The Mighty Duck Man
R-E-L-A-X
Probably wouldn't even need to go that far, just would need to add central registry as a verifier that the lists were received on time. Probably would be enough but sounds like they're just gonna go a step further.
Confirmed with Link: [ANA/VGK] Evgenii Dadonov and 2023 or 2024 2nd for John Moore and Ryan Kesler (OFFICIALLY VOIDED)
- Thread starter MMC
- Start date
This is kinda where I'm at. It was failings on multiple levels.
They apparently have the central registry for all contract info except no trade lists. Just a weird, highly specific failure
Vipers31
Advanced Stagnostic
Since folks don’t like Vegas, here’s a most negative theory on how things could have went down: they tried to offload Dadonov, the Ducks gave them the best offer, they knew they were on his no-no-list, they traded him anyway and then told him he better not fight this because this way he at least gets to play, while otherwise they’re just going to unload him after the deadline to one of the teams not on his list and he has to sit on the sidelines for the rest of the season.
The Midnight Burrito
True Fan
I don't like Vegas and I don't even think it was that nefarious. I think Vegas knew about the list, knew what was on it and that it was probably filed correctly but that they hadn't been "officially" informed, and decided to lean on that and trade Dadonov anyway and hope that the parties involved would just see what a mess it would create to void the whole thing and go along. So in short, attempt the trade they knew shouldn't work, HOPE that it worked, and claim official ignorance if it fell apart.
WhatTheDuck
9 - 20 - 8
Not sure if this is confirmed, but I read the Dadonovs just welcome a new baby about a week before this whole debacle. If true, it sort of throws a bit of extra fuel on the "Vegas sure don't seem to really give a crap about people do they?" fire.
duxfan1101
Registered User
It wasn't just Vegas that didn't know the NTC was still in effect. Even the NHL was under the belief that the NTC was voided at the time of the Ottawa-Vegas trade. Maybe Vegas should have looked into it more, but most sources seem to think Ottawa was mostly at fault here.
Why should he waive and immediately lose out on hundreds of thousands of dollars in taxes?
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
Shouldn't Vegas have reaffirmed the NTC when they traded for Dadanov? There was a 10-team NTC that Dadanov didn't have to waive to be traded to Vegas. And if Vegas had options of trading Dadanov into the future, then shouldn't they also make sure the 10-team NTC did or did not transfer from Ottawa during the trade being made official? While it could be the Sens were negligent (got lost in paperwork), was Vegas banking that "the 10-team NTC wasn't filed correctly" logic on purpose? Vegas could have contacted Dadanov's agent all the while that they were going to shop Dadanov and that would have been a good time to for Dadanov's agent to bring up his 10-team NTC and proper filing correspondence.
Then again, it may be customary for GMs not to contact player's agents before they get traded. Verbeek didn't contact Manson's agent at all about contract talks, implying that he's gonna be traded at the TDL.
I guess it would depend on how much he values control. Right now it's completely up in the air.
Heres what I dont understand, how can there be no compensation to the Ducks (maybe Vegas) and how can there be no punishment to the Sens?
From what many insiders are saying, the Knights weren't at fault here and the finger is being firmly pointed at Ottawa. And there is no timing issue, thats not how the TDL has ever worked. You push these things as late as you can go to get max return. You also are dealing with a pretty complex transaction where you need capologists to get involved to make sure the LTIR monies are being handled properly. And remember, the league signed off on this originally too.
And this whole no central registry thing is quite dumb. We live in a very technically advanced era, this is not difficult to setup.
I understand, you dont want things getting leaked for the whole world to see. However, there are ways to secure this information while still having it on file and having it filed properly with a 'chain of evidence' to be referenced.
Right now, the teams are the only ones who know the specifics of a players no trade list. So its only up to them to receive and distribute as needed. huge fail.
Seems to me that they should have a centralized system with all specifics about players contracts with a security system that allows only a select amount of individuals to access "protected" information, such as a No Trade List.
Guys signs a contract with a modified NTC. Player submits his list of teams to his agent. Agent pulls up the NHL Centralized system and enters his agent code for submission. Agent uploads the list to the system. This is timestamped and a confirmation goes out to the player, agent and team hes signing the contract with.
Team starts looking to trade the player, or a team is interested in trading for a player. They pull up his profile on the system and there is a big red ! next to his name, indicating there is protected info about the players contract. This way anyone who looks up this player can see they have specific information in their contract that all teams need to check on before making a trade.
You can either make it so only 1-2 individuals per team can access all of this information OR have it so only the team who currently "owns" the player can access or release the information. You could even have a system where it takes 2 to tango. Team A licks on "Request info" and enters their GM passcode. Team B receives the request and clicks "Accept" and enters their GM passcode.
If any info is ever leaked you can check who accessed the players profile and when they did so. Have a severe punishment for anyone who leaks the info like a $5mil fine or indefinite suspension.
There you go NHL, I just solved your problem in less than 10 minutes. Pay me.
From what many insiders are saying, the Knights weren't at fault here and the finger is being firmly pointed at Ottawa. And there is no timing issue, thats not how the TDL has ever worked. You push these things as late as you can go to get max return. You also are dealing with a pretty complex transaction where you need capologists to get involved to make sure the LTIR monies are being handled properly. And remember, the league signed off on this originally too.
And this whole no central registry thing is quite dumb. We live in a very technically advanced era, this is not difficult to setup.
I understand, you dont want things getting leaked for the whole world to see. However, there are ways to secure this information while still having it on file and having it filed properly with a 'chain of evidence' to be referenced.
Right now, the teams are the only ones who know the specifics of a players no trade list. So its only up to them to receive and distribute as needed. huge fail.
Seems to me that they should have a centralized system with all specifics about players contracts with a security system that allows only a select amount of individuals to access "protected" information, such as a No Trade List.
Guys signs a contract with a modified NTC. Player submits his list of teams to his agent. Agent pulls up the NHL Centralized system and enters his agent code for submission. Agent uploads the list to the system. This is timestamped and a confirmation goes out to the player, agent and team hes signing the contract with.
Team starts looking to trade the player, or a team is interested in trading for a player. They pull up his profile on the system and there is a big red ! next to his name, indicating there is protected info about the players contract. This way anyone who looks up this player can see they have specific information in their contract that all teams need to check on before making a trade.
You can either make it so only 1-2 individuals per team can access all of this information OR have it so only the team who currently "owns" the player can access or release the information. You could even have a system where it takes 2 to tango. Team A licks on "Request info" and enters their GM passcode. Team B receives the request and clicks "Accept" and enters their GM passcode.
If any info is ever leaked you can check who accessed the players profile and when they did so. Have a severe punishment for anyone who leaks the info like a $5mil fine or indefinite suspension.
There you go NHL, I just solved your problem in less than 10 minutes. Pay me.
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
Or you can implement redundancy confirmation between the two trading teams that are involved with a player with any form of NTC as a part of the trade call procedures. This would imply that the league would have every player with any form of NTC have a flag, just like how Puckpedia and CapFriendly already have flags of a player's NTC.
Again, Vegas knew they were trading for a player with a limited NTC contract. Why didn't Vegas confirm the limited NTC didn't transfer as a form of redundancy? Simple, they were hoping that technicality of not being on file with the league would imply the limited NTC no longer exist, which is the scenario @The Midnight Burrito brought up early in this thread. Unfortunately, Dadanov's agent has the receipt.
They knew there was the NTC, as did the league, however both thought the clause was void because the team responsible for reporting it never actually reported it on the trade call. That part of the issue with the current system. This is where and why you need some kind of system that the league and all parties can access things like this with timestamps and approvals.
Why is the league allowing something like this to only be handled by the teams? That in itself is a huge blind spot. If the league needs that info to validate a trade, the league should have all of that information on hand.
Control of what? His NTC is valid and he has his contractually agreed control over his trade destination as intended.
I'm a bit curious if anyone even asked Dadonov what the issue was, and if there was a way it could be rectified? If it was as simple as cash lost to taxes, then maybe the league could have allowed Vegas to add a bonus of say $500k, (that doesn't apply to the cap) to Dadonov to make all parties happy? That seems easier than screwing over Anaheim's plans, and Vegas cap situation. The league would(should) also admit to their glitch in the matrix, and create a solution that this never comes up again. The cost of the black eye being $500k doesn't seem to high to me
The Mighty Duck Man
R-E-L-A-X
You can't just add money so that's not gonna fly. And no matter what other factors he's probably not going to want to willingly leave his current team, one in the playoff hunt and one that believes it can win the cup if they get in, for one in the lottery. No real way of rectifying that.
Well, they did void a confirmed trade, so yeah, anything's possible. I didn't say Dad would take that offer, but I wondered if they even attempted to contact him. He may have said yes, seeing as the alternative looks like him sitting until next year.
Terry Yake
Registered User
- Aug 5, 2013
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The Mighty Duck Man
R-E-L-A-X
No, anythings not possible. They have the right to void trades after the fact, they can't renegotiate deals or add money. Now you're right they maybe could've laid some pressure on him to try and sway him, and maybe they did, but it's too late now.
The Mighty Duck Man
R-E-L-A-X
Might be more of a question of if and not when. Kind of looked like Vegas might've LTIRed him, at the very least he wasn't gonna join them, and he's played 48 games in three years. He might just be done at this point.
Voiding a trade for this reason is unprecedented, and I believe the Kovalchuk void had an arbitrator. This one the league just made the unprecedented move of saying, 'no, this isn't happening', and didn't even give an adequate explanation. I don't see why they couldn't have done the same authoritarian thing with the bonus or some other settlement
The Mighty Duck Man
R-E-L-A-X
The Kovalchuk ordeal had an arbitrator because the NHLPA challenged his deal being voided and the arbitrator ruled the NHL could. They have the right to void things, they don't have the right to renegotiate deals at all. This wasn't even an instance of being authoritarian, they voided the deal because it shouldn't have been approved in the first place and new information proved that.
- Apr 9, 2012
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There might have even been attempts to convince him to waive his NTC I'm guessing, but whether it was him, his agent, or the PA, I'm sure there was pressure to make sure what he negotiated for in his contract was honored.
Having the right to void things that you yourself approved in itself is the definition of authoritarian. I think they did right by Dadonov, but not right by the Ducks. Just because the Ducks likely won't make a stink doesn't mean the way the league handled it was the best way. Them pointing fingers at Ottawa after THEY approved it, was wrong, too. You don't rely on goodwill to see that things will be done correctly.
