Around the NHL - Playoffs? We're Talkin' 'bout Playoffs?

[joshjull]

Matthews is simply a smarter more intuitive player than Jack.

They have similar quality shots, but Matthews knows where he is and what he wants to do with the puck and therefore he rips off quick shots with little wasted motion or time. Eichel almost never gets off his shot quickly, instead taking time to look over a pass option or a shot and then try to beat a set goalie. When he does shoot quickly, off a pass for example, he often scores or gets a great chance.

The only thing keeping Jack on Matthews level at all, is Jack's freak athletics. His skating is just filthy for a guy his size and it creates a lot of opportunity for Jack to get more time and space than Matthews typically produces.

Hopefully he can build towards being more decisive with the puck, but that is a tough thing to "learn" at this stage of development.

I think you're confusing being a shooter with smarts/decisiveness. Mathews is a shoot first type of player (to date anyways) and is an incredible shooter in tight. He works to get himselves into a good shooting position and fire as soon as he gets the puck. Eichel is a more lets see what's there/what can I do type when he enters the zone. He works the zone looking for options. Jack also has a better shot from mid range on out than Mathews does (Mathews better in tighter). Its why Jack will feel comfortable cranking a cannon wrist shot from above the faceoff cricles once he thinks there isn't a better option.

 

[Dreakon13]

It works both ways. The team is able to utilize and shelter their lines they was they are doing right now because Matthews is taking the hardest matchups and producing while shutting down the opposition. It's not as if they are still using Kadri as the 1C. Matthews is leading the charge and the trickle down effect is that it's making life easier for everyone else. So to imply that Eichel is carrying the team and Matthews is pretty disingenuous.

Another thing about Matthews being close to his ceiling. He still hasn't figured out the PP as well as Eichel has, so he has a lot of improvement to do over there. I can also see him getting even better defensively.

Jack is over a PPG on a team that's constantly losing because he (and others on his lines) are literally the only ones producing. They're devoid of offense and sinking or swimming on his production. He's literally carrying the team. They don't just not win if Eichel isn't putting up points... they get shut out almost every game. The fact he's not just producing, but at over a PPG clip, is damn impressive. Especially since that has to be a very disheartening environment to play in.

Not trying to take credit away from Matthews because he's doing a tremendous job too... but it's just as disingenuous to imply their situations are the same.

 

[AustonsNostrils]

I don't think I've ever seen a player slow the game down the way Eichel does and get away with it usually. This is something only the strongest best puck handlers/protectors do, a coach would freak out on any player other than a franchise star doing it. He needs to shoot more and take the puck to the net more, the way he did in OT to almost win the game. Mathews goes to the net all the time, as I watched him last night he often looks like Eichel.

What a crying shame the NHL isn't going to the Olympics with those two kids leading the USA.

 

[sabrebuild]

I think you're confusing being a shooter with smarts/decisiveness. Mathews is a shoot first type of player (to date anyways) and is an incredible shooter in tight. He works to get himselves into a good shooting position and fire as soon as he gets the puck. Eichel is a more lets see what's there/what can I do type when he enters the zone. He works the zone looking for options. Jack also has a better shot from mid range on out than Mathews does (Mathews better in tighter). Its why Jack will feel comfortable cranking a cannon wrist shot from above the faceoff cricles once he thinks there isn't a better option.

I'm not, but I appreciate the thought.

That's just one aspect of their games. Matthews is more of a shooter in general than Eichel, if you want to look at in terms of a general bias.

But that is not just a stylistic difference, it's an effectiveness difference. Eichel should shoot more often and quicker. He tries to pass frequently in situations where shooting is the right choice.

Look if he was playing with a laine or some other elite shooter, I'd be more interested in debating whether he is just pass first and his way is just as effective. But he isn't. He is always the most dangerous shooter in the ice and will be for the foreseeable future.

 

[AustonsNostrils]

wow, this analytics kid on Twitter whose charts always forecast doom for the Sabres has landed a huge gig for Kroenke Sports as their analytics guru for not just the Avs but also the Nuggets, Rams, Arsenal

If you have never heard the name Dawson Sprigings, you’re not alone. Going by the Twitter handle @DTMAboutHeart, Sprigings, a native of Mississauga, Ontario, has mostly Tweeted about hockey analytics in his young, 23-year-old life. He played as a goalie at Wesleyan University, a Division III school.

But, his life is more about hockey now. In recent days, Kroenke Sports Entertainment has hired Sprigings to be their “Analytics Modeler” for all of their pro sports properties. That includes the Colorado Avalanche, Denver Nuggets,, Los Angeles Rams, Arsenal of the English Premier League, the Colorado Rapids and the Colorado Mammoth.

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

wow, this analytics kid on Twitter whose charts always forecast doom for the Sabres has landed a huge gig for Kroenke Sports as their analytics guru for not just the Avs but also the Nuggets, Rams, Arsenal

No idea about the other two but no amount of analutics will help Avs or Arsenal eho are both laughing stocks of their leagues.

 

[joshjull]

I'm not, but I appreciate the thought.

That's just one aspect of their games. Matthews is more of a shooter in general than Eichel, if you want to look at in terms of a general bias.


Look if he was playing with a laine or some other elite shooter, I'd be more interested in debating whether he is just pass first and his way is just as effective. But he isn't. He is always the most dangerous shooter in the ice and will be for the foreseeable future.

But that is not just a stylistic difference, it's an effectiveness difference. Eichel should shoot more often and quicker. He tries to pass frequently in situations where shooting is the right choice.

I'd like to see Jack shoot more as well and he does pass up some good chances. But the argument that Jack isn't as effective as Mathews doesn't hold up IMO.

Eichel
- has either scored (2) or had the primary assist (5) on 7 ES goals.(7 total ESpts)
- 9 pts overall (2g 7a) in 7gms (1 PP assist/1 SH assist)
- Taken 19 shots/ shooting% = 10.5%
- Sabres are 19th in 5v5 goals (9 goals)/ 23rd in goals per game
- plays 15:30mins per night at ES/ 20: 43mins overall


Mathews
- has either scored (5) or the primary assist (2) on 7 ES goals. (8 total ESpts).
- 10pts overall (6g 4a) in 7gms (1g + 1 a on PP)
- Taken 19 shots/ shooting% = 31.6%
- Leafs lead NHL in 5v5 goals/ 1st in goals per game
- plays 14:55mins per night at ES/ 17:47mins overall


Mathews plays primarily just an offensive role on the best offensive team in the NHL. Jack plays roughly 3 mins more a night, is asked to do more things than Mathews is and until ROR woke up last game, has been carrying the offense. Its pretty fair to say he has a tougher overall role for us than Mathews does with the Leafs. Because of all this and the numbers above, I don't think there is much to base the effectiveness argument on.

Not directing this specifically to you...... But it seems like many are mad we aren't as good as the Leafs but bizarrely aim their frustration at Jack. So they nitpick his game in comparison to Mathews to vent.

 

[Jame]

Not sure where this belongs... but.... we need to organize:

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/members/?type=likes

 

[Der Jaeger]

Not sure where this belongs... but.... we need to organize:

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/members/?type=likes

Wow. Well played.

 

[Aladyyn]

Not sure where this belongs... but.... we need to organize:

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/members/?type=likes

I was wondering what the deal was. Nice.

 

[NotABadPeriod]

Not sure where this belongs... but.... we need to organize:

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/members/?type=likes

Well, they say nothing about the Sabres...

(did the sabers autocorrect transfer to the new forums?)

EDIT: Guess not. Buffaloed, we need you!

 

[FoSotC]

Not sure where this belongs... but.... we need to organize:

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/members/?type=likes

Well... they aren't wrong.

 

[Advanced stats]

I'd like to see Jack shoot more as well and he does pass up some good chances. But the argument that Jack isn't as effective as Mathews doesn't hold up IMO.

Eichel
- has either scored (2) or had the primary assist (5) on 7 ES goals.(7 total ESpts)
- 9 pts overall (2g 7a) in 7gms (1 PP assist/1 SH assist)
- Taken 19 shots/ shooting% = 10.5%
- Sabres are 19th in 5v5 goals (9 goals)/ 23rd in goals per game
- plays 15:30mins per night at ES/ 20: 43mins overall


Mathews
- has either scored (5) or the primary assist (2) on 7 ES goals. (8 total ESpts).
- 10pts overall (6g 4a) in 7gms (1g + 1 a on PP)
- Taken 19 shots/ shooting% = 31.6%
- Leafs lead NHL in 5v5 goals/ 1st in goals per game
- plays 14:55mins per night at ES/ 17:47mins overall


Mathews plays primarily just an offensive role on the best offensive team in the NHL. Jack plays roughly 3 mins more a night, is asked to do more things than Mathews is and until ROR woke up last game, has been carrying the offense. Its pretty fair to say he has a tougher overall role for us than Mathews does with the Leafs. Because of all this and the numbers above, I don't think there is much to base the effectiveness argument on.

Not directing this specifically to you...... But it seems like many are mad we aren't as good as the Leafs but bizarrely aim their frustration at Jack. So they nitpick his game in comparison to Mathews to vent.

Greetings from Toronto, just scrolling through Buffalo's board, genuinely wondering how the sabres are doing and what's up with your less than satisfying start. I hope we can one day be great rivals!

I had no intention of posting here as it's clearly not my place, but I have a few questions that are burning my mind. You seem like a very informed poster who can chat

Regarding the bolded:
1. How can you say Matthews plays a primarily offensive role when he starts his shifts in the defensive zone 63% of the time.
Zone starts

Eichel: Ozonestart 64% Dzone 36%
Matthews: Ozonestart 37% Dzone 63%.
-hockey reference

It seems Eichel has the much much better offensive starts and thus should be much better? Either way, I'd say your point is wrong in stating that Matthews plays a primarily offensive role.

2. With Eichel playing a substantial 3+ more minutes than Matthews, shouldn't his stats be significantly better? The stats you posted at the beginning of your post seem to indicate that Matthews is doing better?

3. How does Eichel have a tougher role than Matthews?
Eichel is seemingly gifted PP toi with 4:19 minutes per game. Matthews only gets 2:48 per game. Eichel actually has the easier role and gets more minutes, and should theoretically be doing better?
What's so tough about Eichel's role that Matthews doesn't have?

Like I said I'd love for Buffalo to do well, I'm just confused by the post.

As I'm a leafs fan, you can choose to ignore me if you like, or tell me to GTFO. I was just curious, and seriously not trying to cause issues. I don't think it's a problem to ask questions on another teams board. Either way, good luck Buffalo!

 

[littletonhockeycoach]

Don't.....take.....the......bait.......

They always just want to talk and be friendly. Next thing you know you're getting a mug shot and booked down at the station........

 

[Advanced stats]

Don't.....take.....the......bait.......

They always just want to talk and be friendly. Next thing you know you're getting a mug shot and booked down at the station........

Not trying to bait anyone just wondering how the poster can say all that without really backing it up. No way I'd type out 10 paragraphs too "bait" someone. Like I said, I genuinely hope Buffalo finds their game. Their so so close, and I think will come around this season yet.

 

[Beerz]

I'd like to see Jack shoot more as well and he does pass up some good chances. But the argument that Jack isn't as effective as Mathews doesn't hold up IMO.

Eichel
- has either scored (2) or had the primary assist (5) on 7 ES goals.(7 total ESpts)
- 9 pts overall (2g 7a) in 7gms (1 PP assist/1 SH assist)
- Taken 19 shots/ shooting% = 10.5%
- Sabres are 19th in 5v5 goals (9 goals)/ 23rd in goals per game
- plays 15:30mins per night at ES/ 20: 43mins overall


Mathews
- has either scored (5) or the primary assist (2) on 7 ES goals. (8 total ESpts).
- 10pts overall (6g 4a) in 7gms (1g + 1 a on PP)
- Taken 19 shots/ shooting% = 31.6%
- Leafs lead NHL in 5v5 goals/ 1st in goals per game
- plays 14:55mins per night at ES/ 17:47mins overall


Mathews plays primarily just an offensive role on the best offensive team in the NHL. Jack plays roughly 3 mins more a night, is asked to do more things than Mathews is and until ROR woke up last game, has been carrying the offense. Its pretty fair to say he has a tougher overall role for us than Mathews does with the Leafs. Because of all this and the numbers above, I don't think there is much to base the effectiveness argument on.

Not directing this specifically to you...... But it seems like many are mad we aren't as good as the Leafs but bizarrely aim their frustration at Jack. So they nitpick his game in comparison to Mathews to vent.

It's really not about points or producing. Jack is producing fine..but when you just watch the two of them play I am more impressed with Matthews..he has a much more mature game, he dictates the game more.. has more control. Matthews seems to know what he wants to do and when he wants to do it. Doesn't seem to have anywhere near the amount of mistakes Jack does in terms of turning puck over or hurting you defensively.

I'm not mad about the Leafs being sucessful..i think it has to do more with other players then Jack and Austin when it comes to comparing the 2 teams. I just look at how both play and I think Matthews is a cut above at 5his point

 

[littletonhockeycoach]

Not trying to bait anyone just wondering how the poster can say all that without really backing it up. Like I said, I genuinely hope Buffalo finds their game. Their so so close, and I think will come around this season yet.

We are no where close to finding our game. And won't without serious roster changes.

 

[Brobust]

wow, this analytics kid on Twitter whose charts always forecast doom for the Sabres has landed a huge gig for Kroenke Sports as their analytics guru for not just the Avs but also the Nuggets, Rams, Arsenal

Not a fan. Too soon and too little data in hockey analytics for amalgamation stats like GAR/WAR but he went all in on them the previous season and made some absurd arguments to defend it.

 

[Chainshot]

Anyone else catch this?

 

[Sabreality]

Preds/Flyers getting my attention tonight. Philly's team speed is darn impressive, theyre gonna be handful for years to come if they can get a true 1G. (Sandstrom, Hart, Lyon in the system)

 

[Team Cozens]

I think you're confusing being a shooter with smarts/decisiveness. Mathews is a shoot first type of player (to date anyways) and is an incredible shooter in tight. He works to get himselves into a good shooting position and fire as soon as he gets the puck. Eichel is a more lets see what's there/what can I do type when he enters the zone. He works the zone looking for options. Jack also has a better shot from mid range on out than Mathews does (Mathews better in tighter). Its why Jack will feel comfortable cranking a cannon wrist shot from above the faceoff cricles once he thinks there isn't a better option.

Three of Matthews six goals have come when the other team had 3 skaters on the ice. (Two 3on3 and a 5on3). His shot is incredible but I haven't been impressed otherwise. Nylander on the other had has been dynamic and dominant.

 

[joshjull]

 

[EichHart]

Sergs with 2 goals for Tampa. 6 pts in 7 games. You guys were right, I was wrong. Sergs was the obvious choice.

 

[Chainshot]

Sergs with 2 goals for Tampa. 6 pts in 7 games. You guys were right, I was wrong. Sergs was the obvious choice.

Eh, with the way they've handled development, they probably would've made him play in the NHL last season and screwed him all up.

 

[Chainshot]

Frightening moment in the Carolina-Calgary game as Versteeg hurts his knee and falls to the ice, at which point Skinner takes a slapper from the point that drills Versteeg in the side of the head. Looks like the knee is the problem but man, that could've been so much worse.