Injury Report: Archibald “Not up to Speed”

[nabob]

I don't know about that. He's a fourth line NHLer that even average hockey fans wouldn't be able to recognize if they saw him walking down the street. Can't see many people changing their views based on his opinion, particularly when hockey players are stereo-typically viewed as the people of average intellect at best. Those that followed his posts further were likely to believe the same whether he said it or not.

We're not talking about Sid the Kid, Connor or even Matthews for that.

I think I’ll see what the Winnipeg Jets 4th line RW stance is on vaccines and just do whatever he thinks. He’s a public figure after all, so I should make decisions about my health based on his opinions.

 

[bone]

Misinformation is very much part of the reason we're nowhere near the finish line to this nonsense because people would rather believe some randos on YouTube or Twitter than people who have spent their entire lives studying this field.

100% agreed. But overstating the fact Archibald could have influenced thousands of people because of his great celebrity overstates his importance. Most of the misinformation that is being spread is because of the Uncle Kevin's and Aunty Karen's out there that have been caught in the algorithm and start sharing their bogus "news" stories. This has been a much larger influence on people than the beliefs of a fourth line NHLer.

 

[McDraekke]

I think I’ll see what the Winnipeg Jets 4th line RW stance is on vaccines and just do whatever he thinks. He’s a public figure after all, so I should make decisions about my health based on his opinions.

You're talking as if there AREN'T people making stupid decisions based on random internet people, let alone a millionaire.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

100% agreed. But overstating the fact Archibald could have influenced thousands of people because of his great celebrity overstates his importance. Most of the misinformation that is being spread is because of the Uncle Kevin's and Aunty Karen's out there that have been caught in the algorithm and start sharing their bogus "news" stories. This has been a much larger influence on people than the beliefs of a fourth line NHLer.

No doubt thousands wouldn't listen to him, but that also doesn't mean that nobody did. Misinformation spreads easily, much like the virus itself.

 

[nabob]

Misinformation is very much part of the reason we're nowhere near the finish line to this nonsense because people would rather believe some randos on YouTube or Twitter than people who have spent their entire lives studying this field.

All I have seen of Archi’s tweets were the couple from May 2020, well before there were vaccines. If there’s more I’d like to see them. Mind you I haven’t been dedicating my life to following the opinions of a random 4th line NHL hockey player. I didn’t choose to get Vax’d because McDavid did, and what Archi believes has zero impact on me as well.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

All I have seen of Archi’s tweets were the couple from May 2020, well before there were vaccines. If there’s more I’d like to see them. Mind you I haven’t been dedicating my life to following the opinions of a random 4th line NHL hockey player. I didn’t choose to get Vax’d because McDavid did, and what Archi believes has zero impact on me as well.

Great, sadly you're one person out of billions on the planet, many of which get their opinions from other people.

 

[McDraekke]

100% agreed. But overstating the fact Archibald could have influenced thousands of people because of his great celebrity overstates his importance. Most of the misinformation that is being spread is because of the Uncle Kevin's and Aunty Karen's out there that have been caught in the algorithm and start sharing their bogus "news" stories. This has been a much larger influence on people than the beliefs of a fourth line NHLer.

Nobody said that he's some great celebrity, but the fact still remains that he vocally refused to get the vaccine, posted BS about the Plandemic a year ago, posted that Dr Fauci was lying and tagged Trump. And I'm not saying that anyone DID take his influence into account, but it's the principle of the matter. He has a soapbox to stand on because he makes millions of dollars, plays in front of millions of people and children who idolize any hockey players. His opinion matters.

 

[bone]

No doubt thousands wouldn't listen to him, but that also doesn't mean that nobody did. Misinformation spreads easily, much like the virus itself.

I guess my point is moreso that people going down that path are seeing these "news" stories being posted by family members they love and trust and are far more likely to be influenced by that then a rather insignificant hockey player. Certainly he contributed, but I doubt there's even one person not related to Archibald that changed their mind because of something they saw him post.

 

[nabob]

You're talking as if there AREN'T people making stupid decisions based on random internet people, let alone a millionaire.

I would bet you all of Josh Archibald’s money that no one made their decision to get vax’d or not based on whether Josh Archibald got vax’d lol.

yes people make decisions based on what celebs do all the time. That’s why they make so much for marketing products. But is someone is deciding to not get vax’d based on a few old tweets from Archibald then then they would not have anyway lol.

 

[McDraekke]

All I have seen of Archi’s tweets were the couple from May 2020, well before there were vaccines. If there’s more I’d like to see them. Mind you I haven’t been dedicating my life to following the opinions of a random 4th line NHL hockey player. I didn’t choose to get Vax’d because McDavid did, and what Archi believes has zero impact on me as well.

Good for you. Other people make bad choices and are influenced by others who share the same world view. I'm happy to hear that you aren't.

 

[Aerchon]

But flu vaccines have been around for seemingly forever. You can't possible compare the level of their trust with those to the new Covid ones, despite all the literature and tests. These vaccines just came out this year (despite using a wealth of working knowledge from other vaccines to draw from), so what is the threshold for some of your friends to finally say, "Yup, this is the one, this is it." ? Is it THE next one? Is it one that comes out a couple years from now? Will it be FIVE years? Or more?

That's exactly where the waters get muddy. I don't know how many years a vaccine normally is trailed without emergency status. But also, originally Novavax for example, was already supposed to be out. They have delayed requesting for emergency status for unknown reasons. It has been very disappointing for those looking for vaccination and not wanting to take something that as of yet has no long term data in humans.

Its disappointing in this pandemic the lack of alternative options for those expressing caution.

 

[McDraekke]

All I have seen of Archi’s tweets were the couple from May 2020, well before there were vaccines. If there’s more I’d like to see them. Mind you I haven’t been dedicating my life to following the opinions of a random 4th line NHL hockey player. I didn’t choose to get Vax’d because McDavid did, and what Archi believes has zero impact on me as well.

Anything I've reference about his tweeting history can be found in the pages of this thread. No dedication needed.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I guess my point is moreso that people going down that path are seeing these "news" stories being posted by family members they love and trust and are far more likely to be influenced by that then a rather insignificant hockey player. Certainly he contributed, but I doubt there's even one person not related to Archibald that changed their mind because of something they saw him post.

I wouldn't say the number is zero, at least due to confirmation bias. Also I would suspect Archibald himself got his opinions from someone. He did seem to be a fan of the former guy.

 

[nabob]

Nobody said that he's some great celebrity, but the fact still remains that he vocally refused to get the vaccine, posted BS about the Plandemic a year ago, posted that Dr Fauci was lying and tagged Trump. And I'm not saying that anyone DID take his influence into account, but it's the principle of the matter. He has a soapbox to stand on because he makes millions of dollars, plays in front of millions of people and children who idolize any hockey players. His opinion matters.

You’re the one acting as is he’s some great celebrity that people are making life altering decisions based off his opinions…but if you want to believe that some tweet where he tagged trump is causing people to not get vax’d be my guest.

 

[nabob]

Anything I've reference about his tweeting history can be found in the pages of this thread. No dedication needed.

lots of trash to sort through. A few tweets from 17 months ago. Wow. Now that I’ve seen them I’m going to see if I can get un-vax’d because Josh Archibald, a 4th line NHLer tagged Trump in a tweet. Now you’ve made me change all my beliefs by exposing me to Archi’s tweets.

 

[McDraekke]

That's exactly where the waters get muddy. I don't know how many years a vaccine normally is trailed without emergency status. But also, originally Novavax for example, was already supposed to be out. They have delayed requesting for emergency status for unknown reasons. It has been very disappointing for those looking for vaccination and not wanting to take something that as of yet has no long term data in humans.

Its disappointing in this pandemic the lack of alternative options for those expressing caution.

Or we can trust doctors when they say the vaccine risks come nowhere close the risks associated with the virus itself?

 

[McDraekke]

You’re the one acting as is he’s some great celebrity that people are making life altering decisions based off his opinions…but if you want to believe that some tweet where he tagged trump is causing people to not get vax’d be my guest.

I said that if even one person took his lead, then he would be at fault. And in the previous part of that statement I said hundreds or thousands of people. Nowhere did I say he was some giant celeb. Regardless your viewpoint of not listening to others, many people do.

lots of trash to sort through. A few tweets from 17 months ago. Wow.

You've said yourself that people don't change their opinions very easily... so if that's true, then his opinion is still the same.

 

[bone]

Anything I've reference about his tweeting history can be found in the pages of this thread. No dedication needed.

So are we are we really suggesting this whole thing against Archibald's social media presence is based of three or four liked and/or retweeted tweets from the first few months of the pandemic? I always assumed theres some big history of tweets that have been deleted to hide the evidence, but this is all there is? And this somehow has led to him having great influence in changing people's minds about COVID and/or vaccines? Possibly even in the thousands?

 

[McDraekke]

So are we are we really suggesting this whole thing against Archibald's twitter is based of three or four liked and/or retweeted tweets? I always assumed theres some big history of tweets that have been deleted to hide the evidence, but this is all there is? And this somehow has led to him having great influence in changing people's minds about COVID and/or vaccines? Possibly even in the thousands?

I don't care if it's one tweet or a million tweets, if he believes that covid was planned, and believes that Dr Fauci is just spewing lies, then he deserves to have his social media account blocked.

 

[McDraekke]

So are we are we really suggesting this whole thing against Archibald's social media presence is based of three or four liked and/or retweeted tweets from the first few months of the pandemic? I always assumed theres some big history of tweets that have been deleted to hide the evidence, but this is all there is? And this somehow has led to him having great influence in changing people's minds about COVID and/or vaccines? Possibly even in the thousands?

You guys keep manipulating my words. He is a public figure, who MAY influence others. His decision to share misinformation about a pandemic is nothing short of negligent.

 

[nabob]

I said that if even one person took his lead, then he would be at fault. And in the previous part of that statement I said hundreds or thousands of people. Nowhere did I say he was some giant celeb. Regardless your viewpoint of not listening to others, many people do.



You've said yourself that people don't change their opinions very easily... so if that's true, then his opinion is still the same.

I listen to lots of people who I don’t agree with. Doesn’t mean that I adopt their beliefs.

your point isn’t about his opinion, but rather acting as if he’s non stop spamming social media with it…which is false (or at least appears to be since you won’t link anything showing otherwise).

 

[McDraekke]

I listen to lots of people who I don’t agree with. Doesn’t mean that I adopt their beliefs.

your point isn’t about his opinion, but rather acting as if he’s non stop spamming social media with it…which is false (or at least appears to be since you won’t link anything showing otherwise).

How are you now going to tell me what my opinion is, when I said nothing of the sort? My opinion is that his few tweets have the potential to do harm. I never once said he continues to post about this.

 

[bucks_oil]

I probably should have added a correct me if I am wrong on a couple of points!

Yes, I know it is not the classic way of doing it with AZ and J&J, but to a layman like me it’s more towards the classical approach than the mRNA vaccines so that is why I called it as such. This was in response to a poster that called for a next generation vaccine to come out against covid, based on the classical approach. You know more about this than I or the poster in question so maybe you could touch on that point. As I understand it these are the new generation vaccines, very effective with few side effects.

With regards to the narcolepsy from the swine flu vaccine, again as I understand it there have not been any conclusive studies as to why it happened, especially since different countries had different experiences and mainly Scandinavia (at least at first) saw these side-effects.

edit: looked again and on CDC’s website they do refer to looking into what effect a vaccine containing the strain had and did not find a connection. Thanks for the info.
Narcolepsy Following 2009 Pandemrix Influenza Vaccination in Europe | Vaccine Safety | CDC

No prob... I was only highlighting it because it is fairly commonly misunderstood point...

Reality is that if you are looking for "next generation COVID using classical approach", it is difficult to define. I'm going to call them "New School" since they don't use the newest of new technology, but they are far more modern than any of the vaccines we got as kids. And all of the vaccine types have their pros and cons.

This is how I see it:

Old School

1. Live virus attenuated vaccine - we don't want that when dealing with a deadly new virus
2. Killed vaccine - there were a few of these, but they weren't particularly effective
3. Subunit protein (just the spike) without adjuvant - probably not effective enough, not aware of any serious efforts in development

New School

1. Subunit protein (spike) + new adjuvant: safety depends on safety of the adjuvant, and there are very few adjuvants that have been approved for use in multiple products... but several efforts are in development now
2. Virus Like Particle (many spikes) + old/no adjuvant: VLPs can be more potent than (boring to the immune system) subunit spike protein ... so these could be the best, but they are hard to make, so usually...
3. Virus Like Particle (many spikes) + new adjuvant: you try to "dose-spare" by boosting their potency with an adjuvant

Next Gen: mRNA & viral vectors... we already discussed them

I suppose the "New School" vaccines have the advantage of being manufactured outside the body (rather than in your cells), but they still do the same thing... take the code for spike, have it grow in cells... but then they have the extra steps to isolate the spike (or virus like particle with spike on its surface) and purify it. ... that's why they are further behind.

Then... Once it is purified, most of them need to use a relatively new adjuvant... and so then the safety questions are more about those adjuvants. For example, you are right that the adjuvant in Pandemrix came under scrutiny but was ultimately deemed safe... but it took a while to clear its name.

 

[nabob]

How are you now going to tell me what my opinion is, when I said nothing of the sort? My opinion is that his few tweets have the potential to do harm. I never once said he continues to post about this.

You’ve made your opinion very clear…funny part is that people like you who want him nailed to a cross are garnering his tweets more attention than they had 17 months ago.

but hey any other random tweets from any other 4th line NHL players out there I should check out? Might want to change my opinion on some other major personal life/health decisions I have to make.

 

[McDraekke]

You’ve made your opinion very clear…funny part is that people like you who want him nailed to a cross are garnering his tweets more attention than they had 17 months ago.

but hey any other random tweets from any other 4th line NHL players out there I should check out? Might want to change my opinion on some other major personal life/health decisions I have to make.

Not sure why it is that you've decided to come on here and disagree with a point that I am not even making, but I'm done discussing this with you.

Do you people not understand that misinformation about the pandemic is the reason that things have gotten so bad in the US and here in Alberta? It's a very real problem that has killed thousands to millions worldwide.