Around the League Thread: 2017 Season Begins

[Anthrax442]

Curious about the Seattle situation. What is the timeline. Can they get a new team by 2018 season?

 

[Amadeus]

Is it just me or is this Listerine thing that P.K has going beyond lame?

 

[Daisy Jane]

Is it just me or is this Listerine thing that P.K has going beyond lame?

it was lame to begin with. esp. the target.
Crosby was never going to engage with that - where another player would be like haha, yah get it over with (like it was obvious Crosby was going with the eff off, and Subban was eff offing him right back).

 

[Gallagbi]

Is it just me or is this Listerine thing that P.K has going beyond lame?

Not just you, it was an eye roll and a groan the second it came out.

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[Mikeyg]

Price coming in with an 10-12 mill AAV 8 year max contract ask, wow! habs window is closed so shut that the hinge broke off. Mark my words, we will win a cup before the toilets will. Id love nothing more than price soaking up ~90 mill in funds.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Good for Price, obvious you expect him to ask big but going for the farm is good to see after he's carried the team for many years and been their MVP.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Good for Price, obvious you expect him to ask big but going for the farm is good to see after he's carried the team for many years and been their MVP.

not really. like I get it (from his POV) but i always have to wonder if they never think.
If he asks for that much - obviously Monreal ill find it - but how on earth with that + Weber's hit are they gonna find players to fill in and actually win?

So many times people will answer "that's not the players problem. " well no - it's not - but if the goal is to win a cup (multiple cups if you believe your team has a chance to rip off several in a time period) - why not ask for a few million less so you can achieve that? chicago would be a lot better without 21m tied to 2 people.


That's gonna be one interesting look at Montreal though.

 

[Menzinger]

Signing Price to that kind of caphit (at his age) would be a dream for Leafs fans.

It'll help kill off the Habs cal situation. Once Bergevin is eventually fired his replacement is going to have quite the mess to clean up

 

[showtime8]

not really. like I get it (from his POV) but i always have to wonder if they never think.
If he asks for that much - obviously Monreal ill find it - but how on earth with that + Weber's hit are they gonna find players to fill in and actually win?

So many times people will answer "that's not the players problem. " well no - it's not - but if the goal is to win a cup (multiple cups if you believe your team has a chance to rip off several in a time period) - why not ask for a few million less so you can achieve that? chicago would be a lot better without 21m tied to 2 people.


That's gonna be one interesting look at Montreal though.

A lot of it has to do with having the allegiance to a certain player from the GM's/Owners point of view. Whether it is with Price, who has been nothing but amazing for that franchise. Or if it's Toews, who has been an amazing captain, but has never put up more than 80 pts in a season.

The league is definitely "what have you done for me lately?" and a lot of the GM's are still in the "thanks for all the nice things you've done for me, so we'll look after you" mentality.

The turnover in this league is unreal, so players need to look after themselves (in reference to your point about taking less), and it's basically lip service that they'd like to win for the long term. But you have to honestly ask yourself, Daisy - here's 10million dollars and here's 8 million dollars, which one do you want? Well that's an easy choice. The player isn't in control of the salary cap & other spending that the franchise makes.

 

[Menzinger]

The way the league handles contracts is all screwed up. Due to to RFA status, teams get young players the best years for supercheap then they reward thise players once they hit UFa (who are by then often physically on the decline) with these huge contracts that they'll never be able to live up to

 

[Daisy Jane]

A lot of it has to do with having the allegiance to a certain player from the GM's/Owners point of view. Whether it is with Price, who has been nothing but amazing for that franchise. Or if it's Toews, who has been an amazing captain, but has never put up more than 80 pts in a season.

The league is definitely "what have you done for me lately?" and a lot of the GM's are still in the "thanks for all the nice things you've done for me, so we'll look after you" mentality.

The turnover in this league is unreal, so players need to look after themselves (in reference to your point about taking less), and it's basically lip service that they'd like to win for the long term. But you have to honestly ask yourself, Daisy - here's 10million dollars and here's 8 million dollars, which one do you want? Well that's an easy choice. The player isn't in control of the salary cap & other spending that the franchise makes.

well truthfully, i'd want 8m dollars and the chance to win vs. 10m dollars and my team is crap. but that's just me (seriously) like i've taken jobs where i'd earn less money but have better job satisfaction, and i think it's v. much the same way here.

Take less money allow your GM to build the best damned team vs.
Take more money/what you are worth & have potentially a crap team.

like i said. i get that the player doesn't worry about it but it would 100 percent be in MY mind.

 

[Mess]

Signing Price to that kind of caphit (at his age) would be a dream for Leafs fans.

It'll help kill off the Habs cal situation. Once Bergevin is eventually fired his replacement is going to have quite the mess to clean up

Would you rather have Price or Matthews locked up long-term at that price point ?

In a couple season from now Leafs might very well be facing the same situation where they lock up their best player for $10 mil AAV cap hit.

Would you rather a #1 goalie or #1C becomes the question?. As far as the Cap goes won't both teams be in the same boat?

 

[Menzinger]

Would you rather have Price or Matthews locked up long-term at that price point ?

In a couple season from now Leafs might very well be facing the same situation where they lock up their best player for $10 mil AAV cap hit.

Would you rather a #1 goalie or #1C becomes the question?. As far as the Cap goes won't both teams be in the same boat?

Matthews quite easily.

An 8 year deal post ELC takes Matthews straight through his prime and the Leafs would arguably get 10 million dollars worth of on ice value from that contract.

Price is already 29, so question then emerges is a 33-37 year old version of him going to be as good as he is now? Doubtful.

Paying a player lots of money so fine as long as if they're able to perform at a level that justifies the cap hit.

 

[showtime8]

The way the league handles contracts is all screwed up. Due to to RFA status, teams get young players the best years for supercheap then they reward thise players once they hit UFa (who are by then often physically on the decline) with these huge contracts that they'll never be able to live up to

Yeah, I think the league hasn't adapted to how the league is trending in terms of how young players are playing sooner and the veterans aren't signing the long deals deep in their 30's. ie. Ron Francis signed a 5 year deal in 2003 with the Hurricanes when he was 36. Most guys are retiring at that point now or being pushed out of the league.

The league needs to adapt in terms of ELC & performance contracts. Most GM's get sucked in to the NMC & NTC deals as well. Time to get rid of those as well.

 

[Gallagbi]

Yeah, I think the league hasn't adapted to how the league is trending in terms of how young players are playing sooner and the veterans aren't signing the long deals deep in their 30's. ie. Ron Francis signed a 5 year deal in 2003 with the Hurricanes when he was 36. Most guys are retiring at that point now or being pushed out of the league.

The league needs to adapt in terms of ELC & performance contracts. Most GM's get sucked in to the NMC & NTC deals as well. Time to get rid of those as well.

Why do they need to adapt?

 

[ACC1224]

Would you rather have Price or Matthews locked up long-term at that price point ?

In a couple season from now Leafs might very well be facing the same situation where they lock up their best player for $10 mil AAV cap hit.

Would you rather a #1 goalie or #1C becomes the question?. As far as the Cap goes won't both teams be in the same boat?

Matthews pretty easily. Leafs have a #1 Goalie already.

You can win with great players and a good goalie. You can't win with just a great goalie.

 

[Menzinger]

Why do they need to adapt?

Because teams keep giving these vets huge contracts which they'll never live up to.

Sooner or later there needs to be a GM to wise up to this. I'm not sure if the league needs to formally change its rules, but if teams want to avoid handicapping themselves sometime it can be better long term to trade a player than give them a ridiculous new contract

 

[Gallagbi]

Because teams keep giving these vets huge contracts which they'll never live up to.

Thats a team issue, not a league issue IMO.

Sooner or later there needs to be a GM to wise up to this. I'm not sure if the league needs to formally change its rules, but if teams want to avoid handicapping themselves sometime it can be better long term to trade a player than give them a ridiculous new contract

We've seen examples of it where GMs trade expiring assets even when they're in a playoff race (TB this year).

 

[Menzinger]

Thats a team issue, not a league issue IMO.


We've seen examples of it where GMs trade expiring assets even when they're in a playoff race (TB this year).

They do, but I don't necessarily think we've seen a team trade a player like say a Toews rather then sign them to an overpriced contract. Now Chicago is paying a 59 point Toews 10+ million a season for what he did as a 22-26 year old: and he team is crunched for cap space.

 

[Gallagbi]

They do, but I don't necessarily think we've seen a team trade a player like say a Toews rather then sign them to an overpriced contract. Now Chicago is paying a 59 point Toews 10+ million a season for what he did as a 22-26 year old: and he team is crunched for cap space.

I think I'm reading that posters response more literally than intended.

I read "the League" as Bettman/etc, not the collection of GMs within it.

To your point, I agree, but you have to have some big balls to trade your franchise player while being a contender. Winning makes people forget, but you have to win a cup or two for people to overlook dumping Toews.

 

[showtime8]

Why do they need to adapt?

I think that we'd be able to see the best talent instead of trying to deal with cap nightmares.

The best players will play.


I'm not sure how they can do it, but set the standard so that it doesn't get carried away with these 8 year deals that you're buying out in 3-4 years after signing it.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Matthews quite easily.

An 8 year deal post ELC takes Matthews straight through his prime and the Leafs would arguably get 10 million dollars worth of on ice value from that contract.

Price is already 29, so question then emerges is a 33-37 year old version of him going to be as good as he is now?

What if Price was Matthews age? Yes, its a hypothetical question.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

1. Matthews pretty easily. Leafs have a #1 Goalie already.

2. You can win with great players and a good goalie. You can't win with just a great goalie.

1. What if you had the same goalie playing for the both teams. Yes, its purely a hypothetical question.

2. I think you need both?

 

[Menzinger]

What if Price was Matthews age? Yes, its a hypothetical question.

Would be more inclined to say "yes" to that type of deal under that context - HOWEVER that's an awful lot of cap space to tie up into a starting goalie - the core position that's probably the easiest to fill. You just can't replace a player like Matthews which is why the Leafs will need to give him every penny that he asks for