Speculation: Armchair GM 2023-24 Season. If we can't say "Rebuild" what do we call it?

[Lunatik]

Any Dach/Newhook/Sharnogovich style reclamation projects you guys wouldn't mind the Flames looking at this offseason?

I saw Frost mentioned as he and Torts seem to butt heads, but I'm not sure he's truly available.

I'm not necessarily interested in these guys, but here is some names I threw together that might be available.

Forwards
Cole Sillinger (CBJ)
Peyton Krebs (BUF)
Ryan Suzuki (CAR)
Arthur Kaliyev (LAK)
Jesperi Kotkaniemi (CAR)
Ty Dellandrea (DAL)
Oliver Wahlstrom (NYI)
Vitali Kravstov (VAN)
Grigori Denisenko (VGK)
Akil Thomas (LAK)
Cody Glass (NAS)
Lias Andersson (MTL)
Kristian Vesalainen (WPG)
Kole Lind (SEA)
Shane Wright (SEA)
Patrik Laine (CBJ)
Alex Nylander (CBJ)
Matthew Phillips (WSH)

Defensemen
Philip Broberg (EDM)
Tobias Bjornfot (FLA)
Ty Smith (CAR)
Conor Timmins (TOR)
Logan Stanley (WPG)

Goalies
Spencer Knight (FLA)

 

[Volica]

Any Dach/Newhook/Sharnogovich style reclamation projects you guys wouldn't mind the Flames looking at this offseason?

I saw Frost mentioned as he and Torts seem to butt heads, but I'm not sure he's truly available.

Wahlstrom is a guy Calgary would probably like just based on size, but it's hard to decipher what this organization actually likes. I don't think there's a single poster here who could of predicted us picking up half a dozen Russians over the year. What almost comes across as us targeting them.

I wouldn't be overly surprised if Calgary spent some picks at the draft on some 20-25 year old guys they like.

 

[Bounces R Way]

Any Dach/Newhook/Sharnogovich style reclamation projects you guys wouldn't mind the Flames looking at this offseason?

I saw Frost mentioned as he and Torts seem to butt heads, but I'm not sure he's truly available.

I think Barrett Hayton could shake loose out of Arizona. 23 years old, needs a new contract, underperformed at the NHL level so far but has some decent underlying numbers. Did have a 43pt year last season but only 10pts in 33 games this season. Good skater and defensively responsible young center with upside.

Could be a worthwhile buy low option if the Vegas or Dallas pick is enough to get it done.

 

[Lunatik]

I wouldn't be overly surprised if Calgary spent some picks at the draft on some 20-25 year old guys they like.

I wouldn't either, but if we add forwards, we also need to subtract them, as we arguably have too many as is.

Personally I'd go hard after Sillinger, I feel like Columbus is going to try and make some noise this summer. I suspect they will go hard after Lindholm, but they need to add more offensive depth too... currently 7 of their 17 forwards on the big club are on ELCs and Gaudreau is the only play to have broke 40 points. I think they could be very interested in Sharangovich, Kuzmenko or Mangiapane.

 

[Yepthatsme]

Don’t look now, but ever since the trade deadline Calgary has a top 10 powerplay in the league. The addition of Kuzmenko and to a much lesser extent Miro has really added some elements we were desperately missing throughout the season. It was honestly our biggest problem those season, if we can add a centre this offseason the forward core and scoring rates could be much higher next year.

Starting to like where this quick retool is leading. Still think the team needs to chase on of the high end free agent defenseman (Skjei or Montour would be huge), and a temporary middle 6C is a neccesity, but the identity is starting to come.

Zary-Kadri-Kuzmenko
Hubs-Stephenson/Monahan-Rango
Coleman-Backlund-Coronato
Pelletier-Rooney-Pospisil

Skjei-Andersson
Kylington-Weegar
Pachal/x-Miromanov

Markstrom
Wolf

We get the current version’s of Huberdeau, Kadri, and Kuzmenko as well as development from our young guys and that forward core is vastly improved from the start of last year, defense is a bit worse, and goaltending should continue to be a strength.

Youth movement is looking good too with all of the following developing or coming up th system

Pelletier-Catton/Lindstrom*-Coronato
Honzek-Zary-Van 1st

Poirier-Brzustewicz
Morin

Wolf

 

[User1996]

A 4-12 record despite a top 10 PP seems to suggest we aren’t a middle 6 C and 3D away from anything…

 

[super6646]

A 4-12 record despite a top 10 PP seems to suggest we aren’t a middle 6 C and 3D away from anything…

Let him believe what he wants to believe. He's dead wrong IMO, but its good to have some contrarians around here.

Most fans who are critical about the team know we aren't a quick retool away from anything anyways.

 

[Fig]

Let him believe what he wants to believe. He's dead wrong IMO, but its good to have some contrarians around here.

Most fans who are critical about the team know we aren't a quick retool away from anything anyways.

I kinda viewed it as if it was a proof of a certain question from two seasons ago. The question was whether after Gaudreau and Tkachuk left, were we missing dynamic forwards? or was there another issue out there?

I think one way to interpret that is that while we want players to be defensively responsible or passable, to brute force that into all players or acquire all 200 ft players isn't necessarily the best approach. You get some offensive specialists and you insulate them with defensively responsible line mates. Similar to an offensive D and a defensive D pairing concept. IMO this concept is what broke Huberdeau... but perhaps I'm way off if we're seeing Gaudreau struggling as well.

I also viewed it that being excited for the retool direction and increased scoring rates wasn't a comment that the retool would quickly be over. It's that it would be a palatable transition. The final contender style game would likely be a tightened up version of the retool identity. That's what the crux of that post was IMO. We've had the most convoluted identity for a while. What I'm seeing right now feels a little like the post Jack Adams Hartley crew mixed with some stuff from the Gully and Peters era. It's not a team that defers to their top line like the Ward/Sutter era. It's a group that feels like they're attempting to work via committee again.

TBH, I'm getting 2016-2018 Flames vibes from this group. Like Conroy tried to go with what he knew and rewinded the team half a decade and tried to take a different path towards reaching the same blueprint. I honestly think we have another season or two of some significant roster turnover. It'll be interesting to see what the result is in 2-3 seasons. But I also bet we'd use hindsight and be like, "No one could have imagined this is where we'd end up."

 

[Iggys Dome]

Don’t look now, but ever since the trade deadline Calgary has a top 10 powerplay in the league. The addition of Kuzmenko and to a much lesser extent Miro has really added some elements we were desperately missing throughout the season. It was honestly our biggest problem those season, if we can add a centre this offseason the forward core and scoring rates could be much higher next year.

Starting to like where this quick retool is leading. Still think the team needs to chase on of the high end free agent defenseman (Skjei or Montour would be huge), and a temporary middle 6C is a neccesity, but the identity is starting to come.

Zary-Kadri-Kuzmenko
Hubs-Stephenson/Monahan-Rango
Coleman-Backlund-Coronato
Pelletier-Rooney-Pospisil

Skjei-Andersson
Kylington-Weegar
Pachal/x-Miromanov

Markstrom
Wolf

We get the current version’s of Huberdeau, Kadri, and Kuzmenko as well as development from our young guys and that forward core is vastly improved from the start of last year, defense is a bit worse, and goaltending should continue to be a strength.

Youth movement is looking good too with all of the following developing or coming up th system

Pelletier-Catton/Lindstrom*-Coronato
Honzek-Zary-Van 1st

Poirier-Brzustewicz
Morin

Wolf

This is a great way to finish 18th next year.

 

[Backlund]

Don’t look now, but ever since the trade deadline Calgary has a top 10 powerplay in the league. The addition of Kuzmenko and to a much lesser extent Miro has really added some elements we were desperately missing throughout the season. It was honestly our biggest problem those season, if we can add a centre this offseason the forward core and scoring rates could be much higher next year.

Starting to like where this quick retool is leading. Still think the team needs to chase on of the high end free agent defenseman (Skjei or Montour would be huge), and a temporary middle 6C is a neccesity, but the identity is starting to come.

Zary-Kadri-Kuzmenko
Hubs-Stephenson/Monahan-Rango
Coleman-Backlund-Coronato
Pelletier-Rooney-Pospisil

Skjei-Andersson
Kylington-Weegar
Pachal/x-Miromanov

Markstrom
Wolf

We get the current version’s of Huberdeau, Kadri, and Kuzmenko as well as development from our young guys and that forward core is vastly improved from the start of last year, defense is a bit worse, and goaltending should continue to be a strength.

Youth movement is looking good too with all of the following developing or coming up th system

Pelletier-Catton/Lindstrom*-Coronato
Honzek-Zary-Van 1st

Poirier-Brzustewicz
Morin

Wolf

That team is pathetic

 

[Fig]

This is a great way to finish 18th next year.

Not if we continue to sell at the TDL. That was my understanding.

 

[User1996]

Not if we continue to sell at the TDL. That was my understanding.

Who would be sold? Mangiapane already isn’t on that roster. Kuzmenko would seem to be a key piece of that roster. Sharangovich I guess, but that’s not a massive sell off at all.

 

[FLAMESFAN]

Not if we continue to sell at the TDL. That was my understanding.

That would be even worse as we'd likely finish 10-15th

 

[Yepthatsme]

A 4-12 record despite a top 10 PP seems to suggest we aren’t a middle 6 C and 3D away from anything…

Over that stretch, Backlund has 6 points and is -12, Coleman has 5 points and is -8, Andersson 4 points and a -13, Mangiapane has seemingly called it a year as , not to mention an .865 from Markstrom. The majority of the veterans are mentally golfing currently, will be for the remainder of the season, but will come back driven next year. As of now, this isn’t a bottom 10 team still going into next season once our key players start caring again, and not a playoff team either which is the worst spot to be. Conroy already discussed his desire to add some vets in free agency, which assuredly is talking about stabilizing the bottom of our D core as well. We only have minor pieces to sell off as UFAs that won’t massively affect our seasons trajectory, and management likely won’t approve selling off major players. So what’s your plan to ensure we don’t just potentially hand over 11-14th overall to Montreal?

 

[Volica]

We are still a ways away. Let's not sugarcoat it.

There's still no top line centre.
There's only players being paid like elite wingers, but who aren't.
We only have like two top 4D, and Razzy's pretty much checked out it seems.

 

[User1996]

Over that stretch, Backlund has 6 points and is -12, Coleman has 5 points and is -8, Andersson 4 points and a -13, Mangiapane has seemingly called it a year as , not to mention an .865 from Markstrom. The majority of the veterans are mentally golfing currently, will be for the remainder of the season, but will come back driven next year. As of now, this isn’t a bottom 10 team still going into next season once our key players start caring again, and not a playoff team either which is the worst spot to be. Conroy already discussed his desire to add some vets in free agency, which assuredly is talking about stabilizing the bottom of our D core as well. We only have minor pieces to sell off as UFAs that won’t massively affect our seasons trajectory, and management likely won’t approve selling off major players. So what’s your plan to ensure we don’t just potentially hand over 11-14th overall to Montreal?

Rumour has it, ownership wants to be competitive for a 2027 arena opening. How does having a minimum $51 million tied up in 8 33+ year old players help that? Huberdeau (33), Kadri (36), Stephenson (33), Weegar (33), Skjei(33), Markstrom (37), Coleman (35), and Backlund (38) eat up a large percentage of the cap, and will likely be on the descent of their careers.

Not to mention that roster is almost certainly a blue print on how to hand over 11-14 to MTL. Is it better than Vancouver, Vegas, Edmonton? Absolutely not. Better than the Kings? Probably not. So what’s left? Fighting for that 2nd wildcard against a Central team.

 

[Mobiandi]

I must have missed when building the new San Jose Sharks was the next step of the rebuild

 

[Yepthatsme]

Rumour has it, ownership wants to be competitive for a 2027 arena opening. How does having a minimum $51 million tied up in 8 33+ year old players help that? Huberdeau (33), Kadri (36), Stephenson (33), Weegar (33), Skjei(33), Markstrom (37), Coleman (35), and Backlund (38) eat up a large percentage of the cap, and will likely be on the descent of their careers.

Not to mention that roster is almost certainly a blue print on how to hand over 11-14 to MTL. Is it better than Vancouver, Vegas, Edmonton? Absolutely not. Better than the Kings? Probably not. So what’s left? Fighting for that 2nd wildcard against a Central team.

Nobody expects to be a contender as of next season, but yes that team looks like it can snatch a playoff spot. We still have an immense amount of cap space the following season and plenty of prospects to keep improving too. I dont think people here truly appreciate how much our powerplay was our Achilles heel this season. The difference between our percentage over the whole season and the powerplay this last month is roughly 24 additional goals over the season.

You dodged the question though. What would you do to ensure we are bottom 10, because as you named teams we certainly aren’t worse than San Jose, Chicago, Columbus, Arizona, Anaheim, and Montreal. I wouldn’t bet on Ottawa or Buffalo, Washington and Seattle could take another huge step back, and Philadelphia would shock nobody if that roster regressed to be much worse. How are you ensuring we don’t hand over a fantastic pick, and regress hard enough to guarantee it so it’s not a close call, knowing that you can’t trade key players who would still be key contributors in a couple seasons or that would signal an outright tank?

 

[Backlund]

Montreal is only getting our pick if Florida fails miserably next season. Why would you try to be a playoff bubble team? That cap space should be used for acquiring bad contracts for picks, not patching holes with duct tape.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

Montreal is only getting our pick if Florida fails miserably next season. Why would you try to be a playoff bubble team? That cap space should be used for acquiring bad contracts for picks, not patching holes with duct tape.

That's not entirely accurate. They get our pick if it isn't top 10.

"Scenario: In the event CGY receives FLA’s 2025 1st round pick:
1. If both CGY AND FLA’s picks are NOT top 10, MTL will receive the better of the CGY and FLA 2025 1st round picks. Result: TBD

2. If CGY’s pick is top 10, AND FLA’s pick is NOT top 10, MTL receives FLA’s pick. Result: TBD
"

 

[Backlund]

That's not entirely accurate. They get our pick if it isn't top 10.

"Scenario: In the event CGY receives FLA’s 2025 1st round pick:
1. If both CGY AND FLA’s picks are NOT top 10, MTL will receive the better of the CGY and FLA 2025 1st round picks. Result: TBD

2. If CGY’s pick is top 10, AND FLA’s pick is NOT top 10, MTL receives FLA’s pick. Result: TBD
"

It's most likely unless someone does something stupid. Florida will still be good next season and we should have a top 10 pick next season unless management makes the stupid decision of trying to be a bubble team. Being a bubble team just gives them the better pick and leaves us with Florida's.

 

[User1996]

Nobody expects to be a contender as of next season, but yes that team looks like it can snatch a playoff spot. We still have an immense amount of cap space the following season and plenty of prospects to keep improving too. I dont think people here truly appreciate how much our powerplay was our Achilles heel this season. The difference between our percentage over the whole season and the powerplay this last month is roughly 24 additional goals over the season.

You dodged the question though. What would you do to ensure we are bottom 10, because as you named teams we certainly aren’t worse than San Jose, Chicago, Columbus, Arizona, Anaheim, and Montreal. I wouldn’t bet on Ottawa or Buffalo, Washington and Seattle could take another huge step back, and Philadelphia would shock nobody if that roster regressed to be much worse. How are you ensuring we don’t hand over a fantastic pick, and regress hard enough to guarantee it so it’s not a close call, knowing that you can’t trade key players who would still be key contributors in a couple seasons or that would signal an outright tank?

Truthfully, I don’t think you need to do much at all. The Flames have legitimately been a bottom 5 team already without Tanev and Hanifin.

Hugely, I’d say the writing is on the wall for Markstrom here - he seems mighty unhappy, and at this point I feel like he’s quite likely gone. Regardless, you’re not getting a .915 from him behind a defence that is absent of Tanev and Hanifin if he is back. I’d also bake in some regression for Coleman, Weegar, and maybe even Sharangovich (young enough, and in a good enough situation to maybe repeat) who are all arguably 3 of the biggest reasons we had a hope at snagging a WC this year anyways.

What I would try to do is convince Edwards that I’d save him $15 million by not spending to the cap, but that it would come at the expense of losing playoff revenue. Trade Markstrom, likely Mangiapane, and use some available space to take on poor contracts for assets. Not the real albatross deals, but ones that are manageable in our time frame - Jeannot, Reaves, etc. Like every year, there are probably some vet UFA’s that will sign 1 year deals and be flipped at the deadline, too.

Like, this is 100% a bottom 10 team, and I barely even put any effort into making it:

Huberdeau - Zary - Sharangovich
Pospisil - Kadri - Kuzmenko
Coleman - Backlund - Coronato
Pelletier - Rooney - Hunt
Reaves, Greer

Miromanov - Weegar
Kylington - Andersson
Dillon - Pachal
Okhotiuk

Vladar
Wolf

 

[Fig]

Who would be sold? Mangiapane already isn’t on that roster. Kuzmenko would seem to be a key piece of that roster. Sharangovich I guess, but that’s not a massive sell off at all.

Markstrom revisit maybe with an acquisition for someone to platoon with Wolf?

Whatever isn't stapled down I guess. Even Backlund might be worth discussing. Who knows.

That would be even worse as we'd likely finish 10-15th

Isn't drafting higher for a few years part of the goal?

 

[Yepthatsme]

Truthfully, I don’t think you need to do much at all. The Flames have legitimately been a bottom 5 team already without Tanev and Hanifin.

Hugely, I’d say the writing is on the wall for Markstrom here - he seems mighty unhappy, and at this point I feel like he’s quite likely gone. Regardless, you’re not getting a .915 from him behind a defence that is absent of Tanev and Hanifin if he is back. I’d also bake in some regression for Coleman, Weegar, and maybe even Sharangovich (young enough, and in a good enough situation to maybe repeat) who are all arguably 3 of the biggest reasons we had a hope at snagging a WC this year anyways.

What I would try to do is convince Edwards that I’d save him $15 million by not spending to the cap, but that it would come at the expense of losing playoff revenue. Trade Markstrom, likely Mangiapane, and use some available space to take on poor contracts for assets. Not the real albatross deals, but ones that are manageable in our time frame - Jeannot, Reaves, etc. Like every year, there are probably some vet UFA’s that will sign 1 year deals and be flipped at the deadline, too.

Like, this is 100% a bottom 10 team, and I barely even put any effort into making it:

Huberdeau - Zary - Sharangovich
Pospisil - Kadri - Kuzmenko
Coleman - Backlund - Coronato
Pelletier - Rooney - Hunt
Reaves, Greer

Miromanov - Weegar
Kylington - Andersson
Dillon - Pachal
Okhotiuk

Vladar
Wolf

I don’t think people appreciate just how bad the bottom 10 teams in the NHL are currently. We had to absolutely pillage our defense, and then all of Backlund, Coleman, Mangiapane, Andersson, and Weegar stopped trying once we rug pulled the year from them, not to mention Zary’s production falling off a cliff for us to start sliding. All of that culminated into a 4-12 stretch, which was good enough to bring us from 21st to 25th in points percentage.

This is Arizona’s roster, only the 6th worst team.

Keller-Kerfoot-Scmaltz
Crouse-Cooley-Guenther
Maccelli-McBain-Doan
O’Brien-Jenik-Carcone

Moser-Durzi
Valimaki-Kesselring
Szuber-Brown

The sheer amount of trades we’d have to make to get to that level of centre or D depth is brutal, and that’s the level you’d want to be to not have to worry if we accidentally slip to only 11th worst. Especially, and as I said before I’m just repeating Conroy, we add some veteran depth to this roster, this team as currently built doesn’t finish bottom 10 again, they barely did it this year after mailing in the first month and last month and a half of the season. Especially when they aren’t going out with the express purpose to get worse.

 

[User1996]

I don’t think people appreciate just how bad the bottom 10 teams in the NHL are currently. We had to absolutely pillage our defense, and then all of Backlund, Coleman, Mangiapane, Andersson, and Weegar stopped trying once we rug pulled the year from them, not to mention Zary’s production falling off a cliff for us to start sliding. All of that culminated into a 4-12 stretch, which was good enough to bring us from 21st to 25th in points percentage.

This is Arizona’s roster, only the 6th worst team.

Keller-Kerfoot-Scmaltz
Crouse-Cooley-Guenther
Maccelli-McBain-Doan
O’Brien-Jenik-Carcone

Moser-Durzi
Valimaki-Kesselring
Szuber-Brown

The sheer amount of trades we’d have to make to get to that level of centre or D depth is brutal, and that’s the level you’d want to be to not have to worry if we accidentally slip to only 11th worst. Especially, and as I said before I’m just repeating Conroy, we add some veteran depth to this roster, this team as currently built doesn’t finish bottom 10 again, they barely did it this year after mailing in the first month and last month and a half of the season. Especially when they aren’t going out with the express purpose to get worse.

Assuming those are the main causes, as you say, we were 21st (aka 1 spot out of top 10) - that’s with Backlund, Coleman, Mangiapane, Weegar, Andersson trying, and an the entirety of our best pair intact. Like, we never really were that far off, even at our best.

Regardless, I do think it’s lazy analysis to say “none of these veterans are trying anymore”. Like, Weegar has been a bright spot lately, Mangiapane has had a horrible year - not just the last 16 games. Andersson noticeably started to struggle once he no longer had a Tanev and Hanifin pairing to take matchups.

I just truly think you’re underestimating the impact that Tanev and Hanifin had on the overall makeup of the team. It’s really a common misconception on here - especially with Hanifin.