Seravalli: Ask for Gavrikov starts with 2021 return for Savard

[squashmaple]

Wonder if there's some move to be made around Gavrikov + Jenner for Girard + Something from the Avs. Seems like CBJ could use a guy like Girard to help their transition game and could be a good guy to throw with Peeke or Gud. However, I'm aware of how unlikely it is for CBJ to move their captain

It would take an egregious overpay. Jenner signed a team-friendly extension to stay in Columbus and be captain. Not to mention Girard doesn't really fill a need Columbus has. They've got plenty of small, offensive-oriented defensemen and he wouldn't see the PP over Werenski, Boqvist, or Jiricek next season. Not to mention the cap hit.

 

[Djp]

I'm confused for why Seravalli is acting like this is too much, I feel like Gavrikov is clearly better than both Savard and Chiarot.

He plays in a higher role than Savard and he offers some offensive ability that Chiarot doesn't offer. Like I'd much rather have Gavrikov than the other two, and it feels obvious unless I'm missing something here.

Apples and oranges……

just because a player 2 yrs ago got a 1st+ doesn’t mean a similar player gets a 1st this time.

market drives it. At deadline that year many teams at deadline we’re already in the playoffs. This year there is much more uncertainty. Teams don’t want to give up tern picks in this draft for a rental.

this year you have more teams up against the cap.

 

[Djp]

His cap is a bargain $2.8 million for a top four defender and there is zero commitment past this year. And his game is the type every contender is searching to add more of going into the playoffs.

Really disagree with just about everything you have written here. A mobile, tough as nails defender in his prime who is outstanding defensively at a cheap price? This is just about the ideal trade TDL trade chip you could conjure. Unless you have a very specific need to lift an anemic poweplay - I’m not sure how one could be think Klingberg at $7 million would be a more sought commodity or one with as bullish a market.

Gavrikov would be an absolutely beauty on a team like the Oilers or Leafs. He is going to be the Josh Manson piece for somebody this year.

With retention, Gavikov's cap hit is extremely low, well under a million for the remainder of the season. The fact he costs so little that pretty much any contender could fit him ups his asking price for Columbus because there's simply more market. Add in his size and the fact he's a solid defensive D? Columbus will get a first.

if you need to involve a 3 tardy team it’s real dollars paid, not cap hit.

near the deadline he is owed $1M in real dollars.

bringing in a 3rd team is $500K. Thst costs a 2nd for pass thru retention.

how many teams have $1.4M in cap space With retention?

 

[Viqsi]

Wonder if there's some move to be made around Gavrikov + Jenner

No. Jenner pretty much isn't available no matter what you offer.

 

[majormajor]

Apples and oranges……

just because a player 2 yrs ago got a 1st+ doesn’t mean a similar player gets a 1st this time.

market drives it. At deadline that year many teams at deadline we’re already in the playoffs. This year there is much more uncertainty. Teams don’t want to give up tern picks in this draft for a rental.

this year you have more teams up against the cap.

The player is better, has little competition in the shutdown D market segment, and is low cap - 2.8m at full which is 700k at double retention. Having more teams up against the cap should actually help the market for Gavrikov because he's the only prime rental that many of these clubs can squeeze in.

 

[Djp]

The player is better, has little competition in the shutdown D market segment, and is low cap - 2.8m at full which is 700k at double retention. Having more teams up against the cap should actually help the market for Gavrikov because he's the only prime rental that many of these clubs can squeeze in.

its not cap hit…it’s actual salary paid that matters when involving a third team.

cap hit $2.8M real money $4.2M. You are looking at $1m owed a TDL.

 

[smitty10]

No. Jenner pretty much isn't available no matter what you offer.

One of my buddies is a cousin of Jenner. No chance he'd accept a trade at this point. Says he absolutely loves Columbus and the organization.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

if you need to involve a 3 tardy team it’s real dollars paid, not cap hit.

near the deadline he is owed $1M in real dollars.

bringing in a 3rd team is $500K. Thst costs a 2nd for pass thru retention.

how many teams have $1.4M in cap space With retention?

its not cap hit…it’s actual salary paid that matters when involving a third team.

cap hit $2.8M real money $4.2M. You are looking at $1m owed a TDL.

25%, the double in double max retention, of Gavrikov's salary at the deadline is ~226k the rest of the way.

Even if it was 500k, I'm not sure how you valued that at a 2nd round pick. It's out of scale with Foligno. The Pens only got Reaves and a 4th for eating close to $1.6 mil over 2 years

 

[DingDongCharlie]

Agree with this. Looking at the rentals of defenseman Anaheim has two. Shattenkirk and Klingberg. San Jose has long term contract with huge money for Karlsson. And then you got Chychrun from Arizona.

The defenseman market is extremely bleak this deadline. I guess you can throw Gostisbehere in the conversation also.

But really not much available. The prices are going to be extremely high this deadline. And the teams who have these players are playing it smart keeping it high.

I get your point but I think there's a decent amount of D rumoured available now, McCabe, Provorov, Edmundson, Ekholm all rumoured available. Also guys nobody is really talking about pending UFAs like Mayfield and Maatta. These guys plus who you mentioned about a 12 D all top 4 or capable D. There will be other 6/7/8 D types available too.

I think the market for the top 2 guys will be high. Chychrun and Gavrikov. Both command a 1st+ Chychrun a mint more due to term + low cap hit contract. I don't think Provorov or Ekholm move until the off season. Guys in the 2nd tier like Klingberg, McCabe, Maatta, Edmundson tier a 2nd ballpark, just guys I can't see returning a 1st. I think a lot of guys like Shattenkirk get maybe a 3rd. I could be wrong.

 

[Djp]

25%, the double in double max retention, of Gavrikov's salary at the deadline is ~226k the rest of the way.

Even if it was 500k, I'm not sure how you valued that at a 2nd round pick. It's out of scale with Foligno. The Pens only got Reaves and a 4th for eating close to $1.6 mil over 2 years

it has to do with real dollars.

i just said $500K~2nd round pick has a rough benchmark.

i don’t know what Columbus us willing to retain but acquiring teams needs it. So Columbus might do 25% but team needs a third team to retain 50%.

it is not the cap hit but actual money

Patrick Kane real salary is $2.9M
Garikov real salary is $4.2M
Monahan real salary is $6M.

that’s what matters if a third team is involved. This could affect the return.

people on here are only talking the cap hit which means nothing to the teams with cap space to eat contracts.

teams now don’t have as much cap space as the did 2 yrs sgo. Thr costs of third teams likely goes up.

For example buffalo has cap space and is in the WC fight. Are they going to help another east team get a player by doing a pass thru? Ottawa snd Detroit by dealine coukd be in it as well and they have some cap space.

early in the year I looked at teams salaries. Most were over using LTIR or only within $1M. A few teams were in the $1M-$4M in space snd about 6 teams had more space.

supply snd demand drive price.

I see Schenn returning more because it easier for teams to take on his salary.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Columbus retained the max on Savard and Foligno in 2021. Last deadline, they again did the max with Domi.

I see no reason to question Columbus again retaining the full 50%, if an acquiring team needs it (very likely).

 

[squashmaple]

it has to do with real dollars.

i just said $500K~2nd round pick has a rough benchmark.

i don’t know what Columbus us willing to retain but acquiring teams needs it. So Columbus might do 25% but team needs a third team to retain 50%.

it is not the cap hit but actual money

Patrick Kane real salary is $2.9M
Garikov real salary is $4.2M
Monahan real salary is $6M.

that’s what matters if a third team is involved. This could affect the return.

people on here are only talking the cap hit which means nothing to the teams with cap space to eat contracts.

teams now don’t have as much cap space as the did 2 yrs sgo. Thr costs of third teams likely goes up.

For example buffalo has cap space and is in the WC fight. Are they going to help another east team get a player by doing a pass thru? Ottawa snd Detroit by dealine coukd be in it as well and they have some cap space.

early in the year I looked at teams salaries. Most were over using LTIR or only within $1M. A few teams were in the $1M-$4M in space snd about 6 teams had more space.

supply snd demand drive price.

I see Schenn returning more because it easier for teams to take on his salary.

I’m not sure why you keep beating this drum. Columbus has no problem with retaining 50% at all, and with Werenski and Voracek on LTIR they have plenty of space to do so (plus retaining on Nyquist and maybe catching a pick to double retain on someone else for their third retention slot). Also, it is in fact the cap hit that matters to teams who are right up against the cap. Real dollars don’t matter when you can’t even ice a full roster because you’d be over. A player whose cap hit is lower is more valuable to teams with less cap space.

 

[Jumptheshark]

A 3rd thread about the same thing?

yep

BJS are working the media to get as much as they can. What is being reported right now is the same that was reported back in November

but there is one rather large difference

With Savard you had nearly 600 games for a track record--with Gav you have 250--for that is a big difference

 

[majormajor]

yep

BJS are working the media to get as much as they can. What is being reported right now is the same that was reported back in November

but there is one rather large difference

With Savard you had nearly 600 games for a track record--with Gav you have 250--for that is a big difference

One player on the downswing the other right in the middle of his prime.

 

[Jumptheshark]

One player on the downswing the other right in the middle of his prime.

Savard was 29 and Gavs is 27?

 

[Flyer lurker]

Apples and oranges……

just because a player 2 yrs ago got a 1st+ doesn’t mean a similar player gets a 1st this time.

market drives it. At deadline that year many teams at deadline we’re already in the playoffs. This year there is much more uncertainty. Teams don’t want to give up tern picks in this draft for a rental.

this year you have more teams up against the cap.

The D rental market really stinks so he probably can get a 1. Were talking Klinsberg Gudas, Ghost, Maataa and Schenn as competition?

multi year cat
Chychrun for sure goes. Maybe Provorov who knows

 

[majormajor]

Savard was 29 and Gavs is 27?

You'd know if you watched them. Gavi has wheels. To the extent that Savard ever did, those wheels had fallen off around 2020.

 

[Jumptheshark]

You'd know if you watched them. Gavi has wheels. To the extent that Savard ever did, those wheels had fallen off around 2020.

on a good team Gav is a bottom pairing D. I watched Savard enough to see why he got what he got. I saw Gav play in St Petersburgh a few times and did not see anything special

 

[Jumptheshark]

Good Breakdown on why Gav MAY not get as much as Savard

 

[majormajor]

on a good team Gav is a bottom pairing D. I watched Savard enough to see why he got what he got. I saw Gav play in St Petersburgh a few times and did not see anything special

Way to self-own your own scouting ability.

It was Savard who was bottom pair quality in his final year.

Gavi is the most solid second pair guy when he's actually got a team around him.

Good Breakdown on why Gav MAY not get as much as Savard

Sounds like someone who hasn't watched Gavi play for a functional hockey team.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Way to self-own your own scouting ability.

It was Savard who was bottom pair quality in his final year.

Gavi is the most solid second pair guy when he's actually got a team around him.



Sounds like someone who hasn't watched Gavi play for a functional hockey team.

or someone has homer glasses on

 

[archangel2]

Blue Jackets can do the hard sell. But Savard was a better D when he was traded. If they love that Russian D guy so much, the can kept him as they crash into oblivion

 

[Kshahdoo]

Blue Jackets can do the hard sell. But Savard was a better D when he was traded. If they love that Russian D guy so much, the can kept him as they crash into oblivion

Nah, Savard wasn't a better D when he was traded. He wasn't better than Gavrikov back to then and this Gavrikov is more experienced and all of this.

 

[majormajor]

Blue Jackets can do the hard sell. But Savard was a better D when he was traded.

That's completely false. Gavrikov is about as good as prime Savard. We'd know, they played together on the same pairing. And the Savard that was traded to Tampa was clearly past prime.

If they love that Russian D guy so much, the can kept him as they crash into oblivion

If you follow the talk among Jackets fans, that is the preference. We'd rather sign him long term, we don't care as much about more late firsts. And Jarmo has said that they tried. He just doesn't want to stay.

 

[TT1]

wow i guess all trade deadline markets are the same huh?