Series Talk: Around the NHL: Tampa Bay Finally Lost

[Fiji Water]

Skinner posts a sub .860 sv% all playoffs and the two big guns have 38pts between them through 12 games and people are like "Man those two gotta be better."

I mean I agree that they are clearly not the problem, but people were talking as if Crosby and Malkin were not in their league, which is insane given one duo has 3 cups and 4 finals with a pretty pedestrian supporting cast, while the other duo has done jack all in the playoffs so far, admittedly also with a pedestrian supporting cast.

Drai -4 in the playoffs despite all those points, he needs to work on his defensive awareness / effort

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Their team moves forward, forward, forward. They don't support in the DZ, the forwards cheat up ice. They don't play it safe in the OZ, their D jump up for a cross ice pass. It's not an accident they have poor SV%, it's by design

It's by design to try and outscore the opposition because their GM has guys like a 40 year old headcase like Mike Smith or some dork like Stuart Skinner in net.

To be fair to Holland, though he doesn't deserve it, Ekholm was an unreal get for them.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

No, I mean 2009.

The whole point of the post was to point out Sid and Geno won with a hell of a lot less than McDrai keep losing with and beat one of the better teams of the last 20 years to boot.

So if Hossa stayed then.

Sid and Geno had less scoring help but much more defensive help.

 

[Gurglesons]

Another year of Edmonton hitching their superstars' prime to the wagon of atrocious goaltending. As is per tradition.

It's unreal that JR and Holland are in the HHOF as GMs.

-edit- It was such a blessing in disguise that Sid and Geno never really played well or produced when the two-headed monster was put together early in the era.

Sid's 120 point season came with Malkin being his most frequent line mate?

The biggest issue with McDavid and Drai is they aren't as impactful at 5v5 in the playoffs as Sid and Malkin were in their prime.

They are more akin to the Capitals with Ovi where a lot of their production is driven by the powerplay so when they get deep into R2 when the refs hide the whistles they can't react.

 

[SomeDude]

So if Hossa stayed then.

Sid and Geno had less scoring help but much more defensive help.

No. The point was Hossa would have got his Cup in 2009 when he was a member of the Red Wings because McDavid wouldn’t have been able to win with that supporting cast.

I didn’t realize it was that complicated. Time for bed.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

It's by design to try and outscore the opposition because their GM has guys like a 40 year old headcase like Mike Smith or some dork like Stuart Skinner in net.

To be fair to Holland, though he doesn't deserve it, Ekholm was an unreal get for them.

Mike Smith had a very good playoff performance last year.

Do people really think it's just bad luck Campbell's SV% dropped by 26 points?

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I mean I agree that they are clearly not the problem, but people were talking as if Crosby and Malkin were not in their league, which is insane given one duo has 3 cups and 4 finals with a pretty pedestrian supporting cast, while the other duo has done jack all in the playoffs so far, admittedly also with a pedestrian supporting cast.

Drai -4 in the playoffs despite all those points, he needs to work on his defensive awareness / effort

McDavid and Draisaitl are as offensively talented or more so than Sid and Geno, but they're not better players. It can be that simple, and it is, I think.

The fact still remains that their roster is constantly back-stopped by dogshit goaltending and headed by a doofus coach. They also pay Nurse like $3 million more than he should get because he's tight with McDavid and they don't want him to jet.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

No. The point was Hossa would have got his Cup in 2009 when he was a member of the Red Wings because McDavid wouldn’t have been able to win with that supporting cast.

I didn’t realize it was that complicated. Time for bed.

Well it's just a stupid thing to say. McDavid played better defense in these playoffs than Malkin did during our deep runs.
Draisaitl not so much.

Gotta actually watch the games.

 

[Gurglesons]

Well it's just a stupid thing to say. McDavid played better defense in these playoffs than Malkin did during our deep runs.
Draisaitl not so much.

Gotta actually watch the games.

Must've been too young to watch Malkin in his prime.

Malkin in 2008 and 09 was amazing defensively.

 

[Fiji Water]

In 2009, Sid and Geno both had more than 30 pts with wingers like past his prime Guerin, Kunitz, Talbot and Fedotenko, all while playing good to great defense. In my mind, it was the 2 best playoff performances that I have seen since Lemieux in 92. Pens fans have been so fortunate and need to appreciate everything that Sid and Geno have accomplished together

Well it's just a stupid thing to say. McDavid played better defense in these playoffs than Malkin did during our deep runs.
Draisaitl not so much.

Gotta actually watch the games.

Laughable. Go watch Geno in the 2009 cup finals. He was on another level at both ends of the ice

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Mike Smith had a very good playoff performance last year.

Do people really think it's just bad luck Campbell's SV% dropped by 26 points?

Mike Smith is either standing on his head making 45 saves or posting like a .700 sv% and it's a coin flip which guy you're getting. Dude's as volatile as MAF ever was, maybe more so.

-edit- Therrien's influence had Geno playing an absolutely elite, predatory style at both ends of the ice. His points will be the highlight in 2009, but his defensive play rivaled Datsyuk. He was a monster at hounding puck carriers and stealing pucks.

 

[SomeDude]

Well it's just a stupid thing to say. McDavid played better defense in these playoffs than Malkin did during our deep runs.
Draisaitl not so much.

Gotta actually watch the games.

I’m now understanding why I had to explain my post to you 4 times. I thought it was me for a minute.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

In 2009, Sid and Geno both had more than 30 pts with wingers like past his prime Guerin, Kunitz, Talbot and Fedotenko, all while playing good to great defense. In my mind, it was the 2 best playoff performances that I have seen since Lemieux in 92. Pens fans have been so fortunate and need to appreciate everything that Sid and Geno have accomplished together

Our D-corps was more responsible too.

Did anyone watch Bouchard, Desharnais, Ceci, Nurse these playoffs?
Or are veteran fans only capable of talking about 2 players?

 

[Gurglesons]

Yes, our defense of Mark Eaton, Brooks Orpik, and old ass Hal Gill with Gonchar barely able to play 5v5 after the Caps series was amazing.

The 08 and 09 defense was shit and part of the reason we sucked for years after 08-09 in the playoffs because we kept thinking players like Gonchar, Scuderi and Orpik could still do it.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Between giving Nurse almost $10 million for eternity and their issues in goal and behind the bench, the Oilers will forever squander McDavid and Draisaitl. Miserable organization that doesn't deserve those guys, and the sooner they demand trades, the better.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I’m now understanding why I had to explain my post to you 4 times. I thought it was me for a minute.

Yeah you're right about everything by default. That's your mindset going into every conversation here.

 

[Fiji Water]

Scuderi, Hal Gill, Eaton, Gonchar with a torn up knee, a young Letang (who was benched that playoffs) was hardly a stellar D corps

 

[Gurglesons]

Between giving Nurse almost $10 million for eternity and their issues in goal and behind the bench, the Oilers will forever squander McDavid and Draisaitl. Miserable organization that doesn't deserve those guys, and the sooner they demand trades, the better.

The funniest part of that Nurse contract is they signed it AFTER knowing the cap wasn't going up.

Scuderi, Hal Gill, Eaton, Gonchar with a torn up knee, a young Letang (who was benched that playoffs) was hardly a stellar D corps

I'm pretty sure Aurora wasn't watching the Penguins intensively during the 08 and 09 years given some of his takes about that time.

Letang wasn't benched in 09 tho. He was benched in 08 for Boucher.

 

[Turin]

Yes, our defense of Mark Eaton, Brooks Orpik, and old ass Hal Gill with Gonchar barely able to play 5v5 after the Caps series was amazing.

The 08 and 09 defense was shit and part of the reason we sucked for years after 08-09 in the playoffs because we kept thinking players like Gonchar, Scuderi and Orpik could still do it.

It’s a big reason why Detroit was so much more dominant in 2008. They had Lidstrom, Rafalski and Kronwall. Pens had Gonchar, Whitney and Orpik.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

In 2009, Sid and Geno both had more than 30 pts with wingers like past his prime Guerin, Kunitz, Talbot and Fedotenko, all while playing good to great defense. In my mind, it was the 2 best playoff performances that I have seen since Lemieux in 92. Pens fans have been so fortunate and need to appreciate everything that Sid and Geno have accomplished together


Laughable. Go watch Geno in the 2009 cup finals. He was on another level at both ends of the ice

There's 4 rounds every year, not 1.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Well it's just a stupid thing to say. McDavid played better defense in these playoffs than Malkin did during our deep runs.
Draisaitl not so much.

Gotta actually watch the games.

McDavid does not play good defense at all. He's either cheating up ice or when he does put in effort, he's just chasing the puck carrier

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Scuderi, Hal Gill, Eaton, Gonchar with a torn up knee, a young Letang (who was benched that playoffs) was hardly a stellar D corps

Those are names. What was the actual performance on the ice?
What about the bottom 6's defensive work?

 

[Gurglesons]

It’s a big reason why Detroit was so much more dominant in 2008. They had Lidstrom, Rafalski and Kronwall. Pens had Gonchar, Whitney and Orpik.

Yep. Plus they had Ericsson who was a great young player in 09 and Stuart who was playing really well in 08. Stuart fell off a cliff in 09 which allowed us to take full advantage of that squad.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Our D-corps was more responsible too.

Did anyone watch Bouchard, Desharnais, Ceci, Nurse these playoffs?
Or are veteran fans only capable of talking about 2 players?

It's the play style that's the difference. The Oilers' coach (#97) is telling them to not be responsible and to cheat towards offense. Which is also why they create so many offensive opportunities

 

[Gurglesons]

It's the play style that's the difference. The Oilers' coach (#97) is telling them to not be responsible and to cheat towards offense. Which is also why they create so many offensive opportunities

McDavid has been a disappointment in pretty much every international competition and post season he's played in.

This ain't the coach. This is McDavid's game and style.

He has trouble adjusting when the game gets tough. Crosby embraced it.

That's simply the narrative in their legacies at this point. Maybe McDavid changes it one day.