At what point is it time for a rebuild?

[kingsfan28]

When Doughty says he wants over 10 million or doesn't want to stick around.

10.5 for 8 years. Done.

 

[DoktorJeep]

I’m in the retool camp, both system and roster.

This season and the series against Vegas proved that the methodical, slow style of the Kings is only good enough to squeak into the playoffs and then get embarrassed with this roster.

I think two of Muzzin, Martinez and Forbort should be moved to bring in a goal scoring winger. I don’t think it should wait for a deadline deal for Pacioretty with one year left on his contract. Or maybe you increase the offer by including a Toffoli. However it’s done, the Kings need another 40 goals next year badly. Maybe some of that comes from within, but the odds are low. Probably lower than Dallas taking Toffoli and Martinez for Radulov.

To fill out the bottom part of next years roster, I expect skilled prospects to be handed ice time in order to learn at the NHL level. The 4th line forwards and fifth and sixth defenseman should be coached to be PK specialists who don’t take penalties and can give you 10 mins a night, half of that on the PK. Guys like Clifford, Andreoff, and MacDermid can’t be in camp taking up a spot in October. Journeymen like Mitchell and Thompson need to be in Ontario mentoring those players if they stay in the org at all.

Looking at Anaheim’s sweep and the Kings, heavy hockey is done. The Kings are barely built for the regular season much less the playoffs. Having your best players killing penalties isn’t smart anymore. Starting your breakouts from deep in your zone gives the other team too much time to get in position and defend a predictable attack. The game is now played between the bluelines and no longer played deep below the dots.

I don’t know if it takes a new coaching staff to do that, but I expect Rob Blake to know how to make whatever changes are necessary to fix the philosophy where it is no longer useful.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Trade Toffoli and Muzzin for a 1st line winger.

Who?

Las Vegas just broke the mold of "3 to 5 year plans"

They haven't broken any model. Established teams can't do a clean slate Vegas model. They won't be able to do what they did again.

 

[KINGS17]

10.5 for 8 years. Done.

I would be shocked if this got it done, but hope springs eternal.

 

[KINGS17]

They haven't broken any model. Established teams can't do a clean slate Vegas model. They won't be able to do what they did again.

Established teams can't do it with 8-year contracts on the books. Vegas doesn't have to hand out those kind of contracts. The next CBA is likely to help them avoid those type of contracts as well.

 

[KopitarFAN]

Established teams can't do it with 8-year contracts on the books. Vegas doesn't have to hand out those kind of contracts. The next CBA is likely to help them avoid those type of contracts as well.

William Karlsson would beg to differ, you know he is gonna get paid this summer, and they will probably regret it as soon as next year.

 

[KINGS17]

William Karlsson would beg to differ, you know he is gonna get paid this summer, and they will probably regret it as soon as next year.

Vegas is still building. They would be foolish to give Karlsson 8 years and $50M for one career season. If they are smart it will be 5 years max for the 25 year-old Karlsson.

If another team wants to go full-stupid, Vegas should let him go. The player and his agent always want more. It's up to management to get the right deal, or find an equivalent option.

 

[SFKingshomer]

Karlsson didn't impress me at all. Marchessault and Smith carry that line...

 

[KingsFan7824]

Established teams can't do it with 8-year contracts on the books. Vegas doesn't have to hand out those kind of contracts. The next CBA is likely to help them avoid those type of contracts as well.

Vegas hasn't been around long enough to screw up yet. Although the vast majority thought they did after their draft.

They've already quintupled Marchessault's cap hit, without the unlikely quintupling of production next year. Paying far more to probably stay the same. Not smart. Should've traded him at the deadline for a steep price. Plus he'll be 28 next year, so on average his best days should be behind him.

Miller will get more, for probably the same production, and he'll already be 26. Theodore will get more. Karlsson will get a bunch more, likely without the increased production, and will also be 26 next year. Might even think about signing Neal and/or Perron, both another year older, and unlikely to produce the same numbers. A bunch of picks for Tatar and he's been a healthy scratch.

Things are already looking down for the Knights.

 

[KINGS17]

Vegas hasn't been around long enough to screw up yet. Although the vast majority thought they did after their draft.

They've already quintupled Marchessault's cap hit, without the unlikely quintupling of production next year. Paying far more to probably stay the same. Not smart. Should've traded him at the deadline for a steep price. Plus he'll be 28 next year, so on average his best days should be behind him.

Miller will get more, for probably the same production, and he'll already be 26. Theodore will get more. Karlsson will get a bunch more, likely without the increased production, and will also be 26 next year. Might even think about signing Neal and/or Perron, both another year older, and unlikely to produce the same numbers. A bunch of picks for Tatar and he's been a healthy scratch.

Things are already looking down for the Knights.

Sure they overpaid a bit for Marchessault, but at $5M cap hit for six years, he's hardly breaking the bank. Nice false premise though saying he needs to quintuple his production to be worth the money.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Sure they overpaid a bit for Marchessault, but at $5M cap hit for six years, he's hardly breaking the bank. Nice false premise though saying he needs to quintuple his production to be worth the money.

I am having some fun with hyperbole, but they are spending more to probably stand still.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

TSN thinks the time to rebuild is now.

https://www.tsn.ca/talent/time-has-come-for-the-kings-to-rebuild-1.1061737

No team has ever scored fewer goals in four games. Only a handful of teams have generated less scoring chances, and only one team – the 2011 Florida Panthers – generated less dangerous shot attempts. Across the board, it was a total failure. (You’ll note 2017 Vegas is also on this table, but you can see a clear difference – they were generating plenty of dangerous scoring chances and shot attempts. They just weren’t going in.)

HockeyViz’s Micah Blake McCurdy had a fantastic visualization of the data tabled above. The heat maps reiterate the same point – L.A. was kept to the outside way too frequently, whereas Vegas was able to position itself in and around Jonathan Quick for most of the series.

 

[KINGS17]

TSN thinks the time to rebuild is now.

https://www.tsn.ca/talent/time-has-come-for-the-kings-to-rebuild-1.1061737

No team has ever scored fewer goals in four games. Only a handful of teams have generated less scoring chances, and only one team – the 2011 Florida Panthers – generated less dangerous shot attempts. Across the board, it was a total failure. (You’ll note 2017 Vegas is also on this table, but you can see a clear difference – they were generating plenty of dangerous scoring chances and shot attempts. They just weren’t going in.)

HockeyViz’s Micah Blake McCurdy had a fantastic visualization of the data tabled above. The heat maps reiterate the same point – L.A. was kept to the outside way too frequently, whereas Vegas was able to position itself in and around Jonathan Quick for most of the series.

I'm guessing those big red splotches in the graphic on the left is where Kopitar's ass is glued to the half wall on the power play. Quick played like a Smythe trophy winner in the Vegas series. Best I have seen him play over a 4-game stretch in a while.

 

[KingsFan7824]

11 out of 14 periods Vegas was clearly better. That's 80% of the time. All the Kings got for when they actually looked like they belonged in the series was 1 goal by Iafallo.

The way 2012 unfolded was a surprise. They were struggling that year. Lombardi's plan wasn't working. Fired the coach, which probably wasn't part of the plan. Gagne got hurt, which probably wasn't part of the plan. Penner couldn't score, which probably wasn't part of the plan. Richards was ok, which probably wasn't part of the plan. They said what the hell why not with marginal prospects in King and Nolan, which probably wasn't part of the plan. A hope this saves my job trade at the deadline, which probably wasn't part of the plan.

2013, they managed to scratch and claw their way to the 3rd round. Mostly on the back of Quick. Kopitar, Doughty, and Brown didn't have great performances.

2014 started with some of the worst playoff hockey we've seen. Then something clicked, and they rode a wave of momentum that few fans anywhere of any team have ever or will ever witness.

Even the golden age was rocky.

 

[lexlavender]

I'm guessing those big red splotches in the graphic on the left is where Kopitar's ass is glued to the half wall on the power play. Quick played like a Smythe trophy winner in the Vegas series. Best I have seen him play over a 4-game stretch in a while.

Quick literally had the highest save percentage in 4 playoff losses in NHL history that series.

 

[lexlavender]

Let's remember that this season was supposed to be a retool for uptempo hockey, and it failed spectacularly.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Let's remember that this season was supposed to be a retool for uptempo hockey, and it failed spectacularly.

Seemed to work early on, but they got away from it and looked like they crawled back into a shell and stopped aggressively attacking the middle of the ice. Maybe they're just a very average hockey team at best that was propped up by one line that performed well, a solid blueline, and stellar goaltending. And once that one line stops producing, you get the pathetic results we just witnessed in the post season. The defense and goaltending did its job. The offense (including from the blueline) did not.

 

[lexlavender]

And all this stuff about high danger scoring chances is something the Kings specifically focused on THIS SEASON. You can go back to offseason interviews with Stevens and he is saying THAT IS HIS FOCUS FOR THIS SEASON. And when it mattered most, we were the worst team IN LEAGUE HISTORY at generating THE THING THAT STEVENS WANTED TO FOCUS ON THIS YEAR.

 

[DryIslandBartender]

TSN thinks the time to rebuild is now.

https://www.tsn.ca/talent/time-has-come-for-the-kings-to-rebuild-1.1061737

No team has ever scored fewer goals in four games. Only a handful of teams have generated less scoring chances, and only one team – the 2011 Florida Panthers – generated less dangerous shot attempts. Across the board, it was a total failure. (You’ll note 2017 Vegas is also on this table, but you can see a clear difference – they were generating plenty of dangerous scoring chances and shot attempts. They just weren’t going in.)

HockeyViz’s Micah Blake McCurdy had a fantastic visualization of the data tabled above. The heat maps reiterate the same point – L.A. was kept to the outside way too frequently, whereas Vegas was able to position itself in and around Jonathan Quick for most of the series.

“We’ll hire a team of offensive specialists. We’re still contenders, meanwhile buy our new season tickets package today!”

-Luc

 

[lexlavender]

Seemed to work early on, but they got away from it and looked like they crawled back into a shell and stopped aggressively attacking the middle of the ice. Maybe they're just a very average hockey team at best that was propped up by one line that performed well, a solid blueline, and stellar goaltending. And once that one line stops producing, you get the pathetic results we just witnessed in the post season. The defense and goaltending did its job. The offense (including from the blueline) did not.

I don't know how many times I've said this team is a paper tiger propped up by it's goaltending this past year.

Lets not forget that we were on a roll though when Pearson-Kempe-Toffoli was scoring. Once that dried up, we became a one line team. The statistics all showed that we were getting lucky, and alot of us stuck our head in the sand and ignored it all season.

And in true Kings fashion, it blew up in our faces at the worst time.

 

[KingsFan7824]

And all this stuff about high danger scoring chances is something the Kings specifically focused on THIS SEASON. You can go back to offseason interviews with Stevens and he is saying THAT IS HIS FOCUS FOR THIS SEASON. And when it mattered most, we were the worst team IN LEAGUE HISTORY at generating THE THING THAT STEVENS WANTED TO FOCUS ON THIS YEAR.

And it's fine to say that, but you need players to do that. If they're too slow and/or unwilling, it doesn't matter.

 

[deeshamrock]

I'm pretty sure the front office is looking at the division and conference and the level of competition that changes every year. If this team wants to develop into a contender again, they can't half-ass it, they have to identify a concrete path forward and take the necessary steps to achieve that. And it should be done the right way. If that means a significant turnover of players, getting draft picks and prospects, that will give them a solid set of roots, they need to do that.

This team has failed for 4 years now, and have an aging core. They can't continue in that vein. The farm system was weakened, and that will take a bit of time to re flourish. Hexy was able to that in PHilly, and preached being patient. The Kings don't have a surplus of top end prospects on the team.
So they have to take a hard look at this team, the competition and make the right moves.

 

[deeshamrock]

10.5 for 8 years. Done.

1. 10.5 won't get it done

2. that is not DD's sole criteria , he wants to be on a team that is in position to win 'Cups' plural. And the Kings aren't that team.

I know how good is and the difference it makes but he's also been a part of the team for the last 4 years that has failed.
He will do what's best for his future and that will be the team that provide the 11 to 12M he'll get and the skill in place currently to go on Cup runs for the next several years.

 

[tny760]

i don't see him pulling more than $11M

that's already $2M more than PK and he't not mcdavid

 

[KingsFan7824]

1. 10.5 won't get it done

2. that is not DD's sole criteria , he wants to be on a team that is in position to win 'Cups' plural. And the Kings aren't that team.

I know how good is and the difference it makes but he's also been a part of the team for the last 4 years that has failed.
He will do what's best for his future and that will be the team that provide the 11 to 12M he'll get and the skill in place currently to go on Cup runs for the next several years.

Odds are, he's not getting both. Don't care anymore if he stays or goes, but at 29 when his contract is done, he'll probably have to choose. Whatever team he goes to will be better, like Minnesota with their home town guys, but multiple guaranteed runs at the Cup are going to be tough to find when you want all that money too.

Good, fast, and cheap. You get 2 of the 3.