Around Hockey XX (All Non-Jackets Hockey talk in here)

[Cyclones Rock]

That's bold of you. The way he's "making his case", I wouldn't speak up in support of that even if I agreed with the conclusions. Not with his "everything that doesn't support the presupposition of The Front Office Is Incompetent And Joey Should Never Have Left is automatically irrelevant because it doesn't support the presupposition" approach to debate. Citing facts in support while ignoring anything even slightly against is a classic way to appear well-reasoned when one is twisting facts to suit theories.

So says hfboards self appointed faux moral authority

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

They openly came out a d said it wasn't a heart issue. I think I actually saw that the heart thing turned out to be panic attacks and stress. But there was 0 heart issue other then metaphorically his lack of heart. I get people liking him because he was the beat C we ever had and was a big part of our most successful playoff run and was kinda a fan favorite... But he turned on the team. His agent and him caused major issues holding the team hostage and then came into the season the following year out of shape. And after being comforted with it unlike guys like Cam or Saad or Hartsy he still refused to go full speed. No team willingly trades a U23 1C who was coming off 2 great years and finally establishing himself. There has to be irreconcilable differences and that is highly unlikely to be from managements side unless stuff just goes extremely bad. You can't blame management there.

And he came out in an interview saying he needed to use that experience as a way to learn from his mistakes and mature but you can see by his comments after the ANA game and that whining you can tell he still has a lot of growing up to do. And being teamed with guys like Subban I highly doubt he will anytime soon.

There is so much wrong with this post. Thankfully, CBJWennberg did the heavy lifting so I can just shake my head.

So says hfboards self appointed faux moral authority

For someone who purports to be a fans of the Columbus team, you do seem awfully happy that the team hasn't matched whatever level of success. Even if you place all the blame for Johansen's trade (and the mess that led up to it) on management, I'd think you'd still be happy when the Columbus team does well and disappointed when it doesn't.

 

[JacketsDavid]

They openly came out a d said it wasn't a heart issue. I think I actually saw that the heart thing turned out to be panic attacks and stress. But there was 0 heart issue other then metaphorically his lack of heart. I get people liking him because he was the beat C we ever had and was a big part of our most successful playoff run and was kinda a fan favorite... But he turned on the team. His agent and him caused major issues holding the team hostage and then came into the season the following year out of shape. And after being comforted with it unlike guys like Cam or Saad or Hartsy he still refused to go full speed. No team willingly trades a U23 1C who was coming off 2 great years and finally establishing himself. There has to be irreconcilable differences and that is highly unlikely to be from managements side unless stuff just goes extremely bad. You can't blame management there.

And he came out in an interview saying he needed to use that experience as a way to learn from his mistakes and mature but you can see by his comments after the ANA game and that whining you can tell he still has a lot of growing up to do. And being teamed with guys like Subban I highly doubt he will anytime soon.

Thanks CBJWenn for addressing this.
Ry Jo has his ups and down. But you know what he's still playing in Mid-May. So if he's gutless that's fine. Just waiting on your analysis of our players (especially our best player visiting a shrink). I'm sure your diagnosis will be spot on there too.
And his salary negotiation/deal was a 2 way street - plenty of blame both ways between player and his side and management. How you could objectively say it was 100% on the player is baffling to me. So yes I blame management as much as the player on that deal.

 

[DarkandStormy]

The wording on the bolder should have been "used by the front office to run him out of town". Typing one fingered on iPad is my excuse

27 points in 32 career playoff games speaks for itself. Yeah, Bob was abominable. The narrative on this board which likes to believe that the Jackets really outplayed the Pens doesn't hold water with me. The perimeter offense of the CBJ generated a lot of low percentage shots. I believe the Pens held a significant scoring chances advantage in the series, but I'm not going to verify that right now.

When the CBJ are playing in game 3 of a conference final, it'll be time to revisit the trade.

I think I have time for a snickers bar on that one.

Fair enough. Fwiw, Pens dominated "quality" chances or "high danger chances" in our series. Looking simply at shot totals is a lazy exercise. Pens had better forwards and got more chances in close on Bob. So I agree there. But again, simply flipping Jones for Johansen wouldn't have fixed all that.

 

[Viqsi]

So says hfboards self appointed faux moral authority

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem

 

[DarkandStormy]

And his salary negotiation/deal was a 2 way street - plenty of blame both ways between player and his side and management. How you could objectively say it was 100% on the player is baffling to me. So yes I blame management as much as the player on that deal.

When you walk into the negotiations using Patrick Kane and Jonathan Toews as your comps....


Let's also not forget the story from October '15 when fHCTR was here and was calling for a quick line change. Joey proceeded to slow play it to the bench in defiance, fake pumping his arms. This was all reported by Jody Shelley, who was in between the benches. Add this to the contract negotiations, AHL benching, and now him whining about Kesler...I don't miss the 'tude here in Cbus. Good for him, but always came across as up on his high horse to me.

 

[mikeyp24]

Thanks CBJWenn for addressing this.
Ry Jo has his ups and down. But you know what he's still playing in Mid-May. So if he's gutless that's fine. Just waiting on your analysis of our players (especially our best player visiting a shrink). I'm sure your diagnosis will be spot on there too.
And his salary negotiation/deal was a 2 way street - plenty of blame both ways between player and his side and management. How you could objectively say it was 100% on the player is baffling to me. So yes I blame management as much as the player on that deal.

What does a shrink have to do with anything? That means tour trying to seek help for something. Athletes need that type of help because if stress and the pressure they put in themselves. Nothing gutless about that that's actually brave as ****.

And gutless players play late in the playoffs every year. Crosby is here often. Lucic, Marchand, Subban, etc. Doesn't mean you have to like or respect them.

And as far as the contract goes the Storm has went over that... using Toews as a benchmark basically ruined any reasonable discussion.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

When you walk into the negotiations using Patrick Kane and Jonathan Toews as your comps....


Let's also not forget the story from October '15 when fHCTR was here and was calling for a quick line change. Joey proceeded to slow play it to the bench in defiance, fake pumping his arms. This was all reported by Jody Shelley, who was in between the benches. Add this to the contract negotiations, AHL benching, and now him whining about Kesler...I don't miss the 'tude here in Cbus. Good for him, but always came across as up on his high horse to me.

His camp wanted 2 years at 9.4 million (4.7 per). Which is not what Toews and Kane got out of ELC because they got long term deals (5 years 6.3 for Toews, 5 years 6.5 for Kane.) It was an insane ask, as I mentioned it started the divide, but at least be accurate.

Don't even remember the Shelley report, but keep in mind he is also under contract with the organization, who at the time was not fond of Johansen. AHL benching doesn't matter, and he's not whining for gods sake.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

woah, i see you Ottawa

 

[EdwardG]

Haven't been paying much attention to the series, but why can't the Pens score on Ottawa? Strange.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Haven't been paying much attention to the series, but why can't the Pens score on Ottawa? Strange.

Sens are playing new era devils style trap.

 

[EspenK]

Playoff Fleury finally shows up big time.

 

[SuperGenius]

Playoff Fleury finally shows up big time.

Really tough to put that one on Fleury. The Penguins were black and gold pylons.

 

[Dr. Fire]

Luke Richardson hired by Islanders as an assistant coach. Gratz to him. Loved him as a Jacket back in the day.

 

[Nanabijou]

Sens are playing new era devils style trap.

That first period of hockey by the Sens last night was definitely not trap-style hockey. They were relentless and aggressive in their forecheck. That's what won them the game.

 

[Arch City Zach]

I think I'll take a Preds v Sens final, with Marc Methot getting a GWG in game 7 OT. That would be my ideal.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Pens look tired. So many injuries have taken their toll. I think it's ottawas to lose at this point.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

The heart shown by PK Subban, Johansen, and the Preds to tie that game is unreal.

 

[The Jones Zone]

The heart shown by PK Subban, Johansen, and the Preds to tie that game is unreal.

what about the Ducks to come through in OT, after the deflating tying goal with 35 seconds left, on the road none the less.

Now that was heart, perseverance, when the home team had all the momentum

 

[CBJWerenski8]

what about the Ducks to come through in OT, after the deflating tying goal with 35 seconds left, on the road none the less.

Now that was heart, perseverance, when the home team had all the momentum

agreed. great game

 

[Samkow]

I don't quite get the logic of benching Fleury when he's been the only thing keeping the Pens afloat this series.

 

[DarkandStormy]

I don't quite get the logic of benching Fleury when he's been the only thing keeping the Pens afloat this series.

Because if Murray is healthy, he's a better goalie?

 

[Samkow]

Because if Murray is healthy, he's a better goalie?

1.80 GAA and .95 Save Percentage good?

 

[The Jones Zone]

Johansen is done for season, thigh surgery or something

Next step, the 12 year, 15 million per season contract

 

[EdwardG]

I enjoyed this Johansen comment on Kesler: "It just doesn't make sense how he plays the game. I'm just trying to go out there and play hockey, and it sucks when you've got to pull a stick out of your groin every shift. He doesn't do anything that makes sense. He thinks he's getting under guys' skin, but I don't know what he's doing."