Anton Forsberg

[herm1978]

Is he just a temporary backup that will soon be gone?

Thoughts?

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[DisgruntledHawkFan]

He's a talented young goalie. He hasn't been a problem.

 

[CallMeShaft]

He's had issues at times, but I haven't had any complaints in the last three games of his. He plays like that on a somewhat consistent basis and he'll be loved here almost as much as Darling was last season.

 

[LDF]

He's had issues at times, but I haven't had any complaints in the last three games of his. He plays like that on a somewhat consistent basis and he'll be loved here almost as much as Darling was last season.

forsberg played good in the game against Dal. too bad he was force to play while under fire.

 

[Blackhawks]

Trade Crawford, save some cap to fill the line up, at least he will be tradeable after this season if he ends the season with the similar numbers he has now. We know Toews and Seabrook won’t be tradeable because no one wants over paid junk.

 

[LDF]

Trade Crawford, save some cap to fill the line up, at least he will be tradeable after this season if he ends the season with the similar numbers he has now. We know Toews and Seabrook won’t be tradeable because no one wants over paid junk.

do they, the org wait to see how long CC is out ?? i mean they are still wanting to make the playoff. i feel that the Bhawks will not trade him, esp if they 1. make the playoff, and 2. have any success in the playoff.

however i will like to see a couple of more games to see forsberg play. yes this i the litmus test for him and the org.

 

[LordKOTL]

From what I've seen so far unless he completely tanks he'll probably be the backup for the rest of his deal, probably sign a Bridger for the year he's RFA'd, and when Crawford's deal is up either Crawford and the 'hawks part ways or he signs a Cam Ward-like deal and rides out his career here with Forsberg possibly taking over the starting slot (or if Forsberg isn't the answer, whoever they get as a long-term backup).

There's no way the 'hawks should get rid of Crawford before then. There's no way the skater core can carry a goalie anymore; the Crawford, Darling, and even Forsberg a bit have been carrying the skater core for the past few years and there's no way we can get a skater piece back that could turn the skater core from needing to be carried in net to being able to win with any old netminder. The last time that happened was over 5 years ago.

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

Forsberg has played well so far, but it's a handful of games. But it's way to early to start speculating on him one way or the other going forward. He's going to get a little bit of run here with Crow out. He's signed through next year so let it play out.

 

[SAADfather]

Besides the Colorado game, he's given us a chance to win in just about every game he's played. It's not his fault the team that's playing in front of him hasn't been scoring.

 

[Robsker]

I feel for Forsberg. he is something like 2 and 13 or so in his career. Since being here it has been all losses (either regulation or overtime). He has been OK. For the most part, his losses here were more the opposition playing very well or the team in front of him not playing overly well --- those losses were more on others than than on him. Now... he did look really bad in the shootout. But still... he has played well enough to get a win or two. I feel for him.

The confidence on this team is likely shot. Their captain has little confidence and inspires little confidence. The player view of the coaching --- I would guess --- is negative too (they must see themselves the roster management issues and be frustrated). And all this is in front of a rookie back-up goalie. Not an easy task for Forsberg or the team. the Hawks have to steal some points here soon or the point hole they will find themselves in might become too large.

Forsberg needs a win. So too do the Hawks.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Trade Crawford, save some cap to fill the line up, at least he will be tradeable after this season if he ends the season with the similar numbers he has now. We know Toews and Seabrook won’t be tradeable because no one wants over paid junk.

No offense, but when in doubt is your go to always to trade Crow?

We've leaned on Crow this season more than really any other, trading him is the quickest way to start tanking which I don't believe is where we're remotely at as of right now.

 

[Blackhawks]

No offense, but when in doubt is your go to always to trade Crow?

We've leaned on Crow this season more than really any other, trading him is the quickest way to start tanking which I don't believe is where we're remotely at as of right now.

We already tanking bud open your eyes, this team has the biggest tanking machines in Toews and Seabrook, if you don’t get rid of big contracts and start filling some depth hoping the cheap young players can play well cause this tanker is going to the bottom of the ocean anyway...

 

[No Fun Shogun]

And you're kidding yourself if you think this organization is remotely close to consider flushing it all down and tanking. This is still a team aiming for a playoff spot.

 

[LDF]

i feel that the team will win ..... it is a matter of the odds that they will.

i also feel that they might win a couple of games in a row. maybe if i see that, maybe i will stop being a downer.

Doubt it.

 

[Krivo25]

Start the rebuild. This team if it does make the playoffs is one and done. They don't make it out of the first round. In fact they will be lucky to make the playoffs.

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

Start the rebuild. This team if it does make the playoffs is one and done. They don't make it out of the first round. In fact they will be lucky to make the playoffs.

Can you clarify what this means? I see this posted occasionally, but no one ever goes into detail with what they mean by it. Are you suggesting they should trade the core and tank?

 

[Robsker]

Start the rebuild. This team if it does make the playoffs is one and done. They don't make it out of the first round. In fact they will be lucky to make the playoffs.

I would agree. Except that that rebuild requires a new culture and a new direction. Which means to be formally launched, we need a new coaching staff. To let Q go mid season is not appropriate for a man of his stature and his legacy of Cups at Chicago. He should be moved out after the season...

for the remainder of this season, I would love the Hawks playing Hino, Dauphin, Gus --- guys who may be part of the rebuild --- over Franson, Bouma and Wingels --- guys certain not to be part of the rebuild. Might this cost some wins now? Yes... it might. But irrelevant for now... the Hawks are going nowhere now anyway. I would play Forsberg much more than he was played (when Crow was healthy) to see what i have. If he fails... try Berube. That is --- the rest of this season is experimentation and field testing of the young players --- looking at who should be retained and developed and who is expendable. I would also try Cat in the top 6 --- with Kane and see how bad it will be defensively and how good it might be offensively.

So the rebuild has to be in stages. Slow now. After this season, an overhaul --- with Q out.

That said, major roster moves will be tough as we have huge contracts for players who cannot be moved. So... a true rebuild awaits the retirement of Seabs and Toews --- till then only minor changes can be made owing to $ limitations. Some options are to move Crow (which would hurt as he is our best or 2nd best player) --- if the return is good. Crow has value and so we might get something young and cheaper back and be worth it. Or, you can move Kane (which would hurt as he is our best or 2nd best player) --- he has a ton of value --- and we might get a ton back and that could help. But... each trade, were you to do it, would have to have sizable returns. What stinks is the only players we have with big salaries that can be moved are our best two guys. the other big salaries --- Toews, Seabs --- a staggering 17M for two players playing at less than 1/2 of their pay --- cannot be moved (no one will touch them). Duncs --- if we moved him now we would get something --- that too is an option. Again, he is still pretty good and his pay is not wacko out of line with performance.

But once more... you can trade only those who have value. To get something back, our better guys are the only real options. So... until Seabs and/or toews leave of their own volition, real progress of a meaningful sort is unlikely for the Hawks. I would guess that it will be 3-4 years after this season before the Hawks can again be a really competitive team. Incremental progress sure... wholesale progress is limited by those immense contracts. If kane can go (again ... ouch) then possible $ is freed up to accelerate things.

Last point. meaningful competitiveness for the Hawks will not likely come during the remaining years of Toews, Seabs, Crow and Kane. It will come --- if it comes at all --- from those developed now or obtained now.

First things first... at seasons end replace Q.


(which would hurt as he is our best or 2nd best player)

 

[Robsker]

To start the rebuild here is what I mean. Starting a rebuild is crafting your roster as best as one can to prepare for a future run at being competitive. the Hawks are not competitive now --- in the sense of being a Cup contender. This roster cannot become competitive --- not with the salary cap and toews and Seabs contracts and the other big contracts on top of that (Kane, Crow). So... one now can only go with youth, develop them as best you can and field-test guys with the mindset of developing them for the future. You do this in hopes that soon you can have turnover from these big contracts and back fill talent to the developing future. Right now it means to me that playing guys like Franson, Sharp, Wingels, Bouma makes little sense. play the youth and develop them. It will cost wins now --- when the few extra losses you incur matter little (because this season is likely w/o the playoffs anyway). By going with youth and field testing for the future, the future is brighter.

To start a rebuild is to generally play for the future more so than the present. Somewhat like the Astros did for a bank of years leading to now when they are great. It is gearing up for another hopefully extended run. It is realizing firstly though that the last run is long over. And... any such rebuild needs a new coach and a new culture --- typically --- before meaningful progress is made.

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

I would agree. Except that that rebuild requires a new culture and a new direction. Which means to be formally launched, we need a new coaching staff. To let Q go mid season is not appropriate for a man of his stature and his legacy of Cups at Chicago. He should be moved out after the season...

Q deserves a ton of credit for his time and accomplishments here, but if it's time to go, it's time to go. In the NHL, more than any other sport, you see in seasons coaching changes make a difference.

for the remainder of this season, I would love the Hawks playing Hino, Dauphin, Gus --- guys who may be part of the rebuild --- over Franson, Bouma and Wingels --- guys certain not to be part of the rebuild. Might this cost some wins now? Yes... it might. But irrelevant for now... the Hawks are going nowhere now anyway. I would play Forsberg much more than he was played (when Crow was healthy) to see what i have. If he fails... try Berube. That is --- the rest of this season is experimentation and field testing of the young players --- looking at who should be retained and developed and who is expendable. I would also try Cat in the top 6 --- with Kane and see how bad it will be defensively and how good it might be offensively.

The Hawks are 1 point out of a playoff spot, so the idea that the season is lost, 25% of the way through the year is really strange to me. I'm not too confident about the way things are going at the moment, but I don't get the rush to pull the plug on this season, much less this era.

I agree with getting Hino/Jurco whoever up here though.

So the rebuild has to be in stages. Slow now. After this season, an overhaul --- with Q out.


That said, major roster moves will be tough as we have huge contracts for players who cannot be moved. So... a true rebuild awaits the retirement of Seabs and Toews --- till then only minor changes can be made owing to $ limitations. Some options are to move Crow (which would hurt as he is our best or 2nd best player) --- if the return is good. Crow has value and so we might get something young and cheaper back and be worth it. Or, you can move Kane (which would hurt as he is our best or 2nd best player) --- he has a ton of value --- and we might get a ton back and that could help. But... each trade, were you to do it, would have to have sizable returns. What stinks is the only players we have with big salaries that can be moved are our best two guys. the other big salaries --- Toews, Seabs --- a staggering 17M for two players playing at less than 1/2 of their pay --- cannot be moved (no one will touch them). Duncs --- if we moved him now we would get something --- that too is an option. Again, he is still pretty good and his pay is not wacko out of line with performance.



But once more... you can trade only those who have value. To get something back, our better guys are the only real options. So... until Seabs and/or toews leave of their own volition, real progress of a meaningful sort is unlikely for the Hawks. I would guess that it will be 3-4 years after this season before the Hawks can again be a really competitive team. Incremental progress sure... wholesale progress is limited by those immense contracts. If kane can go (again ... ouch) then possible $ is freed up to accelerate things.

Comparing Toews and Seabrook is crazy. Seabrook could legitimately be out of the league in a year or two. Toews isn't producing at the level we would all want but 55 pt (his pace) centers who plays good defense don't grow on trees. Toews is overpaid, but he's not close to being in the Seabs ballpark.

It's interesting that you don't want to fire Q in season out of some form of respect but are willing to punt on Toews? How does that work?

Last point. meaningful competitiveness for the Hawks will not likely come during the remaining years of Toews, Seabs, Crow and Kane. It will come --- if it comes at all --- from those developed now or obtained now.

First things first... at seasons end replace Q.

Changing coaches is the first thing that should be done. That has to be tried before radically changing the roster. Look what a coaching change did in Pittsburgh. Look at LA this year. You have to see if a new voice/philosophy can lead to better results before you get rid of some of the best players this franchise has ever seen.

The grass isn't always greener on the other side. Look at Buffalo. They would kill to be fighting for a playoff spot right now. 7 years without the playoffs. The Hawks haven't even missed the post season yet and people want to blow it up?

I understand the frustration for the teams play. But to me the idea of blowing up the whole team is so premature to me.





(which would hurt as he is our best or 2nd best player)

Finally, someone actually spells out what a rebuild means in there eyes. I'm probably going to disagree with most of this, but I do appreciate some sort of a plan. My responses in red.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Keep re-tooling. They're bringing along impact youngsters in Schmaltz, Cat and Forsling. They've got young role players in Hayden and Hartman.

This team has more talent than the record indicates.

 

[helicon1]

Before stripping it down, I'd be interested in seeing this team with a new coach. It's perplexing to me that this team is so much less than the sum of it's parts. Especially considering so many of the key young/new players have performed well (Schmaltz, Forsling, Murphy, Debrincat).

 

[Robsker]

Finally, someone actually spells out what a rebuild means in there eyes. I'm probably going to disagree with most of this, but I do appreciate some sort of a plan. My responses in red.

I really like your points. Most of them I agree with. Now for clarity --- I am not flushing the season down the tubes. Yes it is 25 games in and the Hawks are but 1 pt out of the playoffs. they may still make the playoffs, sure. What i am saying is that this season should largely be played with the futre in view, not the present...

Playing Bouma, Sharp, Franson, and Wingels over the youth from Rockford and playing Crow all the time w/little from Forsberg suggests that the team is playing for now --- rather than the future. Now, Wingels and Sharp and franson and Bouma and when healtyhy playing Crow 85% of the time may get us a few more points and get us to the playoffs over say having more of Forsberg and Hino, Dauphin, Gus, whoever from the Rock. But... I would rather have those young guys developed for next year (and the future) and miss the playoffs this year than not have them developed and barely make the playoffs (if we make the playoffs --- which is by no means certain --- and even if we do it is almost certainly one and done). Play for the future.

Been following this team for 50 years --- there are times of decline-transition to a rebuild --- many such cycles. this is one of them. or... it should be.

But -- at this juncture for the Hawks --- playing guys who will not be the future over guys who may be is not wise. I am afraid they will overplay Duncs and accelerate his decline. they will overplay Crow at the expense of developing his replacement and I am afraid Franson, Wingels, Bouma and Sharp will occupy roster space they should not. The team is making decisions consistent with not recognizing that they should be rebuilding. A new coaching staff is needed!

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

I really like your points. Most of them I agree with. Now for clarity --- I am not flushing the season down the tubes. Yes it is 25 games in and the Hawks are but 1 pt out of the playoffs. they may still make the playoffs, sure. What i am saying is that this season should largely be played with the futre in view, not the present...

Playing Bouma, Sharp, Franson, and Wingels over the youth from Rockford and playing Crow all the time w/little from Forsberg suggests that the team is playing for now --- rather than the future. Now, Wingels and Sharp and franson and Bouma and when healtyhy playing Crow 85% of the time may get us a few more points and get us to the playoffs over say having more of Forsberg and Hino, Dauphin, Gus, whoever from the Rock. But... I would rather have those young guys developed for next year (and the future) and miss the playoffs this year than not have them developed and barely make the playoffs (if we make the playoffs --- which is by no means certain --- and even if we do it is almost certainly one and done). Play for the future.

Been following this team for 50 years --- there are times of decline-transition to a rebuild --- many such cycles. this is one of them. or... it should be.

But -- at this juncture for the Hawks --- playing guys who will not be the future over guys who may be is not wise. I am afraid they will overplay Duncs and accelerate his decline. they will overplay Crow at the expense of developing his replacement and I am afraid Franson, Wingels, Bouma and Sharp will occupy roster space they should not. The team is making decisions consistent with not recognizing that they should be rebuilding. A new coaching staff is needed!

We disagree with where this team is, which is fine. As someone else said, this team is less than the sum of it's parts right now, which means the coaching change is likely in order.

As for the roster decisions, Bouma and to a lessor extent Sharp and Franson ( I think Wingels has been fine) aren't helping the team win, so I have no problem going to younger guys at all. It's not a question of development vs winning to me. I think Hino and a few others would be better than Bouma for sure and likely the other players we are talking about. At the same time the legend of Vinnie grows by him not being up here. I'd bring him up, but I don't think he's more than a 3rd line energy guy who can really skate. So I don't see the need to develop him at the expense of winning now. But as I mention, I don't think it's an either or case if we are talking about Bouma.

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

Before stripping it down, I'd be interested in seeing this team with a new coach. It's perplexing to me that this team is so much less than the sum of it's parts. Especially considering so many of the key young/new players have performed well (Schmaltz, Forsling, Murphy, Debrincat).

This I agree with completely. If you would have told me that the young guys were preforming as well as they have, I would have thought we would be a top of the division, especially when you through in Crow playing at a Vezina level.

You have to give another coach a shot before trading the core. I actually don't think the Hawks are that far away from being a good team, but maybe that's too optimistic on my part. Maybe a new coach can be the spark the team needs. I won't pretend to be smart enough to know who that should be though.

 

[Robsker]

I am not certain that the team is that much a lesser sum than its parts. To a degree yes. but lets not overstate the parts either. The parts are not that impressive. the parts are being mismanaged to be sure, but the parts are not that awesome. Even properly managed, this team is still quite a ways from being overly competitive. The Hawks are wahat something like 14-16 or 17 maybe 18 of the 31 teams now --- improperly managed. What would they be if they were better managed? not sure... but i highly doubt that a top 5 or even close to that is possible. my point is that the coaching has been bad yes... but the team is no so great either.

Time my friends. it will take time. This makes those glory years that much more special because we are again reminded as fans of what it is like to love and cheer for a middling team. time is needed to rebuild. And by the way... cheering for a middling team is still fun --- just not as fun. hockey is simply great even if the season for us ends before the playoffs.