Confirmed with Link: [ANA/VAN] Kesler to Anaheim for Bonino, Sbisa, 24th (and exchange of 3rds)

[Teemu Salami]

Trust me, Bones will be good. As you can see we still wish we had him for our 3C spot.

 

[Reign Nateo]

Trust me, Bones will be good. As you can see we still wish we had him for our 3C spot.

Yeah Bonino looks like a solid 3rd liner. That's the problem though, gave up Ryan Kesler for a 3rd line centre, an waste of 2.2 million and a late first. That's pathetic. Obviously didn't have much choice, but damn what a steal for the Ducks.

 

[Elvs]

You guys stole Ryan Kesler. Nick Bonino is decent but nothing special, pretty poor skater and not dynamic. Luca Sbisa is awful, like one of the worst defencemen in the NHL bad. A lot riding on Jared McCann to make this palatable as a Canucks' fan but not looking good.

Damn Kesler and his no trade lists!

Kind of excited to see Kesler in this situation, happy for him even though our organization takes the shaft yet again. A healthy and happy Kesler playing behind Ryan Getzlaf on a 2nd line is going to be impressive. He played with no heart for us over the last two years or so, but when he's motivated, he's a beast. And no reason he won't be motivated this year.

Congratulations on the fleece job and Kesler wanting to be a Duck.

Maybe give Bonino and Sbisa more time than a few preseason games before writing them off? Sbisa was bad last year, but had plenty of health issues. He's nothing more than a #6 currently and that's where the expectations on him should be for this season. He's still young and if he can stay healthy maybe there's still some upside there.

Bonino isn't fast, but neither is Perry, Getzlaf or the Sedin twins and they are all pretty ok. He's not dynamic, but he still gets the job done both offensively and defensively. Also, I think you have high standars for a 3rd line center. Combined, there are 90 1st, 2nd and 3rd line centers in the NHL. Bonino ranked 40th in points among centerman last season. I'd say he's an average or low tier 2nd line center, if he's a 3rd he's a great one.

 

[caliamad]

really wish we could have kept Bonino in the 3rd line center role, would have happily given up etem, palmierir, silfverberg, dsp over him. Even at a 2nd/3rd too.

Kesler is definitely an upgrade a huge upgrade and getting them to take Sbisa as part of the package is a sad joke. feel bad for them really. He was our year long scapegoat for a reason.

Given that and we kept the 10th, you got to be pretty happy w/ the trade from our pov.

 

[TheJoeMan]

You guys stole Ryan Kesler. Nick Bonino is decent but nothing special, pretty poor skater and not dynamic. Luca Sbisa is awful, like one of the worst defencemen in the NHL bad. A lot riding on Jared McCann to make this palatable as a Canucks' fan but not looking good.

Damn Kesler and his no trade lists!

Kind of excited to see Kesler in this situation, happy for him even though our organization takes the shaft yet again. A healthy and happy Kesler playing behind Ryan Getzlaf on a 2nd line is going to be impressive. He played with no heart for us over the last two years or so, but when he's motivated, he's a beast. And no reason he won't be motivated this year.

Congratulations on the fleece job and Kesler wanting to be a Duck.

I want to echo the sentiments that Bonino will show his worth. He's clutch. I want to say that you should give Sbisa the benefit of the doubt being preseason and all but that's just not true. I still can't believe Murray was able to unload him in the deal.

 

[Sojourn]

Give Bonino a chance, and hope your coach can utilize him properly. Boudreau didn't just use him like he was just a top six center. He was more like a tool that Boudreau would use when he needed something to happen. He isn't a dynamic player, so don't expect that. He's a very, very smart player. Think of him a bit like an offensive defenseman version of a forward, in the sense that he's someone who thrives in certain situations, and he may not show his worth as much if you can't use him properly.

Sbisa, well, he's a talented guy. He has all the tools to be a very good defenseman. I just don't think he got instruction manuals to go with those tools. He dumb.

 

[Reign Nateo]

Bonino looks useful. Solid 40 point centre that can play a lot of roles. Hasn't looked too exciting so far this year, but serviceable and fitting in well. Just not the kind of talent I expected back for a guy like Kesler.

Sbisa must have been a cap dump becuase he is beyond terrible, would rather he doesn't suit up really. His qualifying offer won't be accepted so we have a bust, over-paid, turn over machine rotting on the roster for a year. Can't fathom how this guy was included.

Jared McCann looks like a solid prospect, starting off the year with mono.

Just nothing there that makes it worth dealing probably your best player to a division rival. I appreciate that we haven't seen enough of Bonino to really judge him yet, but if I know Kesler he's going to make this trade look very, very bad this year.

Anyway, good luck to the Ducks this year and enjoy Kesler. You keep him happy and you have a force on the ice that can bang heads with any centre in the league.

 

[Exit Dose]

With Sbisa, I suspect that it was a matter of getting what you could on top of Bonino and a 1st, which if memory serves was a 2nd that they held out to get upgraded to a 1st. Under the circumstances, I'd say that Benning did well.

 

[bminucci]

really wish we could have kept Bonino in the 3rd line center role, would have happily given up etem, palmierir, silfverberg, dsp over him. Even at a 2nd/3rd too.

Kesler is definitely an upgrade a huge upgrade and getting them to take Sbisa as part of the package is a sad joke. feel bad for them really. He was our year long scapegoat for a reason.

Given that and we kept the 10th, you got to be pretty happy w/ the trade from our pov.

I am pretty sure Bones was ahead of all of them on who Murray wanted to keep. I don't think the deal gets done without losing Bonino sadly.

 

[bminucci]

Give Bonino a chance, and hope your coach can utilize him properly. Boudreau didn't just use him like he was just a top six center. He was more like a tool that Boudreau would use when he needed something to happen. He isn't a dynamic player, so don't expect that. He's a very, very smart player. Think of him a bit like an offensive defenseman version of a forward, in the sense that he's someone who thrives in certain situations, and he may not show his worth as much if you can't use him properly.

Sbisa, well, he's a talented guy. He has all the tools to be a very good defenseman. I just don't think he got instruction manuals to go with those tools. He dumb.

Spot on. Too many nights I was left scratching my head watching him play.

 

[linden79]

I'm going to be pissed when Vancouver fans boo Kes in his homecoming. That guy bled for us like nobody else, and was probably more emotionally invested in the team than anyone I've ever seen in our uniform.

He's better than Bonino, and I'm excited to see what he can do with consistently good linemates.

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

I'm going to be pissed when Vancouver fans boo Kes in his homecoming. That guy bled for us like nobody else, and was probably more emotionally invested in the team than anyone I've ever seen in our uniform.

He's better than Bonino, and I'm excited to see what he can do with consistently good linemates.

You're a bigger person than me. I'd boo him. Guy bailed because he thought you sucked, and he tied your management's hands in doing it.

 

[Vipers31]

You're a bigger person than me. I'd boo him. Guy bailed because he thought you sucked, and he tied your management's hands in doing it.

Tying their hands is entirely his right though due to his NTC, which he earned and which is worth a substantial amount of money in contract negotiations.

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

Tying their hands is entirely his right though due to his NTC, which he earned and which is worth a substantial amount of money in contract negotiations.

Yeah. I didn't say he did something he's not allowed to do.

 

[Vipers31]

Yeah. I didn't say he did something he's not allowed to do.

But you did say that you'd boo him, and mentioned that as part of the reason. I don't think excercising a well-earned and paid for right is an understandable reason. Not that I think fans have to be reasonable at all times - I could certainly understand booing him out of pure emotion in combination with the impression of him leaving a ship he apparently believed to be sinking.

 

[Arthuros]

Give Bonino a chance, and hope your coach can utilize him properly. Boudreau didn't just use him like he was just a top six center. He was more like a tool that Boudreau would use when he needed something to happen. He isn't a dynamic player, so don't expect that. He's a very, very smart player. Think of him a bit like an offensive defenseman version of a forward, in the sense that he's someone who thrives in certain situations, and he may not show his worth as much if you can't use him properly.

Sbisa, well, he's a talented guy. He has all the tools to be a very good defenseman. I just don't think he got instruction manuals to go with those tools. He dumb.

Agreed. Boneheaded plays are like...his trademark.

Occasionally, you'll get Sbisa actually living up to his draft position and using all of his tools correctly, and the results are fantastic.

Then again, a broken clock is right twice a day...

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

But you did say that you'd boo him, and mentioned that as part of the reason. I don't think excercising a well-earned and paid for right is an understandable reason. Not that I think fans have to be reasonable at all times - I could certainly understand booing him out of pure emotion in combination with the impression of him leaving a ship he apparently believed to be sinking.

It's perfectly reasonable to boo. An act is not immune from criticism just because it's within the actor's rights. I am perfectly within my rights to tell everyone I meet today to **** off and die, but I'd expect some pretty strong pushback.

It's also more then just an impression that he abandoned a sinking ship. That's literally what he did. I'm glad he's here, he's a great player, but he left like a dick. He's going to be deservedly booed.

 

[Vipers31]

It's perfectly reasonable to boo. An act is not immune from criticism just because it's within the actor's rights. I am perfectly within my rights to tell everyone I meet today to **** off and die, but I'd expect some pretty strong pushback.

Not a great example, and I'm not even sure if it actually was within your rights to actually tell everyone to "**** off", but even if you are, there's obviously a social convention involved. I don't believe there's any social convention about not being allowed to use one's earned and paid for contractual clause. That part alone, to me, absolutely doesn't make it reasonable. The second part, sure, but looking at the first part abstractly, I really don't see it.

It's also more then just an impression that he abandoned a sinking ship. That's literally what he did. I'm glad he's here, he's a great player, but he left like a dick. He's going to be deservedly booed.

Yeah, I worded that badly, the impression was supposed to go with the sinking ship, as we don't know whether it's even further sinking (yet). But I don't think every time a player asks for a trade he's a dick, not even when the team's starting to do worse. He wasn't holding out or anything, he just asked for it, and didn't even leverage it any further by making it public. I think he could well have been a dick about it, but didn't. I still understand him getting boo'd from an emotional point of view and wouldn't blame anyone for it. But I don't think the rationalizations really connect and paint such a dry picture.

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

Not a great example, and I'm not even sure if it actually was within your rights to actually tell everyone to "**** off", but even if you are, there's obviously a social convention involved.

It's actually pretty close to a perfect analogy, with a bit extra vitriol thrown in. You're not good enough for me, send me somewhere better. I'll tell you where. I don't care how that damages you.

I don't believe there's any social convention about not being allowed to use one's earned and paid for contractual clause. That part alone, to me, absolutely doesn't make it reasonable. The second part, sure, but looking at the first part abstractly, I really don't see it.

That's because you're using a disingenuous framing convention - the four corners of a contract - rather than looking at the action in context. You emphasized the earned nature of the right, but players gain leverage and money through the good will of their team's fans, and by their connection to that team. Fans expect a certain level of loyalty and a certain set of behaviors from players on their team, and it's not a secret. To use your terminology, that sounds like a social convention to me.

And while it may be contradictory to contract for a right that flies in the face of that convention, soo too is it contradictory to allow someone to wish everyone a **** off day and still disapprove of it. And yet there it is.

Socially acceptable behaviors do not perfectly overlap with legally permitted behaviors.

Yeah, I worded that badly, the impression was supposed to go with the sinking ship, as we don't know whether it's even further sinking (yet). But I don't think every time a player asks for a trade he's a dick, not even when the team's starting to do worse. He wasn't holding out or anything, he just asked for it, and didn't even leverage it any further by making it public. I think he could well have been a dick about it, but didn't. I still understand him getting boo'd from an emotional point of view and wouldn't blame anyone for it. But I don't think the rationalizations really connect and paint such a dry picture.

I do. And I think I'm a pretty reasonable guy. Speaking of rationalizations, and being a reasonable guy, I remember a time, not too long ago, when opinion here would not have been so forgiving to this extremely unpopular opposing player. If I think real hard, that would have been just before the rumors of him being a trade target for us kicked off.

 

[Vipers31]

That's because you're using a disingenuous framing convention - the four corners of a contract - rather than looking at the action in context. You emphasized the earned nature of the right, but players gain leverage and money through the good will of their team's fans, and by their connection to that team. Fans expect a certain level of loyalty and a certain set of behaviors from players on their team, and it's not a secret. To use your terminology, that sounds like a social convention to me.

That would be a social convention, but I don't think that mirrors reality all that well. It's more of an idealistic approach that might work for lowest scale professional sports, but hardly the big business that is NHL hockey. Even then, Kesler isn't bound by the good will the fans express by giving money to Kesler's bosses. That's who they bind, if anyone. Kesler's due is towards his bosses, who are responsible to administer the commercialized good will of their fans, and they did so by giving Kesler that specific right instead of more money. If there's anger about him using that right, it would more sensibly directed at the middle man who receives the good will and uses it to get people to do a job for him (so that he can further the good will he receives).

Socially acceptable behaviors do not perfectly overlap with legally permitted behaviors.

Generally true. I just don't think there actually is a social convention here. Which we probably will have to agree to disagree on, since we'll probably not get a study in on that.

I do. And I think I'm a pretty reasonable guy. Speaking of rationalizations, and being a reasonable guy, I remember a time, not too long ago, when opinion here would not have been so forgiving to this extremely unpopular opposing player. If I think real hard, that would have been just before the rumors of him being a trade target for us kicked off.

No doubt. I don't believe I'd have taken part in that, as I never disliked Kesler as much as the general hockey public seemed to, but I am no stranger to disliking guys even for less reasonable reasons (with Kesler, there obviously are reasonable ones, looking beyond the way he left Vancouver). Still, this seems more emotionally understandable than reasonably understandable to me.

And while it is a fun discussion and one that's certain to further my English skills, it may not really be that important at the end of the day.

 

[linden79]

My impression is that the media hyped up the drama surrounding Kesler's departure for the sake of readership. They did the same crap with Bure and Luongo. It's not like he pulled a Kovalchuk. He played within the rules, and got what he wanted. At the same time, we aren't exactly destroyed as a team. Bonino will be good for us, and we needed good young prospects.

 

[Kin33]

That would be a social convention, but I don't think that mirrors reality all that well. It's more of an idealistic approach that might work for lowest scale professional sports, but hardly the big business that is NHL hockey. Even then, Kesler isn't bound by the good will the fans express by giving money to Kesler's bosses. That's who they bind, if anyone. Kesler's due is towards his bosses, who are responsible to administer the commercialized good will of their fans, and they did so by giving Kesler that specific right instead of more money. If there's anger about him using that right, it would more sensibly directed at the middle man who receives the good will and uses it to get people to do a job for him (so that he can further the good will he receives).


Generally true. I just don't think there actually is a social convention here. Which we probably will have to agree to disagree on, since we'll probably not get a study in on that.


No doubt. I don't believe I'd have taken part in that, as I never disliked Kesler as much as the general hockey public seemed to, but I am no stranger to disliking guys even for less reasonable reasons (with Kesler, there obviously are reasonable ones, looking beyond the way he left Vancouver). Still, this seems more emotionally understandable than reasonably understandable to me.

And while it is a fun discussion and one that's certain to further my English skills, it may not really be that important at the end of the day.

Just because Kesler did right by his bosses doesn't mean he did right by his fans.

edit: Also the purpose of a NTC is warped when a player with one asks for a trade. Kesler said he wanted a NTC when he signed that contract because he didn't want to be traded away from the close friends he had on the team.

 

[Sojourn]

Just because Kesler did right by his bosses doesn't mean he did right by his fans.

edit: Also the purpose of a NTC is warped when a player with one asks for a trade. Kesler said he wanted a NTC when he signed that contract because he didn't want to be traded away from the close friends he had on the team.

I don't think he's suggesting that.

However, the purpose of a NTC isn't nearly as cut and dried as you're suggesting. If your GM isn't aware of the risks associated with giving an NTC to a player, then he just isn't being smart. There is always the risk that a player will want to move on, at some point. It's true the day after a player signs a contract, and it's true throughout the course of that contract. You can't be naive about the possibility it could come back and bite you in the ass.

 

[Quack Shot]

I'm just curious, but since Kesler has been traded does that mean Anaheim is free to trade him much like what happened with Lubo?

 

[2faded]

I believe the team gets to choose if they want to honor the NTC. I'm guessing they didn't.