Are the Penguins in a better place than last year?

[DesertPenguin]

The question was whether we were better off than last year, pre draft. So, lets investigate that instead of bemoaning RS vs JR, DB vs MJ.

2014

Kunitz - Crosby - Dupuis
????? - Malkin - Neal
????? - Sutter - Bennett
????? - ????? - Adams

Maatta - Letang
Scuderi - Martin
Despres - Bortuzzo

Fleury
?????

Top Prospects
Pouliot
Dumoulin
Harrington
Sundqvist
(2015 1st)

2015

Kunitz - Crosby - Hornqvist
Dupuis - Malkin - Perron
Spaling - Sutter - Bennett
?????? - ????? - ?????

Maatta - Letang
Scuderi - Cole
Pouliot - Lovejoy

Fleury
?????

Top Prospects:
Kapanen
Sundqvist
Harrington
Dumoulin
Murray

Analysis

Forwards:

Out: Neal, Adams
In: Hornqvist, Perron, Spaling

Kunitz and Dupuis are a year older, but adding Hornqvist, Perron and Spaling at the expense of Neal probably puts the 2015 pens slightly ahead of the 2014 pens here. Plus, no Adams. You'd like to see the Pens add a top 6 forward or two here, bumping guys like Dupuis, Kunitz and Spaling down the lineup or off the roster. Sundqvist, Rust, Wilson and Kapanen could also challenge for time this year, which is promising.

Winner: 2015 Pens

Defense:
Out: Martin, Despres, Bortuzzo
In: Pouliot, Cole, Lovejoy


Ugh. Losing Martin hurts this group big time. Despres vs Lovejoy has been done to death already, we know the score. Cole for Bortuzzo looks like a great move though, and Pouliot has graduated to the big club. Harrington and Dumo are also pressing. It's still not enough to offset Martin and Despres though.

Winner: 2014 Pens

Goal

In: Good Fleury
Out: Inconsistent Fleury

Goal is way more secure than it was at the end of last season, when we weren't quite sure what direction Fleury was trending. He did have a nice 2014 playoffs, but following that up with a better 2015 season and playoffs secured this spot.

Winner: 2015 Pens

Prospects:

In: Kapanen, Murray (emerged as legit top prospect)
Out: Pouliot (graduated), 2015 1st (traded)

Kapanen is a big boost to this group that offsets Pouliots graduation. However the loss of the 2015 1st will hurt this group moving forward, as will the pending graduation of guys like Sundqvist, Dumoulin and Harrington. Overall there is more going out than coming in, especially considering the picks traded away over the next two seasons.

Winner: 2014 Pens

Overall:

The one wildcard not yet discussed is cap space, which the Pens have more of in 2015 than 2014. If they can pick some diamonds from the rough in the weak FA market with that cap space, the 2015 pens could ultimately be in a better position than 2014. On the other hand, if that cap space is squandered, or if GMJR makes bad trades to fill spots in the lineup, we will be in even worse shape than 2014. The signings of Erhoff, Comeau, Downie, Goc and Griess were lauded, as was the trade of Goc for Lapierre, but ultimately those moves were not enough to get it done, and all were 1 year contracts leaving the 2015 pens in no better shape than 2014.

GMJR has enough flexibility to put the 2015 pens in a better place than the 2014 pens by the time the puck drops, but at the moment its more or less a wash.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Not really, we aren't younger and we don't even have many picks. This team isn't getting better as the years go

 

[chethejet]

By definition getting younger and playing Wilson, Rust, Oskar, DP, Dumo or Harrington is a fall off. But it is necessary to start the retooling of the franchise. Trading Sutter is a good move in that he may add more value to another franchise who need a center. The Ducks were loaded last year and didn't win the cup. Unfortunately, the Pens brass still firmly believes with some additions they are cup contenders. They are not. There are four to five teams better than the Pens in the east alone. The west has at least seven. Four core players no matter how good is not the basis for a cup contender. They are barely a playoff team at this point.

 

[cheesedanish87]

I'd say this is the worst place the pens have been in a long time.

Sid and Geno's best years are behind them, they don't really have much talent around Sid and Geno right now, they don't have many assets either.

Pens are probably the 4th or 5th best team in there own division, there isn't much to be excited about right now as a pens fan.

 

[BHD]

People forget that Shero is the guy that stuck behind DB, gave out all of those **** contracts, only drafted PMD, and "went all-in" and got swept in the ECF (blame DB but then Shero doubled down on Dan). I'm not saying that JR is good or anything, but Shero ran this team into the ground.

This.

JR isn't the best GM (and that is being polite), but any GM would have a hard time fixing this organization. That is how bad things were after Shero was dismissed.

 

[NeedleInTheHay]

No this team is worse off just like I figured it would be. The day JR was hired, I said he would ruin this team just like he did in Carolina. So far he's living up to his reputation.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

We're worse off this year. Lost Neal, Despres, and a 1st, gained Hornqvist, Spaling, Cole, and Perron.

JR's two biggest moves had us moving high-end players for lesser ones.

 

[Cherpak]

The only thing I'm looking forward to this upcoming season is when its over. By then we should have missed the playoffs, Johnston will have been fired, JR sent to the old folks home and Morehouse will have been handed his pink slip.

Then and only then can this team start the healing process.......hopefully

 

[NeedleInTheHay]

The only thing I'm looking forward to this upcoming season is when its over. By then we should have missed the playoffs, Johnston will have been fired, JR sent to the old folks home and Morehouse will have been handed his pink slip.

Then and only then can this team start the healing process.......hopefully

By the time the healing process is over, Sid and Geno are in their 30's.

 

[ObsessedCreative*]

We're worse off this year. Lost Neal, Despres, and a 1st, gained Hornqvist, Spaling, Cole, and Perron.

JR's two biggest moves had us moving high-end players for lesser ones.

Which, sadly is pretty much his MO as a GM.

 

[Shrimper]

Our roster is in a better position but it wasn't hard to be.

Rutherford has been 60/40 in his first season.

 

[Cherpak]

By the time the healing process is over, Sid and Geno are in their 30's.

I would have liked to see the process start before this season but thats just unrealistic. The earliest I see it is after this season is over. Its going to take us missing the playoffs for any real action to be taken.

Sid/Geno will be in their 30's for certain but thats no ones fault but the management/owners. Unfortunately they have squandered the primes of both players and will have to live with those decisions.

 

[orby]

If the Pens miss the playoffs this season i have a hard time imagining that it won't result in Malkin or Letang being traded.

 

[KIRK]

If the Pens miss the playoffs this season i have a hard time imagining that it won't result in Malkin or Letang being traded.

That would be the best thing in a long time that could happen . . .






















. . . for Malkin or Letang

 

[The Tang]

This.

JR isn't the best GM (and that is being polite), but any GM would have a hard time fixing this organization. That is how bad things were after Shero was dismissed.

While true even the best gms would have trouble fixing shero's mess, JR made it even worse, in particular the Lovejoy and winnik trades. We needed picks and despres, and gave up both for nothing

 

[KIRK]

While true even the best gms would have trouble fixing shero's mess, JR made it even worse, in particular the Lovejoy and winnik trades. We needed picks and despres, and gave up both for nothing

Therein lies the rub.

 

[Zero Pucks]

If the Pens miss the playoffs this season i have a hard time imagining that it won't result in Malkin or Letang being traded.

It'll be even more awesome when we don't have our first round pick for next year and we miss the playoffs. That's my prediction.

 

[KIRK]

We're worse off this year. Lost Neal, Despres, and a 1st, gained Hornqvist, Spaling, Cole, and Perron.

JR's two biggest moves had us moving high-end players for lesser ones.

A year ago, there was an opportunity for a two year fix if the Pens were willing to move on from Kunitz and Sutter and to, worst case, buyout Scuderi and Adams.

There were enough assets that with some really shrewd trades and those moves, combined with the aforementioned moves which would've addressed cap space and the stale culture of the team, really could've revitalized this organization.

Now, there are fewer assets, less youth, fewer trade chips, and less hope.

Here's a pair of depressing thoughts:

Hard truth is on defense we've got Letang, Maatta, and a bunch of bottom pair or worse defensemen. We're stuck, and really that's what the handling of players like Despres has left you.

Same goes up front with someone like Sundqvist, who should've been with the big club last year in a bottom six role and groomed for 3C for this year. So, now we talk about how we can't 'afford' to move Sutter.

And yet some people believe that the guy who somehow managed to dig Ray Shero's holes even deeper . . .

And, oh yeah, Sid and Geno both are a year older.

Yeah, I fail to see any metric whereby one could see the Pens as being in a better place than they were a year ago.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Therein lies the rub.

That's not the issue, sweetheart.

The issue is that Shero had control, the moment he left, the team went out and hired someone that didn't ask for that control because he probably had no clue what he was walking into.

Morehouse and his people run the team and it seems like there's some evidence pointing to that being the case.

Shero destroyed the Pens future by trading young assets and picks away for rentals without addressing the coaching issue.

Now people propose the team does the same, trading away young assets and picks. I am hoping JR fights to not have that happen.

The team is better from last summer because it has no Bylsma and Shero in charge. For me, that's a big enough change, even if the idiots that are Morehouse and his stooges, are running stuff behind the scenes at times.

 

[The Tang]

That's not the issue, sweetheart.

The issue is that Shero had control, the moment he left, the team went out and hired someone that didn't ask for that control because he probably had no clue what he was walking into.

While I won't argue the Morehouse point because I agree with it, I sincerely doubt JR didn't know what he was getting into

 

[PensBandwagonerNo272*]

June 24th

 

[titaniumexpose]

The only thing I'm looking forward to this upcoming season is when its over. By then we should have missed the playoffs, Johnston will have been fired, JR sent to the old folks home and Morehouse will have been handed his pink slip.

Then and only then can this team start the healing process.......hopefully

Yeah it's hard to be optimistic given how everything about the team has that shadow of doubt cast over it. I will agree with the poster that mentioned '14 Fleury vs '15 Fleury. He was Imo one of the improvements, however few.

 

[KIRK]

That's not the issue, sweetheart.

The issue is that Shero had control, the moment he left, the team went out and hired someone that didn't ask for that control because he probably had no clue what he was walking into.

Morehouse and his people run the team and it seems like there's some evidence pointing to that being the case.

Shero destroyed the Pens future by trading young assets and picks away for rentals without addressing the coaching issue.

Now people propose the team does the same, trading away young assets and picks. I am hoping JR fights to not have that happen.

The team is better from last summer because it has no Bylsma and Shero in charge. For me, that's a big enough change, even if the idiots that are Morehouse and his stooges, are running stuff behind the scenes at times.

I have every confidence in the champion of the Despres for Lovejoy deal. Morehouse really twisted his arm on that one.

 

[MrWilson*]

Pens have to stay healthy. It's that simple. Lot of off season yammering, but IMO, the Pens aren't that bad off (that has a lot to do with what I saw as a very boring, uninspired and frankly less than stellar SCF this year.) IF that is what they have to reach to win the Cup, they aren't that far away.

Defensively, with all injuries healed up, they are solid, Martin or not. Oct-Dec should be interesting. Pairings will be really important.

Not sure of their intentions with the Russian recruits, but it sounds good. Maybe an all Russian line will slingshot Geno? Word is he isn't happy/satisfied...maybe they're trying to address that by giving him a few friends? Add vodka and some borscht and POOF...you might get lucky.

Hornqvist-Sid-Perron?

Kapanen has earned a real shot, IMHO.

I'm not for trading Sutter. Like the guy as a 3rd line center and a whole lot on the PK. Also tends to be a very clutch player. But I guess they will move him.

Please keep LaPiere....

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

The Penguins organization saw a decent amount of change last year. James Neal was moved out. Shero and Bylsma were both fired. David Morehouse was promoted.

For the past four years, the Penguins HFBoards community was advocating for the firing of Bylsma and Shero as it would ultimately help the team out. Shero was consistently mortgaging our future. Bylsma's system was strangling our star players and propping up AHLers like Adams into "key" roles. Everyone was ecstatic when the Penguins finally fired both and moved into a new era.

The only issue was that we ended up with an AHL coach and Jim Rutherford. In their first year they barely made the playoffs. They traded away Despres and multiple picks for UFAs. Our first was traded for David Perron who was less than advertised. They also used what money we did have on free agency for a defenseman, akin to Shero.

Now we are nearly one year removed from those changes and we have JR in charge of what is probably the most important off season in the Crosby era?

Is it actually an improvement to have JR and Johnston entering this off season? Or would it have been better to just stick with Shero and Bylsma for one more year and fired them this off season? Allowing for actual NHL coaches like Todd Mclellan and NHL GMs like Pete Chiarelli to take over important management positions rather than whatever is running our franchise right now?

I honestly believe that Shero and Bylsma being here one more year would've done less damage to our franchise than what JR and Johnston have done in one year. I see so many parallels between the Canucks and Torts and last year and the Pens.

garbage