Around the League 30: who's panicking?

[Navin R Slavin]

teams like Carolina and Nashville should be in the same division

Hot take: the Triangle region is now more like the mid-Atlantic then it is like the rest of the South, judging from the number of people from mid-Atlantic states that have moved here and still continue to move here.

 

[chaz4hockey]

There already is a second Ontario team, Ottawa. Now another GTA team in say Kitchener would make some sense in terms of economic support, but who's putting up the billion plus to buy a team and move it there while having to pay for going well within Toronto's broadcast/market territory?

Ah, damn my geography. I meant the Toronto area of course.

I've always viewed Ottawa as an extension to Montreal's (120 miles or so) market versus Toronto (280 miles or so). Toronto has the population & TV eyeballs to support an additional team (although some would say that would hurt Buffalo & that Buffalo is Toronto's second team).

 

[AD Skinner]

Meruelo thought he was in a pissing match with the City of Glendale, but he brought piss to a shit fight, and Glendale just slapped him in the face and threw his bicycle over the hedge, and now Meruelo is running to get the real Adderall.

These are some spectacular sentences

 

[hblueridgegal]

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

Ah, damn my geography. I meant the Toronto area of course.

I've always viewed Ottawa as an extension to Montreal's (120 miles or so) market versus Toronto (280 miles or so). Toronto has the population & TV eyeballs to support an additional team (although some would say that would hurt Buffalo & that Buffalo is Toronto's second team).

When Toronto visits Ottawa you would swear you’re in Toronto. The arena is a sea of blue. It’s pretty embarrassing for the sens.

Some are locals, obviously, because leafs fans are everywhere but many make the 4 hour drive from Toronto because it’s that much cheaper.

Even here in Vancouver tickets to a game against the leafs are 4-5x what I paid for rinkside seats to the game against the canes.

 

[CanesUltimate11]

Ah, damn my geography. I meant the Toronto area of course.

I've always viewed Ottawa as an extension to Montreal's (120 miles or so) market versus Toronto (280 miles or so). Toronto has the population & TV eyeballs to support an additional team (although some would say that would hurt Buffalo & that Buffalo is Toronto's second team).

Honestly Buffalo far more than Toronto I think is the reason a second team will find tough sledding getting in there. Toronto really won't suffer all that much with a second team but Buffalo likely gets hit hard as my understanding is they have a lot of fans and ticket holders from across the border who they could easily lose to team in say Hamilton.

 

[HisIceness]

I just don't see the incentive to give Canada an 8th franchise. Canada has a population of about 40 million, 6 teams in their most populated metros. Winnipeg is the 2nd smallest metro in NA major sports with a franchise, ahead of only Green Bay. Quebec City would be the 3rd smallest.

To put that into perspective, Birmingham has more population than QC, possibly more corporate money too (BBVA is HQed there and is a corporate sponsor of the NBA fwiw). Another small-market Canadian franchise isn't going to add to growth of the league. And after the bullshit the Nordique people threw at us with nothing to back it up, I have zero interest in seeing them get another shot, but thats just personal feelings. Has nothing to do with whether or not the league would go there again.

You could argue suburban Toronto I guess but how many people would give up their Leafs fandom, no matter how long their drought goes, for a franchise that will likely be a doormat more often than not?

I'm not trying to be anti-Canada but w/Houston having a vacancy, I mean, it's pretty much a no-brainer that's where the league would like to go. Getting there is another story. I'd argue if Austin ever came about (they've been rumored before) that would be another intriguing market to tap.

Edit: apparently BBVA was bought by PNC in October. Still though B-ham has more corporate dollars than one might think.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Oh agreed with this, that Atlanta was completely the fault of owners who actively did not want a hockey team and used the franchise to buy the Hawks. But I've heard often that the league has no desire to go back there because of the failed attempts with the Flames and Thrashers, and I just don't see it. Get an owner in Atlanta who actually wants to have a hockey franchise and wants to see it succeed, and it absolutely would work and be huge.

At that same time, agreed though, if there is a real attempt to be made in Houston, its worth the shot. And it would create a natural Houston-Dallas rivalry that the league should benefit from (don't get me started on how the league is bungling natural rivalries right now... teams like Carolina and Nashville should be in the same division, we saw last year how well it works when you insulate regional rivalries... those divisions should have stuck, or at least should have been the basis of a league wide reorg)

I couldn’t agree more.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

These are some spectacular sentences

All the credit goes to Mike Judge, il miglior fabbro.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Hot take: the Triangle region is now more like the mid-Atlantic then it is like the rest of the South, judging from the number of people from mid-Atlantic states that have moved here and still continue to move here.

Mild take: You could say the same thing about Nashville.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Rutherford is back. Good luck, Vancouver

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Rutherford is back. Good luck, Vancouver

oh yea. Vancouver is going to burn through trade assets faster than before.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Initial reactions indicate a lot of melodramatic Canuck fans. JR has made some good moves and some bad moves, like pretty much everyone else. A first-time GM could be the next Jim Benning. You just don’t know.

 

[Svechhammer]

Rutherford is back. Good luck, Vancouver

Can't wait to see how many assets they burn through chasing after that ever elusive puck moving defenseman.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

JR has won a cup with both teams he's been GM for (Whalers/Canes and Pens). Maybe Vancouver is hoping he'll go 3 for 3.

 

[chaz4hockey]

I just don't see the incentive to give Canada an 8th franchise. Canada has a population of about 40 million, 6 teams in their most populated metros. Winnipeg is the 2nd smallest metro in NA major sports with a franchise, ahead of only Green Bay. Quebec City would be the 3rd smallest.

To put that into perspective, Birmingham has more population than QC, possibly more corporate money too (BBVA is HQed there and is a corporate sponsor of the NBA fwiw). Another small-market Canadian franchise isn't going to add to growth of the league. And after the bullshit the Nordique people threw at us with nothing to back it up, I have zero interest in seeing them get another shot, but thats just personal feelings. Has nothing to do with whether or not the league would go there again.

You could argue suburban Toronto I guess but how many people would give up their Leafs fandom, no matter how long their drought goes, for a franchise that will likely be a doormat more often than not?

I'm not trying to be anti-Canada but w/Houston having a vacancy, I mean, it's pretty much a no-brainer that's where the league would like to go. Getting there is another story. I'd argue if Austin ever came about (they've been rumored before) that would be another intriguing market to tap.

Edit: apparently BBVA was bought by PNC in October. Still though B-ham has more corporate dollars than one might think.

Re: Toronto fan base. 50 years or so ago Rangers were the only game in town. When islanders were franchised, attendance at games were prinariky Ranger fans but over time (4 cups didn’t hurt) the marketplace gained a bunch of Islander fans.

imo, the same thing would happen if another team was placed in the Toronto market (realizing of course that buffalo would suffer) with local new fans gravitating to the new franchise.

 

[chaz4hockey]

Hot take: the Triangle region is now more like the mid-Atlantic then it is like the rest of the South, judging from the number of people from mid-Atlantic states that have moved here and still continue to move here.

Agreed. Triangle used to be a Ny/nj melting pot (ibm Ers we’re the first wave) but that sure has changed.

For example, my neighbors are from Minnesota, California (3) Wisconsin Maryland Washington state. All moved to the Triangle within the last 2 years.

 

[CandyCanes]

Hot take. Rutherford is a good GM when you’re in a winning position, guy makes some great trades that have turned into championships. But he’s awful for a team that’s in rebuilding mode. I think this is a terrible fit for Vancouver. But only time will tell.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

I don't think Vancouver's current core is better than the Hurricanes 05-08. And yeah they won the cup, then were a bubble team on the outside.

 

[HisIceness]

Re: Toronto fan base. 50 years or so ago Rangers were the only game in town. When islanders were franchised, attendance at games were prinariky Ranger fans but over time (4 cups didn’t hurt) the marketplace gained a bunch of Islander fans.

imo, the same thing would happen if another team was placed in the Toronto market (realizing of course that buffalo would suffer) with local new fans gravitating to the new franchise.

I get what you're saying but I think the ship has sailed on a 2nd Toronto team. There may be demand but are the owners/BoG even interested, especially again with Houston on the table? Seems unlikely. The time to do it probably would have been the 70s or 80s, or 90s. But it was unlikely even then and IMO it's unlikely now.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

It will be interesting to see how much JR tries to make Vancouver his own at the deadline and during the off-season.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Agreed. Triangle used to be a Ny/nj melting pot (ibm Ers we’re the first wave) but that sure has changed.

For example, my neighbors are from Minnesota, California (3) Wisconsin Maryland Washington state. All moved to the Triangle within the last 2 years.

FYI..the northeast still is most prevalent when you look beyond states that border NC. Here's where most people are moving from (date from 2019).

Where are North Carolina’s newest residents moving from? | Carolina Demography

NY is still in the top 5.

1) Virginia (makes sense as it's a border state)
2) Florida: Kind of surprising to me
3) South Carolina (makes sense as it's a border state)
4) NY
5) Georgia (makes sense as it's a border state).

6) California
7) Texas
8) NJ
9) PA

Places like Wisconsin and Minnesota are way down the list.

In fairness though, California, Texas, NY and Florida are the most populous states in the US so it stands to reason that they might have a higher number of people moving in and out of their states.

 

[LostInaLostWorld]

FYI..the northeast still is most prevalent when you look beyond states that border NC. Here's where most people are moving from (date from 2019).

Where are North Carolina’s newest residents moving from? | Carolina Demography

NY is still in the top 5.

1) Virginia (makes sense as it's a border state)
2) Florida: Kind of surprising to me
3) South Carolina (makes sense as it's a border state)
4) NY
5) Georgia (makes sense as it's a border state).

6) California
7) Texas
8) NJ
9) PA

Places like Wisconsin and Minnesota are way down the list.

In fairness though, California, Texas, NY and Florida are the most populous states in the US so it stands to reason that they might have a higher number of people moving in and out of their states.

Floridians have been infesting the mountains for decades.

 

[Canes]

The Canadian market isn't really saturated at all, per se. Sure, the population centers are smaller by pure numbers, but they can fill an NHL arena out in Saskatchewan, in all likelihood, let alone Quebec City, just from sheer enthusiasm of the game like in Winnipeg. Those crusty folk have hockey in their blood and soul. It's just that the NHL should want to pursue expanding the game to different places besides their home base in order to help the sport grow. Heck, there likely would be no Auston Matthews without a team in Arizona.

I'm sure Regina or Saskatoon could sell out a 15ish K stadium every night but these days it's more about the TV contracts. Adding another Canadian team especially in smaller Canadian cities doesn't really do much for that, especially in regards to the American TV contracts.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

I'm sure Regina or Saskatoon could sell out a 15ish K stadium every night but these days it's more about the TV contracts. Adding another Canadian team especially in smaller Canadian cities doesn't really do much for that, especially in regards to the American TV contracts.

It may be more viable in the NHL than other leagues, however. Hockey is beloved as a spectator sport but less so as a TV sport, except in the regional context.