Around the League Part 7: Hey Avs, Throw Us a Bone

[Blueline Bomber]

Avs are apparently open to dealing Duchene and Landeskog, but want a D in return, and presumably a really good one.

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[A Star is Burns]

You never know what will happen, but at this point, you'd have to think that our best bet to see a trade with the Avs would be in the offseason. Can't see us wanting to trade one of our D in the middle of the season unless we're either out of it, or they grow super comfortable with Dahlbeck and Murphy, or really have a lot of confidence in the Charlotte guys. Either that, or the Avs would have to really want to go for a tear it down and load up on prospects in which case we have some good AHL and junior level guys they could take a look at.

I guess there's also the possibility of getting Barrie thrown into the deal somehow, but at that point, we're possibly adding more salary than we want to. I think overall we make pretty good trade partners with the Avs, but it's one of those things where we still don't know if Francis can or is willing to pull of a deal of this magnitude. Also, the Avs may just insist on the guys we probably aren't going to want to include in a trade at this point.

 

[geehaad]

An article I read said that the Isles inquired about Duchene and came away with "sticker shock". That doesn't sound like the prelude to a deal with the Hurricanes.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

If it were us, I'd be looking to trade to a contender desperate for a final piece, and willing to sell big chunks of their future to get it.

That ain't us.

 

[Penaltykiller17]

I'd give up Fleury + Bean, but that would be about it. They want a LHD, but at this stage I'm not giving Hanifin or Slavin away. We need to build around them instead subtracting.

 

[A Star is Burns]

All good points. We may be better off waiting to see who has a cap crunch again and going for them in a Saad like deal. We'll be much more likely to find big time value for our AHL dmen, prospects, and draft picks at that point. Not too sure who might be available in that vein, or if they'll be quite what we're looking for. But in that scenario, we could possibly even afford to slightly overpay in young assets to get a guy. Maybe by that point, the Avs will be in more of a blow it up mode, like if Sakic is gone and that's the direction of the new guy, and we can revisit those guys.

 

[cptjeff]

I'd give up Fleury + Bean, but that would be about it. They want a LHD, but at this stage I'm not giving Hanifin or Slavin away. We need to build around them instead subtracting.

Fleury + Bean is a good basis for a deal, IMO. Both will be NHLers, and the odds that at least one of the two will turn into something very good are high. Fleury, Bean, warm-body-NHL forward (say, Nestrasil), 2nd rounder? Gives Colorado two very good LHD for the future, gives them an option to plug into their NHL roster for Duchene without calling up a prospect they want developing in the minors, and a decent pick. It helps the Canes now, it helps the Avs long term.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

From what I've seen on the main boards, the only deal Avs fans are interested in is either Hanifin or Slavin for Duchene. Of course, that's just fans, but if the reports out of NYI are true that they got "sticker shock", I'd be surprised if a deal for a couple of prospects with some question marks to them gets it done.

 

[HisIceness]

Coyotes claimed Burmistrov.

 

[cptjeff]

From what I've seen on the main boards, the only deal Avs fans are interested in is either Hanifin or Slavin for Duchene. Of course, that's just fans, but if the reports out of NYI are true that they got "sticker shock", I'd be surprised if a deal for a couple of prospects with some question marks to them gets it done.

I rarely bother with the trade board, because most of the people there are stupid, and rather belligerently so. Remember what the trade board thought about Yakupov, Hall, Rick Nash? Yeah. It's entirely possible the Avs only want to move him if they have their socks blown off, but two blue chip defensive prospects from the team that's done a better job of developing defensive talent than any other in recent years (and boy, is that weird to say), plus an NHL roster player and a high round pick is not exactly chump change. That's a very high value offer despite Bean and Fleury not being in the NHL yet. We would be giving up a lot by giving up those two, it just doesn't hurt us to do that like it would a team like the Isles (or most anyone else) because we have such a huge depth in defensive prospects.

 

[Roboturner913]

Said this on the trade board, but if they really want to blow up and go full-scale rebuild, then taking prospects and picks is the way to go. If we were to offer them Fleury + Bean + a 1st and a throw-in like Zykov they'd be foolish not to take that, if again, they're really committed to a rebuild.

Myself I don't really see the point of trading for a Duchene or Landeskog, just because they happen to be available at the moment. This team most likely isn't making the playoffs even if they continue to play at a 96-97 point pace.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I rarely bother with the trade board, because most of the people there are stupid, and rather belligerently so. Remember what the trade board thought about Yakupov, Hall, Rick Nash? Yeah.

You have to sift through to separate the wheat from the chaff. While there are some stupid and belligerent people there, there are also a number of reasonable people there as well where you can have informed discussions. While fans of all teams (including us) tend to overrate our players and prospects, they also are a lot closer to the pulse of their own team than others so I value that input. The thing about pointing out the trades that do happen that fans were wrong about, is that there are probably 10x more that didn't happen that the fans were right about it. In this case though, it's not just fans. It's an actual news sources that stated the price was too and/or the Avs "won't sell cheap". From Friedman for instance:

What colorado has apparently told people is don’t ask about Nathan MacKinnon, don’t ask about Mikko Rantanen, who was their #1 pick last year. Now if you’re asking about a Duchene or Landeskog, and from what I understand teams have been told; look, we’re not giving these guys away because we’re panicking, if you want to come at us with young defensmen, good young defensmen or good young defensive prospects, we are prepared to listen, but the packages will have to be big because they see Duchene and Landeskog as good players signed to good contracts.

It's entirely possible the Avs only want to move him if they have their socks blown off, but two blue chip defensive prospects from the team that's done a better job of developing defensive talent than any other in recent years (and boy, is that weird to say), plus an NHL roster player and a high round pick is not exactly chump change. That's a very high value offer despite Bean and Fleury not being in the NHL yet. We would be giving up a lot by giving up those two, it just doesn't hurt us to do that like it would a team like the Isles (or most anyone else) because we have such a huge depth in defensive prospects.

Yeah, Bean and Fleury and a 2nd could be a good offer. (Nestrasil right now is a marginal, dime a dozen NHL player though and has little value IMO), but I think it all depends on how the Avs look at those 2 guys. Both of them, IMO, have a lot of risk in becoming top 4 defensemen in this league so while they are mid-high 1st rounders, the Avs would have to assess that risk when giving up a player of Duchene's caliber. If I was in their shoes, I'd want someone a bit more proven as part of the deal.

Personally, I don't see the point in trading for a Duchene right now. Would I love to have him on this team? Yes. Would I want to give up what it would take and then have him be a UFA in 2 years? No. Like Hank (I think) said, I see him going to a contender who thinks he is the missing piece.

 

[Brock Anton]

Yeah, I'm not trading Hanifin (Slavin is just not happening) for 2 years of Duchene. If he agrees to an extension as part of the trade, I'd consider trading Hanifin. Otherwise, I don't see a deal to be had there.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Yeah, I'm not trading Hanifin (Slavin is just not happening) for 2 years of Duchene. If he agrees to an extension as part of the trade, I'd consider trading Hanifin. Otherwise, I don't see a deal to be had there.

I don't think that's realistic as Duchene really doesn't have any incentive to do that. Even if it was realistic, I don't think the CBA even allows it until a player is in the final year of his existing contract.

 

[bleedgreen]

Landeskog makes a lot more sense for the way the team is currently constructed. We don't have a power winger, he'd add an element of that we really lack. We're pretty decent at center unless we're makig some large changes there. None of Rask/Staal or Duchene are wingers, despite Duchene getting played there sometimes.

 

[GoldiFox]

Landeskog is everything this team is missing. With Teravainen, Aho, and Skinner in the top-6 they need a scorer with some bite. I'd give up a pretty good futures package for him if that is what they are looking for.

 

[cptjeff]

Yeah, Bean and Fleury and a 2nd could be a good offer. (Nestrasil right now is a marginal, dime a dozen NHL player though and has little value IMO), but I think it all depends on how the Avs look at those 2 guys. Both of them, IMO, have a lot of risk in becoming top 4 defensemen in this league so while they are mid-high 1st rounders, the Avs would have to assess that risk when giving up a player of Duchene's caliber. If I was in their shoes, I'd want someone a bit more proven as part of the deal.

Personally, I don't see the point in trading for a Duchene right now. Would I love to have him on this team? Yes. Would I want to give up what it would take and then have him be a UFA in 2 years? No. Like Hank (I think) said, I see him going to a contender who thinks he is the missing piece.

Nestrasil, in this deal, is a throw in so that both teams keep the same number of forwards on their NHL rosters. Limits the amount of tinkering each team has to do with its roster and contract situation.

And I really think Duchene would be a great move. He's under contract for two more years after this one- this isn't a rental. A contender who wants to go over the top this season won't pay what it takes to get three years of a guy- they want guys on expiring contracts. And if we don't break into the playoffs this year, and I think that we really need to push for that if just for the sake of keeping the fanbase around, we're going to be looking to do it next year, and he would be an incredibly valuable piece. The only way this team gets better is by aggressively making moves to get better- you can't build through the draft alone, and we don't exactly attract the cream of the crop in the UFA market. You can't just sit and wait for talent to magically appear. We have an absurd surplus of good young D, both in the NHL and as prospects. If we're ever going to be a contender, we have to build by trading some of them for guys who can be stars.

Oh, and doing the same or a similar move for Landeskog would work for me too, for the same reasons. Players like those guys aren't available very often, it's probably worth it to grab one of them.

 

[Penaltykiller17]

I too think Duchene would be the better fit for Carolina. This team still needs a #1 center and a goal scorer, and Duchene fits both of those bills. Also, Duchene's only 25, which is still young enough to fit into what the team is trying to accomplish. Trading for him, in my opinion would be a good move short term and long term. I think Landeskog could serve a purpose as well, but I don't value his attributes over Duchene's. And his contract is too good, and would fit perfectly on a budget team like Carolina. And if his play continues, I'm confident GMRF could get him extended.

In addition, this is year 3 into the rebuild. Playoff talk should at the minimum be visible in the rear-view mirror. Hanifin/Slavin/Pesce seem to be playing up to snuff in addition to Faulk. There's really no need to sit on two prospects who likely won't surpass our current roster players.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Didn't Landeskog play junior hockey with Skinner?

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Nestrasil, in this deal, is a throw in so that both teams keep the same number of forwards on their NHL rosters. Limits the amount of tinkering each team has to do with its roster and contract situation.

Ah, fair enough.

And I really think Duchene would be a great move. He's under contract for two more years after this one- this isn't a rental. A contender who wants to go over the top this season won't pay what it takes to get three years of a guy- they want guys on expiring contracts. And if we don't break into the playoffs this year, and I think that we really need to push for that if just for the sake of keeping the fanbase around, we're going to be looking to do it next year, and he would be an incredibly valuable piece. The only way this team gets better is by aggressively making moves to get better- you can't build through the draft alone, and we don't exactly attract the cream of the crop in the UFA market. You can't just sit and wait for talent to magically appear. We have an absurd surplus of good young D, both in the NHL and as prospects. If we're ever going to be a contender, we have to build by trading some of them for guys who can be stars.

Oh, and doing the same or a similar move for Landeskog would work for me too, for the same reasons. Players like those guys aren't available very often, it's probably worth it to grab one of them.

I think there certainly ARE contenders/near contenders who would make a deal for Duchene. Not every team only wants rentals. Although it wasn't mid season, the Pens did exactly that when they went out and got Kessel and then again when they traded for Hagelin mid season (with 3 years left on his deal). Canes aren't the only team with young prospects that they can send to Colorado. Some teams (Minn, Ana, etc..) likely will have to make a move at some point or they'll lose guys to the expansion draft. Teams like Montreal, Philly, CLB, etc.. have either a deep D pool or a number of top D prospects as well.

That said, I'd don't really have a problem obtaining Duchene, but just think the price (as I mentioned above) will be too high to be worth it. I think the Avs will insist on Slavin or Hanifin, and then I think that's too steep of a price for 2 years of Duchene. If it can be done with D prospects, then that's probably ok (depending on what the total deal is). I'd be surprised if the Avs would just accept prospects with as much risk as Fleury and/or Bean, but that's just complete speculation on my part. With Slavin and Hanifin being in the NHL and on ELCs, Fleury "kinda" is expendable and Bean is a long way from playing in the NHL IMO.

Landeskog is different as he's under contract for longer. He's not quite as good offensively as Duchene, he adds a different element that the Canes don't have. As for which one "fits" better, it's a toss-up. We need what both of them bring to the table, and maybe what Landeskog brings a little more.

 

[HisIceness]

Didn't Landeskog play junior hockey with Skinner?

Yes. Skinners last season w/ Kitchener they were teammates.

 

[A Star is Burns]

They were roomies too I believe. Maybe even BFFs.

 

[cptjeff]

They were roomies too I believe. Maybe even BFFs.

Landeskog to Carolina (E6)

 

[RodTheBawd]

fanfic?

 

[DaveG]

fanfic?