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- Oct 23, 2016
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Came across this TED talk that present some interesting things comparing current athletes with those of the past. They don't address hockey but the info the present is applicable to hockey.
The best example to take is Jesse Owens. He once held the world record for 100M track at 10.3 seconds. Usain Bolt now holds that at 9.58. So in almost a century we've come 0.7 seconds. That's it. But hold on, Owens had a different track, different shoes, etc. Andre De Grasse, Canada's best hope and quite possibly the best bet to take Bolt's place did a run that had Owens' shoes and track and did 11 seconds.
What I am trying to say is, sometimes we underrate the disadvantages of athletes back then. Which means are we THAT much faster than yesteryear?
Season | Height Avg. | Height Stdev. | Weight Avg. | Weight Stdev. | Art Ross | Height | Weight | Height Dev. | Weight Dev |
1947-48 | 70.4 | 1.78 | 173.8 | 13.04 | Lach | 70 | 165 | -0.2 | -0.7 |
1948-49 | 70.5 | 1.91 | 174.3 | 13.48 | Conacher | 74 | 175 | 1.8 | 0.1 |
1949-50 | 70.6 | 1.92 | 174 | 14.39 | Lindsay | 68 | 163 | -1.4 | -0.8 |
1950-51 | 70.8 | 2.02 | 175.5 | 14.88 | Howe | 72 | 205 | 0.6 | 2.0 |
1951-52 | 70.7 | 2.09 | 175.2 | 14.23 | Howe | 72 | 205 | 0.6 | 2.1 |
1952-53 | 70.9 | 2.02 | 175.6 | 14.3 | Howe | 72 | 205 | 0.5 | 2.1 |
1953-54 | 70.9 | 2.1 | 175.4 | 14.83 | Howe | 72 | 205 | 0.5 | 2.0 |
1954-55 | 71 | 1.98 | 175.4 | 15.22 | Geoffrion | 69 | 166 | -1.0 | -0.6 |
1955-56 | 71.1 | 1.95 | 177 | 14.57 | Beliveau | 75 | 205 | 2.0 | 1.9 |
1956-57 | 71.1 | 1.98 | 177.8 | 15.34 | Howe | 72 | 205 | 0.5 | 1.8 |
1957-58 | 71 | 1.8 | 177.1 | 14.19 | Moore | 70 | 168 | -0.6 | -0.6 |
1958-59 | 71 | 1.82 | 178.5 | 14.25 | Moore | 70 | 168 | -0.5 | -0.7 |
1959-60 | 71 | 1.88 | 178.6 | 13.48 | Hull | 70 | 195 | -0.5 | 1.2 |
1960-61 | 70.9 | 1.65 | 178.3 | 12.51 | Geoffrion | 69 | 166 | -1.2 | -1.0 |
1961-62 | 71.1 | 1.69 | 180.3 | 12.89 | Hull | 70 | 195 | -0.7 | 1.1 |
1962-63 | 71 | 1.66 | 181.2 | 13.21 | Howe | 72 | 205 | 0.6 | 1.8 |
1963-64 | 71.1 | 1.78 | 181.5 | 12.7 | Mikita | 69 | 169 | -1.2 | -1.0 |
1964-65 | 71.2 | 1.84 | 182.2 | 13.35 | Mikita | 69 | 169 | -1.2 | -1.0 |
1965-66 | 71.2 | 1.88 | 183.2 | 12.59 | Hull | 70 | 195 | -0.6 | 0.9 |
1966-67 | 71.3 | 1.93 | 184 | 12.7 | Mikita | 69 | 169 | -1.2 | -1.2 |
1967-68 | 71.2 | 1.86 | 183.2 | 12.85 | Mikita | 69 | 169 | -1.2 | -1.1 |
1968-69 | 71.1 | 1.81 | 182.7 | 12.97 | Esposito | 73 | 205 | 1.0 | 1.7 |
1969-70 | 71.2 | 1.91 | 183.6 | 13.09 | Orr | 72 | 197 | 0.4 | 1.0 |
1970-71 | 71.3 | 1.81 | 184.2 | 12.6 | Esposito | 73 | 205 | 0.9 | 1.7 |
1971-72 | 71.3 | 1.82 | 184.5 | 12.43 | Esposito | 73 | 205 | 0.9 | 1.6 |
1972-73 | 71.6 | 1.73 | 186.7 | 11.62 | Esposito | 73 | 205 | 0.8 | 1.6 |
1973-74 | 71.7 | 1.82 | 187.1 | 12.49 | Esposito | 73 | 205 | 0.7 | 1.4 |
1974-75 | 71.8 | 1.85 | 187.8 | 12.01 | Orr | 72 | 197 | 0.1 | 0.8 |
1975-76 | 71.9 | 1.83 | 188.6 | 11.88 | Lafleur | 72 | 185 | 0.1 | -0.3 |
1976-77 | 72 | 1.88 | 189 | 11.97 | Lafleur | 72 | 185 | 0.0 | -0.3 |
1977-78 | 71.9 | 1.88 | 189.1 | 11.99 | Lafleur | 72 | 185 | 0.1 | -0.3 |
1978-79 | 72 | 1.99 | 190.1 | 12.25 | Trottier | 71 | 195 | -0.5 | 0.4 |
1979-80 | 72 | 1.97 | 190.4 | 12.56 | Dionne | 69 | 190 | -1.5 | 0.0 |
1980-81 | 72.1 | 1.97 | 190.9 | 12.32 | Gretzky | 72 | 170 | -0.1 | -1.7 |
1981-82 | 72.1 | 1.96 | 191.6 | 12.93 | Gretzky | 72 | 170 | -0.1 | -1.7 |
1982-83 | 72.1 | 1.98 | 192.2 | 12.6 | Gretzky | 72 | 170 | -0.1 | -1.8 |
1983-84 | 72.1 | 1.95 | 192.6 | 12.99 | Gretzky | 72 | 170 | -0.1 | -1.7 |
1984-85 | 72.2 | 1.97 | 193.3 | 13.44 | Gretzky | 72 | 170 | -0.1 | -1.7 |
1985-86 | 72.3 | 1.94 | 194.7 | 13.33 | Gretzky | 72 | 170 | -0.2 | -1.9 |
1986-87 | 72.4 | 1.94 | 195.7 | 13.41 | Gretzky | 72 | 170 | -0.2 | -1.9 |
1987-88 | 72.5 | 1.93 | 196.4 | 13.35 | Lemieux | 76 | 230 | 1.8 | 2.5 |
1988-89 | 72.6 | 1.89 | 197.7 | 13.21 | Lemieux | 76 | 230 | 1.8 | 2.4 |
1989-90 | 72.7 | 1.9 | 198.4 | 13.44 | Gretzky | 72 | 175 | -0.4 | -1.7 |
1990-91 | 72.7 | 1.91 | 199 | 13.59 | Gretzky | 72 | 175 | -0.4 | -1.8 |
1991-92 | 72.7 | 1.94 | 199.6 | 13.81 | Lemieux | 76 | 230 | 1.7 | 2.2 |
1992-93 | 72.7 | 1.92 | 199.3 | 13.93 | Lemieux | 76 | 230 | 1.7 | 2.2 |
1993-94 | 72.8 | 1.91 | 200.5 | 14.43 | Gretzky | 72 | 180 | -0.4 | -1.4 |
1994-95 | 72.8 | 1.98 | 201.5 | 14.66 | Jagr | 75 | 230 | 1.1 | 1.9 |
1995-96 | 72.9 | 1.95 | 202.1 | 14.5 | Lemieux | 76 | 230 | 1.6 | 1.9 |
1996-97 | 73.1 | 1.95 | 203.6 | 14.82 | Lemieux | 76 | 230 | 1.5 | 1.8 |
1997-98 | 73.2 | 1.96 | 204.9 | 14.85 | Jagr | 75 | 230 | 0.9 | 1.7 |
1998-99 | 73.1 | 2.02 | 204.5 | 15.04 | Jagr | 75 | 230 | 0.9 | 1.7 |
1999-00 | 73.1 | 1.97 | 204.5 | 14.85 | Jagr | 75 | 230 | 1.0 | 1.7 |
2000-01 | 73.2 | 2.05 | 204.9 | 15.09 | Jagr | 75 | 230 | 0.9 | 1.7 |
2001-02 | 73.1 | 2.07 | 205.3 | 15.06 | Iginla | 73 | 210 | 0.0 | 0.3 |
2002-03 | 73.2 | 2.1 | 205.9 | 14.82 | Forsberg | 72 | 205 | -0.6 | -0.1 |
2003-04 | 73.3 | 2.06 | 206.3 | 15.12 | St. Louis | 68 | 180 | -2.6 | -1.7 |
2005-06 | 73.2 | 2.04 | 206.3 | 15.18 | Thornton | 76 | 220 | 1.4 | 0.9 |
2006-07 | 73.2 | 2.03 | 205.6 | 15.27 | Crosby | 71 | 200 | -1.1 | -0.4 |
2007-08 | 73.1 | 2.09 | 205.4 | 15.46 | Ovechkin | 74 | 220 | 0.4 | 0.9 |
2008-09 | 73.2 | 2.09 | 205.2 | 15.69 | Malkin | 75 | 195 | 0.9 | -0.7 |
2009-10 | 73.2 | 2.1 | 204.9 | 15.84 | H. Sedin | 74 | 183 | 0.4 | -1.4 |
2010-11 | 73.2 | 2.12 | 204.5 | 15.5 | D. Sedin | 73 | 190 | -0.1 | -0.9 |
2011-12 | 73.2 | 2.1 | 203.8 | 15.97 | Malkin | 75 | 195 | 0.9 | -0.6 |
2012-13 | 73.2 | 2.17 | 203.6 | 15.87 | St. Louis | 68 | 180 | -2.4 | -1.5 |
2013-14 | 73.1 | 2.13 | 201.9 | 15.71 | Crosby | 71 | 200 | -1.0 | -0.1 |
2014-15 | 73.1 | 2.11 | 201.2 | 15.17 | Benn | 74 | 209 | 0.4 | 0.5 |
Came across this TED talk that present some interesting things comparing current athletes with those of the past. They don't address hockey but the info the present is applicable to hockey.
The best example to take is Jesse Owens. He once held the world record for 100M track at 10.3 seconds. Usain Bolt now holds that at 9.58. So in almost a century we've come 0.7 seconds. That's it. But hold on, Owens had a different track, different shoes, etc. Andre De Grasse, Canada's best hope and quite possibly the best bet to take Bolt's place did a run that had Owens' shoes and track and did 11 seconds.
What I am trying to say is, sometimes we underrate the disadvantages of athletes back then. Which means are we THAT much faster than yesteryear?
Maybe?Excellent stuff.
Maybe a 24 year-old Gordie Howe actually could make a team in today's NHL.
36-year-old Mike Gartner was clocked at the NHL all-star game with the fastest speed, and that record stood for two decades until 19-year-old Larkin beat it by a little.
Do you think Gartner wasn't faster when he was younger than 36? Yet that one all-star game he was clocked at such a speed that it took 20 years to be surpassed. I think a young Gartner in today's NHL would be unparalleled.
Note: Young Mitch Marner breaks "fast" into the offensive zone and yet when he "quickly" releases a shot, 38-year-old Marleau is already standing next to the net for the tap in. The play-by-play guy talks about how fast Marner was in transition but forgot to mention the wheels the old 6'2 tall guy did blazing effortlessly to the net.
I think there isn't a defenseman in the league today that would win the Norris in a league with a Bourque and Lidstrom.
I don't think we're living in the greatest era of skill or strength in terms of topend talent, though maybe in terms of overall average, as a below average player today can still skate and stickhandle better than many stay-at-home defensemen and goons of years gone by.
Maybe?
Before the era of gym rats, he earned muscles the honest work way: summer jobs in construction.
205 lbs of muscle and skill.
Scotty Bowman went to games as a youngster and felt no one was close to Gordie Howe.
"He was a complete player. He had skill, he had strength, he had power, he was fearless and most people wouldn't even fool around with him... Gordie was as tough as there was. As prolific as there was... "
Bowman was impressed by his 20 years of top-5 NHL scoring.
Bowman coached the dynasty Habs and as coach of the Stanley Cup champions he got to pick all-star game participants to round out the roster and chose 52-year-old Hartford Whaler Howe and Gordie set up the game's winning goal.
Name an NHL team in any era that couldn't find room on at least their Bottom-6 for a Gordie Howe.
I don't think we're living in the greatest era of skill or strength in terms of topend talent, though maybe in terms of overall average, as a below average player today can still skate and stickhandle better than many stay-at-home defensemen and goons of years gone by.
Funny thing is I hit "like" on your post before i finished reading it to the end lol. I was agreeing with the first part....but I guess the second part makes sense too.
Bottom line is - athletes are faster, and hit harder, etc. How much of that is due to human being "physically" being superior vs due to training, or equipment, or ice surface, or whatever else....I don't know. I don't particularly care either to be honest.
I just know the game is faster and more skilled etc than it was in the past.
In the NFL the longest field goal (63 yards) from 1970 stood for a very long time until Matt Prater hit a 64 yarder in 2013. Three others were 63 yards as well in the last 20 years. Here is the kicker, Prater's kick, and two of the 63 yarders were at Mile High Stadium in Denver with the very high altitude and thin air. Tom Dempsey's kick in 1970 was in New Orleans. So let's put it this way, it took being in the thin air in Denver to beat a kick from 1970. So I think it is safe to say we've peaked when it comes to how strong our legs can be.
Not sure if it is best example the 100m but yes how little faster than Owens people got is a good example (at least for the elite specimen).
Maybe some other sport would benefit more with better training (more pro athlete that do only that), nutrition, etc... than something so pure explosion/genetic than what the 100m seem to be.
Runner used to that track/shoes were doing 11.x times in the heat:
Athletics at the 1936 Summer Olympics – Men's 100 metres - Wikipedia
Marathon for an other example:
Marathon world record progression - Wikipedia
Went from 3hours in 1908 to 2:25 in the 40s to almost just 2 hours.
Maybe it is a other sport that shoes has a great impact also too.
There is still many athletics record that are holding from the 60's to early 90s:
List of Olympic records in athletics - Wikipedia
List of world records in athletics - Wikipedia
Different anti-doping system and sport popularity changing I imagine but still.
Epo for marathon.
Excellent stuff.
Maybe a 24 year-old Gordie Howe actually could make a team in today's NHL.
It's obvious that players have not been getting bigger or stronger for the last twenty years. They sure got faster though. Equipment.
You mean because of his foot?
No. Circumstances from rules, to reliability, to last play of the game no other alternative.
Leg strength was never an issue. Even the recent kicks are last play of the half or game decisions. Otherwise a miss with time on the clock is very problematic.
You mean because of his foot?
.... I do believe thats what he's alluding to but only in part. Great comparative analogy from C58..... Dempsey as you know born without toes on his right foot (no fingers on his right hand either) and until then, kickers side-kicking the ball like in soccer. Dempsey introduced the straight on kick using a modified boot that many felt put him at an advantage, everyone else at a disadvantage. So his handicap turned into a positive with the innovative boot & approach to kicking the ball. It wasnt that he had greater leg strength, but the handicap combined with the equipment "advancement" (like with skates) an advantage.