raleh
Registered User
Tidewater selects D Chris Chelios. I'm working on the bio, but we don't want to delay any further.
I was 150% sure this is the guy you'd pick. Better than MacInnis (IMO) and also right handed.
Tidewater selects D Chris Chelios. I'm working on the bio, but we don't want to delay any further.
The point is that after the age of 30 (and after having left his dynasty club), Messier had 1 season over 20 points - the year the Rangers one the cup. Which admittedly was a pretty damn awesome performance.
After the age of 30 when Yzerman's teams started getting up to a comparable level he had all three of his 20+ point playoffs.
Now are you going to try and tell me 30+ year old Yzerman was a better point producer than he was in his offensive prime or are you going to admit that team factors a lot into playoff performance?
The problem with comparing their playoff performances by points is that when Messier (and his team) was at his best he was in his 20s on a high-scoring dynasty and when Yzerman (and his team) was at his best he was in his 30s in the dead puck era.
I don't think much separates them as playoff performers.
Can we talk about something else now? Please?
Also, the edit by seventieslord was pretty weird to say the least.
Brad Park is such an elite well-rounded defenseman. It just seems to me like he never gets due credit. From what I can tell, he's closer to Potvin, Lidstrom, and co. then he is to the tier of second round defensemen that he gets put in.
I also don't understand why Larry Robinson is considered better than him at all.
...
Oh man, this is so hard...
i think OP would be easier to read if only names of players and not names of teams were in bold letters.
I'll get a bio later for my pick. You guys all know I love my intangibles after last draft, why change things?
Peterborough Petes select: C: Milt Schmidt
I was 150% sure this is the guy you'd pick. Better than MacInnis (IMO) and also right handed.
Yeah, like how awesome Lalonde and Park are.
Well in reality Sakic was better than Schmidt, but since this is the ATD - Schmidt may be looked at as the better pick.
i am not sure schmidt has ever been picked before sakic.Well in reality Sakic was better than Schmidt, but since this is the ATD - Schmidt may be looked at as the better pick.
i am not sure schmidt has ever been picked before sakic.
I was 150% sure this is the guy you'd pick. Better than MacInnis (IMO) and also right handed.
seventieslord said:Then I multiplied that age and era-adjusted PPG figure by GP again to arrive at an adjusted points total.
Messier: 254 points in 236 games.
Yzerman: 196 points in 196 games.
Pierre Pilote was one of the most outstanding defensemen of his time. - Joe Pelletier
Pilote was a superb defenseman at both ends of the ice. In his own zone he blocked shots fearlessly, but he also wasn't afraid to join the rush and he was a first-rate passer- Legends of Hockey
- Joe PelletierThe Hawks became Stanley Cup champions in 1961. Pilote scored the winning or tying goal in every Blackhawks victory that year
He was one of the most feared defensemen of Original Six hockey- Legends of Hockey
. -Legends of HockeyPilote also became renowned as a tough guy who should be avoided, a reputation enhanced when he knocked both __________and Maurice Richard out cold during the same mix-up
Just to really, really hammer this one home.
Let's pretend Yzerman didn't go down in round 1 and that he produced at an insane level, 40 points in 25 games, en route to winning the 1989 cup.
Let's then pretend that the Leafs don't score that game 7 OT winner at Joe Louis Arena in 1993, and Yzerman goes on to have a playoff for the ages, instead of that other guy, but instead of stopping in round 3, he takes out Gretzky too, en route to a cup over Roy, scoring 43 points in 25 games.
Well, his career total would then be 248 "adjusted" points in 233 games. He still wouldn't quite be at Messier's playoff production level, even after crediting him with two extraordinary and imaginary scenarios.
So here's what I did, it took me two hours, I hope you like it.
Sorry for the delay. Things be busy.
For the first time, I'll pick a defenseman first, a guy I think is the BDA. Recycle bio time!(one of the first ones I contributed too):
His firends call him Pete, but you will know him as:
Pierre Pilote
Biography:
Pierre Pilote, although small, was won of the most feared defencemen of the original six era. A rather complete package as far as defencemen go, Pilote could do it offensively, defensively, and physically.
Offensively, Pilote was a machine, often in Top 5 in points amongst defenceman, and a 4 year stretch where he led the league in defenceman scoring. His offensive game also translated into the playoffs, as shown by his incredible Conn Smythe run where he scored the winning or tying goal in every Blackhawks playoff victory in 1961.
Defensively, Pilote was also great, being a fearless shot-blocker and more than solid in his own end. He was also suprisingly tough, knocking out Maurice Richard in a mix-up and being known as a very tough, and feared, customer. His toughness was also shown by his iron man streak, where he played 376 games in a row over 5 seasons in Chicago without missing 1 game.
After winning the cup, Pilote was named captain on a team that had both Bobby Hull and Stan Mikita, as good a tribute as any to his leadership abilites and his importance to his team. He was an All-Star every year from 1960 to 1967, which also featured a run of three straight norrises. Pilote was traded to Toronto in 1968, where he played one season before retiring. Pilote is truly, one of the greatest defencemen to ever play the game. He was inducted to the hockey hall of fame in 1975.
Awards and Achievements:
Stanley Cup Champion (1961)
Retro Conn Smythe (1961)
3 x Norris Trophy winner (1963, 1964, 1965)
- Joe Pelletier
All-Stars and Voting:
Norris Voting - 4th(1960), 4th(1961), 2nd(1962),1st(1963), 1st(1964), 1st(1965) 2nd(1966), 2nd(1967)
All-Star Selections � 1st Team(1963, 1964, 1965, 1966, 1967), 2nd Team(1960, 1961,1962)
Scoring:
Scoring - 8th(1965)
Assists - 5th(1964), 3rd(1965), 3rd(1967)
Scoring for Defensemen - 9th(1957), 5th(1958), 3rd(1959), 2nd(1960), 2nd(1961), 3rd(1962), 5th(1963), 1st(1964), 1st(1965), 1st(1966), 1st(1967), 5th(1968)
Play-off Scoring - 1st(1961), 7th(1963)
Play-off Scoring for Defensemen - 1st(1961), 2nd(1962), 1st(1963), 1st(1964), 2nd(1965), 2nd(1967)
. -Legends of Hockey
Fun Fact:
Pierre Pilote is an incredible story of late-starts. He learned to skate as a child. but between the ages of 14 and 17, he never played at all because the local rink burned down and he had nowhere to go. As a result, Pilote didn't play his first game of organized hockey until he was 17.
Seriously guys, we're pretty loosey-goosey here on the ATD board. There really are just two rules anyone has to worry about: 1) Don't mention or hint at undrafted players in the draft thread; 2) After you make a selection, PM the GM who comes after you.
Tidewater selects D Chris Chelios.
Boy I'm stumped. You could be talking about any one of the hundreds of players with 10 letters in their names and the initials M.S. who generally go around this time in the ATD.
You got too much time on your hands man..
Yzerman looks pretty good in that comparison if you ask me.
Even if I have to call into question how accurate average on top of average on top of average is when comparing players whose career and team arcs were so different.
Messier might indeed have a bit of an advantage as a scorer and he definitely has to get credit for actually doing it (Yzerman never really got to show what he could do in his offensive prime with a good team). But by the time Yzerman was having his best playoff seasons he was also better defensively than Messier had ever been and was also every bit the gritty leader Messier had ever been in my opinion.
I still think they are fairly comparable playoff performers at their best.
Chelios seems pretty comparable in value to MacInnis to me, with most of his value in the defensive end and most of MacInnis's value in the offensive end.