Speculation: Armchair GM 2023-24 Season. If we can't say "Rebuild" what do we call it?

[Ace Rimmer]

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Speculation: - Armchair GM 2023 Off-Season Edition: The Summer Without Brad

Continued from the previous thread, here: https://forums.hfboards.com/threads/armchair-gm-2022-off-season-edition-the-summer-of-brad.2886475/ Context: https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/calgary-flames-general-manager-brad-treliving-agree-to-part-ways-1.1947073

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So Hanifin extension, eh? Wonder if they announce him and Lindholm with extensions at the same time, maybe at the Heritage Classic?

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[Fig]

Last thread went past it's best by date.

You can revisit it here:

Speculation: - Armchair GM 2023 Off-Season Edition: The Summer Without Brad

Continued from the previous thread, here: https://forums.hfboards.com/threads/armchair-gm-2022-off-season-edition-the-summer-of-brad.2886475/ Context: https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/calgary-flames-general-manager-brad-treliving-agree-to-part-ways-1.1947073

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So Hanifin extension, eh? Wonder if they announce him and Lindholm with extensions at the same time, maybe at the Heritage Classic?

Would dual 8x8 look like good deals by year 2 of those contracts?

I'm also curious long term about the Russian factor (Keep Z and ask him to bring more Russians here) and whether we'll suddenly realize that more than half of all roster players will be with young kids soon.

 

[deleted user]

I would seriously give it till 20 games in. If by then we're still having issues...

That'll be around game #100 since Johnny and Tkachuk left, right?

Yeah. At that time I'd hit the nuclear option. I'm hoping they get going.

 

[Iggys Dome]

At least Edmonton sucks

 

[Bounces R Way]

At least Edmonton sucks

 

[DomBarr]

On the plus side of that "sell Monahan at all costs because we just signed Kadri and are now significantly over the cap and have absolutely no leverage" trade is that it has tied up all 4 of our 1st round picks for the next 3 years eliminating Conroy's ability to trade a 1st to try and fix this crappy team

 

[DomBarr]

Would dual 8x8 look like good deals by year 2 of those contracts?

I'm also curious long term about the Russian factor (Keep Z and ask him to bring more Russians here) and whether we'll suddenly realize that more than half of all roster players will be with young kids soon.

8x8 for Hanifin will never look good to a Flames fan unless its a different team signing him to it.
8x8 for Lindholm will look ok for the first couple of year until we realize its now been 4 years since he scored 40 and was in line for the Selke.

 

[herashak]

Best case is that this team might be able to do a “soft landing”, I.e pick top 3 this year, trade Zad/Lindholm and then maybe one more top pick next year and then turn it around. Can’t believe the leafs picked up Treliving after he put us in this mess

 

[Fig]

8x8 for Hanifin will never look good to a Flames fan unless its a different team signing him to it.
8x8 for Lindholm will look ok for the first couple of year until we realize its now been 4 years since he scored 40 and was in line for the Selke.

The cap is expected to spike in 2-3 years. An 8x8 might look closer to a 7x8 or 6x8 when that happens.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

Would dual 8x8 look like good deals by year 2 of those contracts?

Probably not, but this team is in purgatory until 2030 anyways.

 

[RasmusAndersson]

I pray for once management realizes we aren't a contender and sells our current assets for futures.

If we are outside a playoff spot come January, there is no reason we shouldn't move Lindholm, Hanifin, maybe Backlund (if he wants a chance at a cup), Tanev, maybe Zad. We should have 4-5 firsts this draft.

We have a decent group of forward prospects, a stud young G prospect, and a decent D core. We just need like 10 darts to throw at a dartboard in search of that #1C/#1D.

 

[joescores]

I pray for once management realizes we aren't a contender and sells our current assets for futures.

If we are outside a playoff spot come January, there is no reason we shouldn't move Lindholm, Hanifin, maybe Backlund (if he wants a chance at a cup), Tanev, maybe Zad. We should have 4-5 firsts this draft.

We have a decent group of forward prospects, a stud young G prospect, and a decent D core. We just need like 10 darts to throw at a dartboard in search of that #1C/#1D.

What will their price be in Jan if they are keep playing like shit? I suggest we move them now.

 

[super6646]

I pray for once management realizes we aren't a contender and sells our current assets for futures.

If we are outside a playoff spot come January, there is no reason we shouldn't move Lindholm, Hanifin, maybe Backlund (if he wants a chance at a cup), Tanev, maybe Zad. We should have 4-5 firsts this draft.

We have a decent group of forward prospects, a stud young G prospect, and a decent D core. We just need like 10 darts to throw at a dartboard in search of that #1C/#1D.

I'd trade Hanifin for Dumba + 3rd... because ya know, we don't want picks beyond 2024.

 

[DomBarr]

I pray for once management realizes we aren't a contender and sells our current assets for futures.

If we are outside a playoff spot come January, there is no reason we shouldn't move Lindholm, Hanifin, maybe Backlund (if he wants a chance at a cup), Tanev, maybe Zad. We should have 4-5 firsts this draft.

We have a decent group of forward prospects, a stud young G prospect, and a decent D core. We just need like 10 darts to throw at a dartboard in search of that #1C/#1D.

and if we did that maybe we could convince Montreal to trade our conditional 1st back for a different 2024 1st.
Or if we get some extra 2nds or 3rds we can throw one at them to take this years if for some bizarre reason it is in the 20 to 32 range.

 

[Mobiandi]

Probably not, but this team is in purgatory until 2030 anyways.

But Cale Makar comes in 2027

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

I think there is a path to a 3-4 year rebuild.

Hanifin 7.5 x 8. You trade Hanifin you’re going to need a top 5 pick to replace him. You’re not gettting an elite player in return. You’re getting a Horvat like return. Sign the guy and build around him, Rasmus and Wolf. We can’t completely throw Wolf to the… Wolves.

Trade Lindholm for a late first and top prospect (ideally a fwd). Stankoven comes to mind. Maybe Danielson if Detroit is ready to go for the cup.

Trade Weegar and take on a couple of Ottawa’s/Buffalo/Dallas short term cap dumps for legit C prospect. (Kulich or Pinto or Stankoven) he’s still a great player and should be of interest to a contending team.

Trade Z and Tanev for late firsts prior to the deadline. D are in high demand and those guys will be big pluses to contenders. Firsts this year should be quite expendable. I don’t love this draft after the top 12 or so but it never hurts to give button some ammo.

This year: Pick top 5 this year. Hopefully the new arena gets us a Bettman special in the form of Celebrini or Eiserman. Catton, Levshunov or Demidov would be huge pieces to get too. This team will be bad if we trade Z, Tanev and Lindholm. Really bad.
Next year: We might lose a top ten pick the next year but that scenario only happens if Florida and us pick top 10. So we get a top ten pick unless both teams are good. I think.
26 and 27 drafts: likely still taking our lumps but we can add a few more pieces in the draft.

By the time we need to pay all our young talent Huberdeau and Kadri will be expired. Hopefully they figure it out eventually. Until then we are stuck with them.

 

[Lunatik]

I wouldn't trade Weegar.

I'm fine moving on from Lindholm, Tanev and Zadorov, but having 3 very good defensemen is a better way to insulate Wolf. We've seen what terrible defense has done to goalies in Edmonton and Buffalo.

 

[DFF]

I think there is a path to a 3-4 year rebuild.

Hanifin 7.5 x 8. You trade Hanifin you’re going to need a top 5 pick to replace him. You’re not gettting an elite player in return. You’re getting a Horvat like return. Sign the guy and build around him, Rasmus and Wolf. We can’t completely throw Wolf to the… Wolves.

Trade Lindholm for a late first and top prospect (ideally a fwd). Stankoven comes to mind. Maybe Danielson if Detroit is ready to go for the cup.

Trade Weegar and take on a couple of Ottawa’s/Buffalo/Dallas short term cap dumps for legit C prospect. (Kulich or Pinto or Stankoven) he’s still a great player and should be of interest to a contending team.

Trade Z and Tanev for late firsts prior to the deadline. D are in high demand and those guys will be big pluses to contenders. Firsts this year should be quite expendable. I don’t love this draft after the top 12 or so but it never hurts to give button some ammo.

This year: Pick top 5 this year. Hopefully the new arena gets us a Bettman special in the form of Celebrini or Eiserman. Catton, Levshunov or Demidov would be huge pieces to get too. This team will be bad if we trade Z, Tanev and Lindholm. Really bad.
Next year: We might lose a top ten pick the next year but that scenario only happens if Florida and us pick top 10. So we get a top ten pick unless both teams are good. I think.
26 and 27 drafts: likely still taking our lumps but we can add a few more pieces in the draft.

By the time we need to pay all our young talent Huberdeau and Kadri will be expired. Hopefully they figure it out eventually. Until then we are stuck with them.

There is no way anyone should be building around Hanifin.

Nobody wants to pay anything significant for him all summer. Just like no one really wanted to give Kadri the bloated retirement contract that he wanted.

That should be enough hint to double check your love for him.

Not saying he is not a capable NHL dman but nothing to say this is a winner I should build around.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

There is no way anyone should be building around Hanifin.

Nobody wants to pay anything significant for him all summer. Just like no one really wanted to give Kadri the bloated retirement contract that he wanted.

That should be enough hint to double check your love for him.

Not saying he is not a capable NHL dman but nothing to say this is a winner I should build around.

7.5 won’t be a burden. It’ll be very affordable in a few years. Skating defencemen have long careers. If you trade Hanifin the return will be meh assets that are likely no better than our Pelletier and Zary type players. The guy is a really good player and much like Brodie, Hamilton and JBO for some reason people only point out his flaws and never his strengths, which are numerous. The charred earth strategy rarely works or takes 10 years. You need some vets to show kids what being a pro is and Hanifin, Andersson and Wolf should be that group. With Pelletier, Poirier, Morin, Coronato, Zary, Ruzi, Honzek, etc. we have the makings of a decent middle of the roster. With a few elite offensive pieces and another D in the draft this team has a 3-4 year path to being competitive again.

 

[DFF]

7.5 won’t be a burden. It’ll be very affordable in a few years. Skating defencemen have long careers. If you trade Hanifin the return will be meh assets that are likely no better than our Pelletier and Zary type players. The guy is a really good player and much like Brodie, Hamilton and JBO for some reason people only point out his flaws and never his strengths, which are numerous. The charred earth strategy rarely works or takes 10 years. You need some vets to show kids what being a pro is and Hanifin, Andersson and Wolf should be that group. With Pelletier, Poirier, Morin, Coronato, Zary, Ruzi, Honzek, etc. we have the makings of a decent middle of the roster. With a few elite offensive pieces and another D in the draft this team has a 3-4 year path to being competitive again.

That’s fine. Keep him. It’s not the worst thing.

All I am saying he is not something to build around. He is a complementary not the main piece.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

That’s fine. Keep him. It’s not the worst thing.

All I am saying he is not something to build around. He is a complementary not the main piece.

I tend to agree that he can’t be a top 3 or 4 player on the team. But he’s still a really good player. I look at Chicago. There is a whole lot of nothing around Bedard right now. Yeah they have a jewel but they could be stuck in the middle if they don’t find some more talent around him.

The cap should go to 100 million in 4-5 years, Markstrom, Backlund, and Coleman will already be expired. There will be lots of cap space if we are bringing in young players. 7.5 million is really a small price to pay for a 2/3 defencemen in a few years.

 

[DFF]

I tend to agree that he can’t be a top 3 or 4 player on the team. But he’s still a really good player. I look at Chicago. There is a whole lot of nothing around Bedard right now. Yeah they have a jewel but they could be stuck in the middle if they don’t find some more talent around him.

The cap should go to 100 million in 4-5 years, Markstrom, Backlund, and Coleman will already be expired. There will be lots of cap space if we are bringing in young players. 7.5 million is really a small price to pay for a 2/3 defencemen in a few years.

In reality, it’s going to be a bridge over period…5-10 yrs. None of these guys are going to be around when they can compete again . It took McKinnon 9 yrs to win the cup. McDavid has been in the league 9 yrs, it’s the Oilers but still he is still in rebuild mode lol

 

[Mobiandi]

I strongly believe selling any assets is off the table until there is a clear date in sight for the future arena and we see what Montreal is able to do with our 1st. How do you justify sucking at the benefit of another Canadian team while possessing the worst facilities in the league? It's still bananas to me that at all the possible times when we could have sold high on Monahan, we instead pick a time where we outright lose the trade as soon as it happens and then handcuffs us for another three seasons minimum.

Whether the Flames want to admit it or not, the Oilers status will also inform their timeline. When their core blows up too, a rebuild will be an easier sell to ownership.

 

[RasmusAndersson]

I tend to agree that he can’t be a top 3 or 4 player on the team. But he’s still a really good player. I look at Chicago. There is a whole lot of nothing around Bedard right now. Yeah they have a jewel but they could be stuck in the middle if they don’t find some more talent around him.

The cap should go to 100 million in 4-5 years, Markstrom, Backlund, and Coleman will already be expired. There will be lots of cap space if we are bringing in young players. 7.5 million is really a small price to pay for a 2/3 defencemen in a few years.

I don’t disagree that we should keep Hanifin if there’s no market for him and all we’re getting is Pelletier or Zary-level prospects. But I honestly think that there could well be a GM out there that sees what you see and would offer 1st+ or a similar young top-6F, in which case I’d be tempted to ship him and keep Zad. Hanifin is solid top-4 dman but he isn’t a core piece. If the market for him isn’t there now, I’d be okay resigning him and shipping him later.

On the point of Chicago/Bedard though, I completely disagree. Chicago did exactly what they should and they got the elite piece that 95% of teams are missing. Who cares that they have barely anything to support him yet? They’re 1-2 years into the rebuild and he’s gonna carry them to the playoffs for years to come. Players like Taylor Hall will magically want to go to Chicago just to play with him. Their long-term outlook is like 10x better than ours because they went all in and won the lottery. How can anyone look at Chicago as a bad management model when they have an insanely insanely bright future? Add Nazar, Moore, Rinzel and Korchinski in 1-2 years and you have a contender once you add a few vets with all the cap space saved from your 6 high-end ELC players.

Every team should be looking to follow that model, not keep non-core guys that prevent us from bottoming out in the standings and getting our Bedard

 

[Rubi]