Are the Penguins in a better place than last year?

[Gurglesons]

The Penguins organization saw a decent amount of change last year. James Neal was moved out. Shero and Bylsma were both fired. David Morehouse was promoted.

For the past four years, the Penguins HFBoards community was advocating for the firing of Bylsma and Shero as it would ultimately help the team out. Shero was consistently mortgaging our future. Bylsma's system was strangling our star players and propping up AHLers like Adams into "key" roles. Everyone was ecstatic when the Penguins finally fired both and moved into a new era.

The only issue was that we ended up with an AHL coach and Jim Rutherford. In their first year they barely made the playoffs. They traded away Despres and multiple picks for UFAs. Our first was traded for David Perron who was less than advertised. They also used what money we did have on free agency for a defenseman, akin to Shero.

Now we are nearly one year removed from those changes and we have JR in charge of what is probably the most important off season in the Crosby era?

Is it actually an improvement to have JR and Johnston entering this off season? Or would it have been better to just stick with Shero and Bylsma for one more year and fired them this off season? Allowing for actual NHL coaches like Todd Mclellan and NHL GMs like Pete Chiarelli to take over important management positions rather than whatever is running our franchise right now?

I honestly believe that Shero and Bylsma being here one more year would've done less damage to our franchise than what JR and Johnston have done in one year. I see so many parallels between the Canucks and Torts and last year and the Pens.

Click to read more...

 

[Penguinator]

wtf?

 

[Asuna]

Nope. Pretty much the same....maybe worse.

 

[Penguinator]

I honestly believe that Shero and Bylsma being here one more year would've honestly done less damage to our franchise than what JR and Johnston have done.

But seriously, that was bad, as in wrong, as in false, as in a pure ****ing joke of a thread.

 

[Gurglesons]

But seriously, that was bad, as in wrong, as in false, as in a pure ****ing joke of a thread.

It is pretty easy to say yes or no to the question.

What exactly would Bylsma and Shero have done worse last year? Traded away youth? Given up picks for rentals?

We probably would've comfortably made the playoffs. Shero was completely handicapped in 2013-14 because of our moves in the lock-out season. We did better in the playoffs every single year under Bylsma except against the Flyers, who Johnston still could not solve to the point of embarrassment this year.

I also don't see Shero trading away Despres for a player he gave away for a 4th rounder. Even his worst trades were mostly centered around picks, outside of the Morrow trade, but at the same time people tend to forget how good Morrow was when he was actually healthy that year. He was PPG heading into the playoffs. He also was just a pretty big part of the bottom six on Tampa.

 

[T1K]

People forget that Shero is the guy that stuck behind DB, gave out all of those **** contracts, only drafted PMD, and "went all-in" and got swept in the ECF (blame DB but then Shero doubled down on Dan). I'm not saying that JR is good or anything, but Shero ran this team into the ground.

 

[Darth Vitale]

Nope. This thread won't last long.

 

[The Greatest 101]

Morrow is the Craig Adams of Tampa.

 

[ColePens]

Ask me this again when they move to KC

 

[Human]

just because JR and MJ might be **** doesn't make the RS/DB combo better. they were even ****tier.

 

[Zero Pucks]

I'm hoping we don't trade that 2016 first round pick.

 

[billybudd]

I have no issues with Johnston.

But the answer is no. JR did solid work last offseason, but during the year, he squandered too much for meager returns and let lame ducks die while getting nothing back.

The biggest deficit between this year's offseason and last year's is that Kunitz depreciated significantly and Martin walked. The second biggest is that we traded a lot of, perhaps, noncrucial assets for things that aren't worth as much as the assets in question.

If you're trading for a certain type of top 6 wing, it's nice to have a different type to send the other direction. Last year we did.

If you had told me mid-season that in the summer we'd need to build a package to acquire 2 more top-six wings, I'd have likely framed it around Sutter, Simon Despres and some draft picks. Except for Sutter, all that **** is gone, with little to show for it. So we're in a worse position than we were then, even though the genesis of the entire problem is Shero's drafting.

 

[The Greatest 101]

As much as I hate JR,he's so much better at drafting than Shero.

 

[HuskerTornado]

No. And the reason is because they refused to bite the bullet roster-wise last season and make the moves that should have been made and went all-in again come trade deadline for a squad that had no chance in hell of winning the East, let alone the cup. The lack of self-awareness in the organization is baffling at times.

They traded picks away and a guy they shouldn't have (Despres), held on to (Martin, Scuderi, Kunitz, Dupuis, etc.), signed (Ehrhoff), and traded for (Lovejoy, among others) guys they shouldn't have, which has resulted in a negative return on the last 12 months.

Had they done what they should have last off-season, they would have also not won a cup in 2014-15, but would have additional picks, prospects, and probably some good younger contributors from trading good vet players. Now assets they should have sold off a year ago are either UFAs now, or they had abysmal seasons and their trade value has fallen considerably.

 

[Gurglesons]

As much as I hate JR,he's so much better at drafting than Shero.

I think Carolina has less players drafted by JR playing in their line-up than the Pens do players drafted by Shero.

One of Carolina fans big complaints about JR was that he was pretty miserable in the draft. Just because he picked Kapanen doesn't make him a great drafter. Also, I won't be surprised if in two or three years we watch plenty of Shero's picks become solid NHLers. Hell, if it wasn't for JR our defense this year would be half defensemen drafted under Shero with Maatta, Pouliot and Despres.

 

[Gurglesons]

I have no issues with Johnston.

I think there are plenty of issues to be had with Johnston.

As much as I think Bennett isn't a top six forward at this moment, Johnston could've at least given him sustained time there. Especially when we are out Malkin, Comeau, and Hornqivst.

Look at Chicago and how they treat their stars during the playoffs. Kane and Toews are double shifted nearly the entire game. Chicago recognizes that games are won by giving their stars every opportunity to play.

Toews' average ice time in the playoffs this year is almost two minutes higher than Malkin. Kane almost a minute higher than Malkin.

I don't care how injured Malkin is, if he is able to play you play him. Instead we got to watch Brandon Sutter and Chris Kunitz out there with six guys on the ice.

Johnston was completely out of his league and is just another example of how far away this team is from contending.

In comparison, during Bylsma's last year here both Crosby and Malkin were averaging the same exact minutes as Toews and Kane in the playoffs. I can't believe I'm defending Bylsma, but honestly he did his job better than Johnston. Our team scored more, possessed the puck more, and pushed the play more. All things that Johnston was suppose to develop during his time here. The right regime running this team would've let both JR and Johnston go after this season. Instead, we have JR talking about how we need a first round pick, two top six wingers, and Rob Scuderi had an alright year. I can't wait until we are watching Johnston looking bewildered after every goal and he is fired half way through the season leading us to get another mediocre coach while coaches like McLellan and Babcock were open to us.

 

[#66]

People forget that Shero is the guy that stuck behind DB, gave out all of those **** contracts, only drafted PMD, and "went all-in" and got swept in the ECF (blame DB but then Shero doubled down on Dan). I'm not saying that JR is good or anything, but Shero ran this team into the ground.

Yup... its going to take a while to undo that damage. It is crazy to me that after all the attention to defense that moron did... the Pens need a defenseman this summer.

Blowing up this years draft for Perron and Winnik didn't help a thing.

 

[The Greatest 101]

I think Carolina has less players drafted by JR playing in their line-up than the Pens do players drafted by Shero.

That's not true at all.
JR also picked Jeff Taylor last year.Might be a steal.(0.91PPG in NCAA)

 

[Whale Mingo]

Nope. This thread won't last long.

I already lost my bet on "under" for how long this thread would last. Surviving two mods posting is such an overachievement.

 

[ObsessedCreative*]

Of course not this is the worst run franchise in the league and has been snowballing year after year. And I'm sorry to tell people it's only going to get worse. This coming season the Penguins will be even worse. On and off the ice. There is a very good and real chance they miss the playoffs this year. That's beyond pathetic.

 

[Penguinator]

This thread is gold.

As far as **** magnet goes...

 

[Phil68]

If the pens do miss the playoffs, don't be surprised when Malkin is traded, that Crosby will want out. No matter what the pens will get back for Malkin, Crosby would have to sit through a rebuild. Not sure he would be OK with that.

 

[cassius]

Overall, I'd say that we are worse off given that Jim Rutherford is one of the worst GM's in the league. Expect more lopsided trades in the next 12 months.

 

[Gold Diamond]

I have no faith in the front office of this team. They marry themselves to Bylsma/Shero for fail after fail, then finally fire them for whom? Johnston/Rutherford.

 

[Shaftception]

In comparison, during Bylsma's last year here both Crosby and Malkin were averaging the same exact minutes as Toews and Kane in the playoffs. I can't believe I'm defending Bylsma, but honestly he did his job better than Johnston. Our team scored more, possessed the puck more, and pushed the play more. All things that Johnston was suppose to develop during his time here. The right regime running this team would've let both JR and Johnston go after this season. Instead, we have JR talking about how we need a first round pick, two top six wingers, and Rob Scuderi had an alright year. I can't wait until we are watching Johnston looking bewildered after every goal and he is fired half way through the season leading us to get another mediocre coach while coaches like McLellan and Babcock were open to us.

Some just can't come to grips with the concept that while bylsma wasn't the right guy for the job anymore (maybe ever considering he only instituted his system the summer after they won), it doesn't mean johnston is either.

They scored less than tanking teams down the stretch, while actually trying to make the playoffs instead of earn the 1st overall pick. No amount of injuries excuses that drastic a drop in scoring, especially considering even bylsma's simpleton system suffered injuries to most of the same exact players (malkin, letang, martin, orpik) and barely missed a beat for years on end, at least in the regular season. Johnston's junior tier system simply had no answers other than the most basic coaching strategy in existence, trap all day every day and pray you get more deflection goals than the other team, which they couldn't even do that right most nights. And that doesn't even touch on as you said the out of touch bench management of his work horses or the handling of younger players. They had a terrible division record under his short tenure even before most of the injuries outside of maata occurred, and when the rest of them hit they collapsed entirely.

There is zero justification for anyone stating they see no glaring problems, let alone minor ones with johnston as his performance stands right now.