big and aggressive, though not necessarily strong or punishing.

I would describe Greschner, in perfectly direct terms, as a bit of a ***** for a man of his size. I could not agree that he was an "aggressive" player. Greschner was a player who actively avoided contact at times, and was booed viciously for it at times.

 

[vecens24]

Sent off to EB. If both of my guys get scooped, then skip me. No big deal just keep the draft moving.

 

[Dr Pepper]

Sorry for the delay.

With our late pick, Dawson City is pleased to welcome Adam Deadmarsh, RW.

 

[EagleBelfour]

572. vecens24 - Hamilton Mustangs
[...]
574. Billyshoe1721 - Philadelphia Flyers

I have both of these GM two-man list. Feel free to send other list my way.

 

[Sturminator]

As long as we're on the topic of 80's defensemen, their all-star records and where they belong historically, it has always bothered me that Brad McCrimmon was basically never a #1 defenseman. He was always behind somebody better - Howe or MacInnis in his prime, and even Lidstrom later on.

I think he's pretty overrated, to be honest. I have no idea how this kind of a player gets taken ahead of a guy like Frank Fredrickson, for example. I would take Fredrickson to center a 3rd line before I'd think about McCrimmon, regardless of team situation, such is the difference in talent.

 

[arrbez]

Sorry if I kept you waiting, didn't get a pm.

Inglewood selects tenacious two-way winger Ross Lonsberry

Lonsberry was an unspectacular but consistent offensive player (averaged ~20 goals and ~50 points throughout his career). But he was better known as a hardworking defensive player and digger, regularly used to check star players like Lafleur, Cournoyer, and Gilbert. And Fred Shero absolutely loved him, naming Lonsberry the Flyer's most valuable player in their 1974 championship season.

"I knew Lonsberry would be good because I've seen him play for ten years," said Shero. "But he's been unbelievable this year. He has more stamina than Bobby Clarke, and he's been the key man in a lot of games. He's done everything for us." - Fred Shero link

"It's hard to realize what Lonsberry does in a game until you have looked back over some of the films", says Shero. "I watched a film of a game in Atlanta we won 2-1, and he was the whole team" - Fred Shero (Leader Post, Mar 24 1973)

 

[EagleBelfour]

I wonder if a NHL star could get away with that kind of publicity today:

 

[BenchBrawl]

why not , lets smoke it up

 

[markrander87]

Yeah...there's one part of that Pelletier thing I disagree with:



I would describe Greschner, in perfectly direct terms, as a bit of a ***** for a man of his size. I could not agree that he was an "aggressive" player. Greschner was a player who actively avoided contact at times, and was booed viciously for it at times.

It's a good thing he is paired with Plager

 

[EagleBelfour]

568. Leaf Lander - Toronto Maple Leafs (1-man list)
[...]
572. vecens24 - Hamilton Mustangs (2-men list)
[...]
574. Billyshoe1721 - Philadelphia Flyers (2-men list)

 

[Velociraptor]

Albert "Battleship" Leduc

Here's the biography TDMM created in 2010.

 

[EagleBelfour]

Leaf Lander select a former Team Canada captain:

Ray Whitney, LW

Leaf Forever PM'ed

 

[Sturminator]

Ray Whitney, huh? Well...if anyone feels like picking at his intangibles, I won't complain about modern bias.

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

Ray Whitney, huh? Well...if anyone feels like picking at his intangibles, I won't complain about modern bias.

Before doing any research I can think of at least 3 guys who played that style from the same era I would pick over Whitney. I won't bash LL's picks though.

 

[Leafs Forever]

I'll take Rejean Houle, RW.