All-X2 Draft Sign Up Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.

Frightened Inmate #2

Registered User
Jun 26, 2003
4,385
1
Calgary
Visit site
OK I am finally getting around to posting my ratings from the all time draft #2. I know that there are some people here that will not agree with some of my ratings and I am sorry if that is the case. I do lack a bit of hockey knowledge from different time periods and I have to rely on what I know from my readings on the players as a result but here it goes.

Offense.

Devils A – This team really isn’t the most skilled, at least in my opinion, but this is the hardest working team that I see in the draft. Every profile I have read about these men confirms that, and for that reason alone I would have to say this is a very solid offense. The two things that prevented the A+ would involve first the selection of Peter Bondra for the third line, a player whose defensive game at least in my opinion is poor at best.

Senators A- - This team had the chance to be a contender, to be something with the selections of Howe and Lemieux (even thought that was more luck than skill). Left wing is pretty weak in my opinion as to date I don’t think that Kovalchuk has proven himself. Also that first line doesn’t really have a defensive type player on it at all. At the same time Robitaille well lets just say he isn’t fleet of foot. Steve Larmer that is at least in my opinion an odd selection. I also really question the selection of Selanne for the fourth line as this past season proved how effective he was in that role. Don’t know much about Denneny but from what I have been able to read he also doesn’t seem like a fourth line type player.

Red Army A- - I know this might seem biased but I really think that the team that I have built is a very solid team from an offensive potential standpoint. I know a lot of the names I selected are not known to a majority of the fans here, but I do feel as though they are some great players. My biggest regret however has to be me deciding to drop Syl Apps… when I look back on it I think he could be the best player right now for this team. Also size is a definite issue with my lines – tough players but I feel as though they could get manhandled.

Flyers A- Size up the middle is a problem I can see right off the bat. Good group of forwards though. I would have changed Hextall and Middleton but that could really be seen as a lateral move. No big complaints. Really like the selection of Propp although I think his size could be a problem on the fourth line there, especially with Cowley and Hextall who really are not that big of players themselves.

Rangers A- – Size on the first line is a huge issue, or in the case of Jagr using that size to do anything remotely physical. I do see the logic in having LeClair and Lindros together from the Legion of Doom days but at the same time I feel as though Leclair was riding Lindros’s coat tails a lot of the time and benefited greatly from him being there (just look at what happened to LeClair after Lindros left, and what he was before he was there). That line though is big, it is tough and it is skilled. Great third line, has some scoring potential and can play a crash and bang game which is what a third line should be able to do. Fourth line I don’t like Thornton there yet, what would go great in his place though would be a big crash and bang center that could pot a few goals… I don’t know who that is but I don’t think it is Thornton. Basically another Sutter would fir into that line like a glove… actually that would be my only real lineup change I would recommend switch Thornton and Sutter. ---- I did get a laugh out of how many players drafted by the Islanders are on the rangers team.


Detroit B++/A- - It would be higher except there is a definite lack of size especially on the third line which should be required to have a little bit of muscle in my opinion. I just can’t help but think it would make a much better second line. Great fourth line though, especially Provost (who is underappreciated).


Toronto Maple Leafs B+ - A heavy emphasis on the more modern players is quite evident but at the same time I think that this could be a detriment. The reasoning behind this is that players such as Owen Nolan and Steve Thomas really are not all time greats, and would be a detriment to the team in my opinion. Also for the life of me I am trying to determine why Sundin is on the fourth line (as a right winger, a position I don’t think he really plays) and Nolan is on the third line. In general the forwards you have selected are not exceptionally fast- not slow, but my no means are they a fast team in my opinion. Left wing is a definite area of concern as Roberts is fragile (at least from his years in Calgary) and I am just not a Steve Thomas fan from the perspective of an all time team and he was a right winger, not a left winger. I do really like the 1-2 punch of Mogilny and Hull though.

Hamilton tigers B+ - Solid Lineup.... forgot about this team.

Wasps B + - Archie Stinchcombe? Who? The big complaint that I have with this team is Nilsson on the top line. He is one of the most skilled but one of the laziest players to ever play the game. Defence was also the least of his concerns – and at the same time McDonald and Beliveau are not really known for their defensive play. I do love the second line though. Very solid third line although Doug Bentley would be better suited for a second or first line role…. But I do love the selection of Verbeek. Solid fourth line but once again and Howe at least from what I have read would fit back there quite well. Jarvis is also a good pick in terms of a defensive player. Not a spectacular group but a very solid group.

Golden Seals B – Just lacking size, especially in the bottom lines there. Good group of forwards, especially the centers on the team. I am actually chuckling at the thought of Clarke with Burch and Cournoyer as I think everyone knows Clarke would kill one of the two before the end of the first game. In general a really small team, with a lineup that just at least in my opinion doesn’t seem to mesh together that well.

Calgary Flames C+ - Really I don’t like this team from an all-time team perspective. Scoring just isn’t there from well the bottom two lines and the second line is small and lacked anything in the form of a defensive conscious. With the exception of Neely the first line is also very small. Selections such as Madden shouldn’t be made in this draft (I still think he is overrated), although the bottom two lines do have a purpose I just think that scoring is at a premium. Gretzky is keeping this team from a C-
 
Last edited:

Frightened Inmate #2

Registered User
Jun 26, 2003
4,385
1
Calgary
Visit site
Goaltenders

1. Red Army (Sawchuck, Tretiak, and Holecek) A+
2. New Jersey Devils (Hasek, Broda, and Hainsworth) A+
3. Rangers (Brodeur, Richter, and Joseph) A
4. Detroit Red Wings (Roy, Brimsek, and Vernon) A
5. Philadelphia Flyers (Plante, Cheevers, and Thompson) A-
6. Maple Leafs (Belfour, Fuhr, and Bower) B+
7. Hamilton Tigers (Dryden, Dzurilla, and Hextall) B+
8. Calgary Flames (Parant, Esposito, and Giacomin) B
9. California Golden Seals (Smith, Vanbiesbrouck, and Worsley) B
10. Wasps (Hall, Foster, and Gardiner) B-
11. Senators (Lindberg, Khabibulin, and Moog) B-
12. Winnipeg Jets (Durnan, Worters, and Benedict) C
 

Frightened Inmate #2

Registered User
Jun 26, 2003
4,385
1
Calgary
Visit site
1. New York Rangers – Best defence in the draft in my opinion. Offensively and defensively skilled, tough, and well I don’t see anything wrong with this team.
2. Devils – Led by the best defenseman of all time in Orr the Devils have the corps which at least in my opinion is one of the biggest toughest and pretty much the best defence in the draft. I also really like how there are a number of players who would be able to play a forward position and defense.
3. Maple Leafs – I really like what was done with the pairing of Suter and MacInnis but I think that it could overall be a detriment to the team as Suter was taken way too high for the type of player that he is. Good defensive defensemen were selected, even though I think that they could be a bit slow for the draft. Good steal in Zubov though – Ozolinsh I find could have been picked a bit later and I don’t know how well he would go with Hatcher just because of the complete difference in styles
4. Detroit Red Wings – Solid defence with a good grouping of players who are big, and who are skilled. I don’t know how you picked Tremblay so late but that is one of the biggest steals of the draft.
5. Flames – Start off really strong with Coffey, Park and Lapointe and a very solid pick in Harry Howell – but I really don’t like the bottom 3 selections as Murphy, Gonchar and to a lesser extent Redden just don’t seem to belong. Murphy and Gonchar really while they do put up some great numbers would need to be on the ice with a defensive specialist or just be there for the powerplay.
6. Red Army – The more I look into it I don’t like the selection of Sologubov. Other than that it is a good defence which is solid and seems to have a good tough streak running through the team.
7. Wasps – Solid players – nothing that really stands out either way though. Not really quite sure who would e on the power play though as a pure offensive defenseman seems to be lacking.
8. Philadelphia Flyers – Solid defence, nothing special – but at the same time nothing really bad with the team. Seems to me like the bottom defence pairing isn’t as strong as some of the other teams.
9. California Golden Seals – Don’t know much about some of the players, but a solid defence. Great top three in Harvey, Johnson, and Laperriere.
10. Ottawa Senators – Really don’t like the look of this defense… Norstrom, Schneider, and Jackman don’t really have a place in this draft in my opinion. Solid players but especially in the case of the last two there were so many better players that could have been taken.
11. Tigers –Bottom four are well weak at best, a problem that must be looked at when the top pairing while very good isn’t one of the best in the draft.
12. Winnipeg Jets – Once again the bottom lines are not good, but well the information on some of the draftees is weak at best, and well I can’t make an accurate judgement on many of the players.
 
Last edited:

Frightened Inmate #2

Registered User
Jun 26, 2003
4,385
1
Calgary
Visit site
1. Devils
2. Rangers
3. Red Army
4. Philadelphia Flyers
5. Detroit
6. Toronto
7. Wasps
8. Tigers (dropped due to a very poor coaching decision in Tikhonov - doesn't fit with players selected in a personality sense).
9. Seals
10. Senators
11. Winnipeg Jets
12. Calgary Flames
 

monkey_00*

Guest
Benton Fraser said:
1. Devils
2. Rangers
3. Red Army
4. Philadelphia Flyers
5. Detroit
6. Toronto
7. Wasps
8. Tigers (dropped due to a very poor coaching decision in Tikhonov - doesn't fit with players selected in a personality sense).
9. Seals
10. Senators
11. Winnipeg Jets
12. Calgary Flames

Benton Fraser.........

I think you've ranked the Tigers too low......your reasoning for dropping the Tigers for coach selection is questionable.......HOWEVER, in your opinion if I had someone else coaching instead of Tikkanov like Al Arbour for example where would you then place the Tigers on this list of 12?.........just curious..........as well I would like your opinion regarding the forwards on the Tigers roster........

............in my opinion I think I have at least the #3 team in this League..........I have alot of BIG GAME players in my roster as well.....I think during the playoffs my team would kick some serious ass.......a total of 7-Conn Smythe trophy winners altogether on the Tigers roster........

Hamilton Tigers Conn Smythe trophy winners:

1967...Dave Keon (C)
1971...Ken Dryden (G)
1978...Larry Robinson (D)
1979...Bob Gainey (LW)
1981...Butch Goring (C)
1987...Ron Hextall (G)
1996...Joe Sakic (C)
 
Last edited by a moderator:

BM67

Registered User
Mar 5, 2002
4,777
286
In "The System"
Visit site
monkey_00 said:
Benton Fraser.........

I think you've ranked the Tigers too low......your reasoning for dropping the Tigers for coach selection is questionable.......HOWEVER, in your opinion if I had someone else coaching instead of Tikkanov like Al Arbour for example where would you then place the Tigers on this list of 12?.........just curious..........as well I would like your opinion regarding the forwards on the Tigers roster........

............in my opinion I think I have at least the #3 team in this League..........I have alot of BIG GAME players in my roster as well.....I think during the playoffs my team would kick some serious ass.......a total of 7-Conn Smythe trophy winners altogether on the Tigers roster........

Hamilton Tigers Conn Smythe trophy winners:

1967...Dave Keon (C)
1971...Ken Dryden (G)
1978...Larry Robinson (D)
1979...Bob Gainey (LW)
1981...Butch Goring (C)
1987...Ron Hextall (G)
1996...Joe Sakic (C)
Since he rated you forwards at 8, your goalies at 7 and your D at 11, and gave you a - for your coach, getting 8 looks pretty good.

Other than having the biggest D, I don't think you have a top 3 anything on your team.
 

Frightened Inmate #2

Registered User
Jun 26, 2003
4,385
1
Calgary
Visit site
The only coach that really would have helped your draft standing would be Bowman, but only by one spot. The depth wasn't there, especially by comarison to some of the other teams. I will throw up a bit of a description as to why your team was rated as it was a bit later. It really isn't an insult or anything it just doesn't seem like that team would perform in comparison to the other teams, especially when you consider your team has defensemen on it such as McSorley and Smith, two defensemen that even in their prime were not considered to be great defensemen.
 
Last edited:

monkey_00*

Guest
BM67 said:
Since he rated you forwards at 8, your goalies at 7 and your D at 11, and gave you a - for your coach, getting 8 looks pretty good.

Other than having the biggest D, I don't think you have a top 3 anything on your team.

BM67..........

That's not entirely accurate........besides having 7-Conn Smythe trophy winners; which I believe is tops in this draft I also have the winningest coach in International hockey; Viktor Tikhonov....I don't buy the arguement that my team was placed a couple of spots lower than it should have been because of "the coach selection".....Brenton Fraser (formerly Maxwell Edison) ranks my coaching low simply because he drafted a team made up of mostly Russians and he wanted to draft Viktor Tikhonov for himself but I beat him to the punch......not only that but Tikhonov had good record against NHL clubs as well........and don't forget how the Soviet National team did against the NHLers back in 1981........

I also have plenty of big game players....and by "big game" I mean players that really excelled in the playoffs.....besides having the 7-Conn Smythe trophy winners which I've already outlined you also have to consider the following:

(1) Joe Sakic is FIRST alltime in playoff overtime Goals
(2) Glenn Anderson is SECOND alltime in playoff overtime Goals

..........so I have the top 2 guys alltime on my team for NHL playoff overtime goals as well:

(3) Tim Kerr who holds the NHL record for most powerplay goals in a season with 34
(4) I have the "X-Factor" on my team John Tonelli who was the 1984 Canada Cup MVP......damn great players in the NHL playoffs too.

My top line of Yakushev-Sakic-Bure is as good as any in this League........

I also have the top defensive forward alltime; 4-Selke trophy winner Bob Gainey playing on my checking line with Mr.Playoffs Butch Goring at Centre and Jarome Iginla on the right side to add some scoring punch and toughness to my checking line........this line would really excell going up against anybody's top line I feel.........

As far as my defencemen goes Marty McSorely will be seeing very little ice team back of the blueline......I would only play him there if one of my guys back there got injured........If anything he would be an extra forward on my team; the enforcer if needed be.......as well you talk about my "bottom four" defencemen and your using McSorely there in that group BUT if you focus on my Top 4-defencemen who I would be playing 80-to-90% of the time anyways it would be first pair of Lary Robinson and Vladimir Lutchenko....second pair Zdeno Chara and supersniper Doug Wilson........the other 2 guys like Smith and Greschner would only see spot duty on the ice to give my top 4 guys a rest.......they would only see 10% ice time compared to the other top-4 guys on my blueline.......

I also think specialty teams would come into play bigtime for my Tigers hockey club....my top powerplay line could be Yakushev-Sakic-Ciccarelli and then I come right out with Savard-Kerr-Bure.....Kerr and Ciccarelli made a living parking their ass in front of the other teams net so those 2 guys right there would come in handy especially on the powerplay.....as well both of those 2 powerplay units have great playmakers; Sakic and Denis Savard....and they also have supersnipers on each of those units; Yakushev and Bure........Yakushev also liked to stand in front of the crease like Kerr and Ciccarelli..........and the 2 guys playing the point on the powerplay would be Robinson and Wilson......everybody whose seen Wilson play knows he has a cannon of a slapshot.....Chara isn't bad either and he's on my second PP unit.......anyways.....I think it's all a matter of opinion at this stage of the game but I honestly feel I have more CLUTCH players for the playoffs on my roster.....I have the hardware in the trophy room to prove it too in the form of SEVEN (7) CONN SMYTHE TROPHY WINNERS. :D
 
Last edited by a moderator:

BM67

Registered User
Mar 5, 2002
4,777
286
In "The System"
Visit site
monkey_00 said:
Award Winners:
Conn Smythe trophy winners:

1967...Dave Keon (C)
1971...Ken Dryden (G)
1978...Larry Robinson (D)
1979...Bob Gainey (LW)
1981...Butch Goring (C)
1987...Ron Hextall (G)
1996...Joe Sakic (C)


James Norris trophy winners:

1977, 1980...Larry Robinson
1982...Doug Wilson


Vezina trophy winners:

1973, 1976, 1977, 1978, 1979...Ken Dryden
1987...Ron Hextall


Rocket Richard trophy winners:

2000, 2001...Pavel Bure
2002...Jarome Iginla


Art Ross trophy winners:

2002...Jarome Iginla

Lester B. Pearson Award winners:

2001...Joe Sakic
2002...Jarome Iginla


Frank J. Selke trophy winners:

1978, 1979, 1980, 1981...Bob Gainey

Bud Light Plus-Minus Award winners:

2001...Joe Sakic

Lady Byng Memorial trophy winners:

1962, 1963...Dave Keon
1978...Butch Goring
2002...Joe Sakic


Hart Memorial trophy winners:

2001...Joe Sakic

Calder Memorial trophy winners:

1961...Dave Keon
1972...Ken Dryden
1992...Pavel Bure


Bill Masterton trophy winners:

1974...Henri Richard
1978...Butch Goring
1989...Tim Kerr

----------------------------------
Hamilton Tigers Allstar team selections:
1st Team Allstars:

1973, 1976, 1977, 1978, 1979...Ken Dryden
1977, 1979, 1980,...Larry Robinson
1982...Doug Wilson
1958...Henri Richard
1994...Pavel Bure
2001, 2002, 2004...Joe Sakic
2002...Jarome Iginla
1987...Ron Hextall
2004...Zdeno Chara


2nd Team Allstars:

1972, ...Ken Dryden
1978, 1981, 1986,...Larry Robinson
1985, 1990...Doug Wilson
1959, 1961, 1963...Henri Richard
1962, 1971...Dave Keon
1999, 2000, 2001...Pavel Bure
1999...Joe Sakic
2004...Jarome Iginla
1982, 1985...John Tonelli
1987...Tim Kerr
1983...Denis Savard

----------------------------------
Hamilton Tigers ROSTER:

6-4/ 207....(G) Ken Dryden (6-Stanleys)..........Hamilton Ontario
5-10/186...(G) Vladimir Dzurilla.....................Bratislavia Slovakia
6-3/ 200....(G) Ron Hextall.............................Brandon Manitoba

6-3/ 220....(D) Larry Robinson (6-Stanleys)....Winchester Ontario
6-10/260...(D) Zdeno Chara............................Trencin Slovakia
6-1/ 205....(D) Vladimir Lutchenko................Ramenskoye USSR
6-1/ 190....(D) Doug Wilson...........................Ottawa Ontario
6-3/ 215....(D) Steve Smith (3-Stanleys)..........Glascow Scotland
6-2/ 205....(D) Ron Greschner........................Goodsoil Saskatchewan
6-1/ 190....(D/F) Marty McSorley (2-Stanleys).Hamilton Ontario

5-10/ 175...(C) Denis Savard (1-Stanley)........Point Gatineau Quebec
6-3/ 230...(RW/C) Tim Kerr...........................Windsor Ontario
5-10/ 192...(LW/RW) Pavel Bure...................Moscow USSR
5-11/ 185...(C) Joe Sakic (2-Stanleys)............Burnaby B.C.
6-1/ 202...(RW) Jarome Iginla.......................Edmonton Alberta
6-3/ 200....(LW) Alexander Yakushev............Moscow USSR
5-10/ 165...(C) Butch Goring (4-Stanleys)......Boniface Manitoba
5-7/ 160...(C/W) Henri Richard (11-Stanleys).Montreal Quebec
6-2/ 190...(LW) Bob Gainey (5-Stanleys).......Peterborough Ontario
5-9/ 165...(C) Dave Keon (4-Stanleys)............Noranda Quebec
5-10/ 180...(RW) Dino Ciccarelli....................Sarnia Ontario
6-1/ 195...(LW) John Tonelli (4-Stanleys)......Hamilton Ontario
5-11/ 175..(W) Glenn Anderson (6-Stanleys)..Vancouver B.C.
---------------------------------------
http://groups.msn.com/HamiltonTigersAlltimeDraftteam13/

Compare away.

Hart:
Orr – 70, 71, 72
Mikita – 67, 68; Runner-up: 63
Hasek – 97, 98; Runner-up: 94
C. Conacher – Runner-up: 35
Clapper – Runner-up: 41
Kennedy – 55; Runner-up: 50
Lach – 45; Runner-up: 52
Apps – Runner-up: 39, 40, 42

Art Ross (scoring leader pre-48):
Orr – 70, 75; Runner-up: 71, 72, 74
Mikita – 64, 65, 67, 68; Runner-up: 66
Lindsay – 50; Runner-up: 52, 53, 57
C. Conacher – 34, 35
Moore – 58, 59
Lach – 45, 48
Boucher – Runner-up: 30
Lalonde – 19, 21; Runner-up: 20
Apps – Runner-up: 37, 38
Dumart – Runner-up: 40

Conn Smythe (*THN pick pre-65, pg 22-23, June 27/03 issue):
Orr – 70, 72
C. Conacher - *32
Kennedy - *47, *48
Lach – *46
Broda – *49
Boucher – *27
Horton – *62
Apps – *42
Hainsworth – *30

Norris (*top all-star vote getter 31-53):
Orr – 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75
Clapper – *40, *41; Runner-up: *39
Howe – Runner-up: 83, 86, 87
Seibert – *42, *43, *44; Runner-up: *35
Horton – Runner-up: 64, 69
Bouchard – *45; Runner-up: *46, *47

Selke (*pre-award selections in Ultimate Hockey)
Mikita – *68, *71
Boucher – *26, *29
Lalonde – *08

Vezina:
Hasek - 94, 95, 97, 98, 99, 01
Broda – 41, 48; Runner-up: 42, 43, 47
Hainsworth – 27, 28, 29

Jennings:
Hasek – 94, 01; Runner-up: 99

Calder:
Orr – 67
Apps – 37

Lou Kaplan (WHA ROY):
Howe – 74

Lady Byng:
Mikita – 67, 68
Boucher – 28, 29, 30, 31, 33, 34, 35; Runner-up: 32
Apps – 42; Runner-up: 47, 48

Lester B Pearson:
Orr – 75
Hasek - 97, 98

Lester Patrick:
Orr - 79
Mikita – 76
Boucher - 93

All-star Teams:
Orr - 1st: 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75; 2nd: 67
Mikita - 1st: 62, 63, 64, 66, 67, 68; 2nd: 65, 70
Hasek - 1st: 94, 95, 97, 98, 99, 01
Lindsay - 1st: 48, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 56, 57; 2nd: 49
C. Conacher - 1st: 34, 35, 36; 2nd: 32, 33
Clapper – 1st: 39, 40, 41; 2nd: 31, 35, 44
Moore - 1st: 58, 59 2nd: 61
Howe – 1st: 83, 86, 87; WHA: 79; 2nd: WHA: 74
Seibert - 1st: 35, 42, 43, 44; 2nd: 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41
Kennedy - 2nd: 50, 51, 54
Lach – 1st: 45, 48, 52; 2nd: 44, 46
Broda - 1st: 41, 48 2nd: 42
Boucher – 1st: 33, 34, 35; 2nd: 31
Horton – 1st: 64, 68, 69; 2nd: 54, 63, 67
Apps – 1st: 39, 42; 2nd: 38, 41, 43
Bouchard – 1st: 45, 46, 47; 2nd: 44
Patrick – 1st: 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 38
Dumart – 2nd: 40, 41, 47

NHL Goals leader:
Lindsay - 48
C. Conacher - 31, 32, 34, 35, 36
Moore – 58
Bondra – 95, 98
Lalonde – 19

NHL Assists leader (* set or tied NHL record):
Orr – *70, *71, 72, 74, 75
Mikita - *65, 66, *67
Lindsay – *50, 57
Moore – 59
Kennedy – 51
Lach – *45, 46, 52
Boucher – 29, *30, 33
Lalonde – *19
Apps – 37, 38

NHL Playoff Goals leader:
Mikita - 61
Lindsay - 52
Conacher - 32
Moore - 60
Howe - WHA: 75
Kennedy - 45, 48
Boucher - 28
Lalonde - 19
Apps - 40

NHL Playoff Assists leader:
Orr - 72, 74
Mikita - 62
Lindsay - 49
Conacher - 35
Moore - 54, 59
Kennedy - 49
Lach - 44, 46
Boucher - 32
Apps - 42

NHL Defensive leaders:
Orr – Goals: 67, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75 Assists: 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75 Points: 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75
Clapper – Goals: 39 Assists: 40, 41
Seibert - Goals: 34 Assists: 43
Mohns – Goals: 60, 61, 62 Points: 60

Cup Rings (*Captain):
Orr – 70, 72
Mikita – 61
Lindsay – 50, 52, *54, *55
C. Conacher – 32
Clapper – 29, 39, *41
Moore - 53, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60
Howe – WHA: 74, 75
Seibert - 33, 38
Kennedy – 45, 47, 48, *49, *51
Lach – 44, 46, 53
Broda - 42, 47, 48, 49, 51
Boucher – 28, 33
Horton – 62, 63, 64, 67
Lalonde – 16
Apps – *42, *47, *48
Bouchard – 44, 46, *53, *56
Patrick – 07, 08, 25, 28, 33
Dumart – 39, 41
Hainsworth – 30, 31
MacLean - 95

Captains: Mikita, Lindsay, Conacher, Clapper, Seibert, Kennedy, Lalonde, Apps, Bouchard, Mohns
 

monkey_00*

Guest
BM67..............

I never said I had the best team........BUT let"s not forget that team had the first pick overall and If I had the first pick overall I too would pick Bobby Orr.........add to the fact that I had the last pick in the draft in the first round so by the time it was my turn to select too many of the elite players were gone.....there was no more Orr's, Lemieux's and Rocket Richards available for me to select....that's not an excuse that's just the way it is.........PLUS alot of those players on that team you displayed played there NHL hockey in the earlier years of the League and were alot smaller and less talented than the modern day players...........don"t get me wrong players like Hainsworth, Dumart, Patrick, Lach and Moore were GREATS in their day but going up against my team one-on one with the likes of a Pavel Bure, Sakic, Yakusahev, Kerr, Savard, Robinson they would be no match IMO.........PLUS the the main reason why that team "MIGHT" stand out is because of the best player alltime which I agree they have in BOBBY ORR.......you take Orr away from that roster and all of a sudden I don't think that club goes any higher than the #5-spot in our League........you add Orr to my team OR anybody's team for that matter and you will quickly see how much better any of the teams involved improve.....Orr was that good..........In summary in their day those players you listed were great but they were also too small and not as talented as alot of the other NHLers and International superstars that came along thereafter...........the players today are bigger, stronger, faster and better...........alot of the older guys that played in the past like Gordie Howe and Johnny Bower will tell you that as well...............as well anybody who has the luck of the draw to draft first and select Bobby Orr is just plain lucky :D
 

Frightened Inmate #2

Registered User
Jun 26, 2003
4,385
1
Calgary
Visit site
I don't care about the Tikhonov being selected but look at the players that you have. Do you really think that they would respond well to his form of coaching which could be described as brutal at best. How many of your players would respond well to 10 hours of hard training in a day. That is why, you have players like Keon and Bure who would fold under that form of coaching.

Plus the Conn Smythe trophey is a bit overrated. JS Gigure and Crozier should not be considered all time greats. And well Claude Lemieux, and Ranford also won. I am not saying you have a bad team, just that there are better teams.
 

monkey_00*

Guest
Benton Fraser said:
I don't care about the Tikhonov being selected but look at the players that you have. Do you really think that they would respond well to his form of coaching which could be described as brutal at best. How many of your players would respond well to 10 hours of hard training in a day. That is why, you have players like Keon and Bure who would fold under that form of coaching.

Plus the Conn Smythe trophey is a bit overrated. JS Gigure and Crozier should not be considered all time greats. And well Claude Lemieux, and Ranford also won. I am not saying you have a bad team, just that there are better teams.

Benton Fraser........

.........Viktor Tikhonov wouldn't train my players for 10-hours a day because I own the hockey club and I would make sure that something like that wouldn't take place.............I think he would do just fine with this club because there's alot of talented and finess type players on my roster............I know you would take him if he was available....I also know what your response would be and that being that your roster of mostly Russians would respond better to Tikhonov than my players would..........I still think Tikhonov is alot smarter than you are giving him credit for....I honestly feel he is smart enough to adapt to coaching my club.......PLUS my home rink Copps Coliseum is equipped to house Olympic-sized ice dimensions which are larger than the standard NHL of 200-by-85 feet......I too have a very fast skating hockey club...Bure, Sakic, Richard, Savard, Goring, Anderson, etc, etc.....

You might think that the Conn Smythe is a bit over-rated but it"s not like my Conn Smythe trophy winners are guys like the two that you are using as examples........My Conn Smythe trophy winners are guys like Dryden, Robinson, Gainey, Sakic, Keon and Goring, players who have played on Multiple Stanley Cup Champions and Dynasties............

I will repeat what I said to BM67 on my other post of this thread and that being that I have all the respect for the NHL players from the early years in their day they were great HOWEVER, in today's NHL the players from the past would suffer from what I would term CULTURE SHOCK.......I don't think that players like Elmer Lach, Dickie Moore and Woody Dumart would be just as effective going up against the NHLers of today like they were in the past.........the players of today are ALOT Bigger, Stronger and alot Faster then the players from the past.........add to the fact that I have the biggest club with alot of talent and not just brutes.......If you have a really good small team go up a really good BIG team like mine the Bigger talented team would win......I mean with some of the size differences we have here my modern day big guys would crush the smaller players from the past......the game today is also alot more physical......again these players from the past would suffer from CULTURE SHOCK. :D
 
Last edited by a moderator:

BM67

Registered User
Mar 5, 2002
4,777
286
In "The System"
Visit site
monkey_00 said:
BM67..............

I never said I had the best team........BUT let"s not forget that team had the first pick overall and If I had the first pick overall I too would pick Bobby Orr.........add to the fact that I had the last pick in the draft in the first round so by the time it was my turn to select too many of the elite players were gone.....there was no more Orr's, Lemieux's and Rocket Richards available for me to select....that's not an excuse that's just the way it is.........PLUS alot of those players on that team you displayed played there NHL hockey in the earlier years of the League and were alot smaller and less talented than the modern day players...........don"t get me wrong players like Hainsworth, Dumart, Patrick, Lach and Moore were GREATS in their day but going up against my team one-on one with the likes of a Pavel Bure, Sakic, Yakusahev, Kerr, Savard, Robinson they would be no match IMO.........PLUS the the main reason why that team "MIGHT" stand out is because of the best player alltime which I agree they have in BOBBY ORR.......you take Orr away from that roster and all of a sudden I don't think that club goes any higher than the #5-spot in our League........you add Orr to my team OR anybody's team for that matter and you will quickly see how much better any of the teams involved improve.....Orr was that good..........In summary in their day those players you listed were great but they were also too small and not as talented as alot of the other NHLers and International superstars that came along thereafter...........the players today are bigger, stronger, faster and better...........alot of the older guys that played in the past like Gordie Howe and Johnny Bower will tell you that as well...............as well anybody who has the luck of the draw to draft first and select Bobby Orr is just plain lucky :D

First off, I had the 2nd pick, so :p:

The fact that you made bad selections with your first picks and in the dispersal draft hurt you more than where you picked. You turned the 13th pick into the 104th pick, and selected Dino when he was quite possibly the worst player left in the dispersal draft.

BM67 - New Jersey Devils
80 - Dickie Moore, LW - 5’10â€, 185
158 - Elmer Lach, C - 5’10â€, 165
230 - Lester Patrick, D - 6’1â€, 180
253 - Woody Dumart, LW - 6’0â€, 190
254 - George Hainsworth, G - 5’6â€, 150

monkey_00 - Hamilton Tigers
65 - Henri Richard, C – 5’7â€, 160 r
66 - Pavel Bure, RW – 5’10â€, 189
91 - Dave Keon, C – 5’9â€, 165
104 - Denis Savard, C – 5’10â€, 175 r
130 - Dino Ciccarelli, RW – 5’10â€, 185 r
217 - Butch Goring, C – 5’9â€, 170

Team averages (with spares) shots
Tigers: D: 6’3.5â€, 215.3 (6’3.1â€, 218.1) r-l 1-6
Devils: D: 6’0.3â€, 190.8 (6’0.3â€, 190) r-l 3-4
Tigers: F: 5’11.6â€, 189.2 (5’11.5â€, 188.9) r-l 5-8
Devils: F: 5’10.8â€, 182.7 (5’10.8â€, 184) r-l 6-7

Tell me again how my guys are too small to compete.

Tell me again how Kerr's skating speed is better than anybody on my team. Skating speed and mobility was a major factor in my selections, so I'm not worried.

You might want to take a look at the size of most of the great Soviet players from the 72 Summit and 80's Olympic teams some time.

Yakushev compared himself to Pete Mahovlich, so you might want tone down your expectations of him as a difference maker. He wasn't still around at 169 because nobody knew who he was.

The fact that my team has 20 NHL 1st team all-stars after expansion, and your team has 17 total, might indicate that there's more of a difference than just Orr. In fact if you want Orr make me an offer.
 

Evil Sather

YOU KILL THE JOE
Jun 27, 2003
2,039
1
YOU MAKE SOME MO
Visit site
I'd like a more detailed write-up on my team... in particular why my 1st lines size (which is no worse than several other lines on other teams) is such a detriment, especially Jagr. The fact he doesn't lay guys out doesn't mean he's not fantastically strong holding on to the puck and shielding defenders away. Naslund is grittier than you might give him credit for, and although not on par with the rest of my team (IMO) career wise, he was a need pick at a need position, and his style fits that line very well.

Also, Tocchet is leagues better than Renberg. Further, I drafted Joe Thornton to be "Lindros insurance" in case someone brought up the argument that Eric has injury problems -- he would step in quite well I believe, and I'd likely be playing my 4th line as exclusive PKers (minus Joe), like the Devils did with Madden and Pandalfo.

And well, I'd love to hear more about my D :) .
 

Frightened Inmate #2

Registered User
Jun 26, 2003
4,385
1
Calgary
Visit site
Sorry but Jagr gets going when the going gets tough and generally that means he folds. I know that my view of him recently is probably clouding my vision, but for the past decade he has been little more than a floater who occasionally tries for his nation. He doesn't use size to gain room for him or his teammates, and well that does play a role when you consider he is the biggest and arguably toughest member of the line.

I will post more later.
 

monkey_00*

Guest
BM67 said:
Can any of your goalies play without a mask??

BM67..............

Heh heh heh..........That's exactly the point I am trying to make here BM67......Hainsworth never wore a mask PLUS the players back then didn't use the slap-shot like the players do today..........what happens if my PAVEL BURE for example rips a Big Slapper on Hainsworth's head?........then what?............Brahahahahaha. :D :lol :joker:
 

monkey_00*

Guest
BM67 said:
First off, I had the 2nd pick, so :p:

The fact that you made bad selections with your first picks and in the dispersal draft hurt you more than where you picked. You turned the 13th pick into the 104th pick, and selected Dino when he was quite possibly the worst player left in the dispersal draft.

BM67 - New Jersey Devils
80 - Dickie Moore, LW - 5’10â€, 185
158 - Elmer Lach, C - 5’10â€, 165
230 - Lester Patrick, D - 6’1â€, 180
253 - Woody Dumart, LW - 6’0â€, 190
254 - George Hainsworth, G - 5’6â€, 150

monkey_00 - Hamilton Tigers
65 - Henri Richard, C – 5’7â€, 160 r
66 - Pavel Bure, RW – 5’10â€, 189
91 - Dave Keon, C – 5’9â€, 165
104 - Denis Savard, C – 5’10â€, 175 r
130 - Dino Ciccarelli, RW – 5’10â€, 185 r
217 - Butch Goring, C – 5’9â€, 170

Team averages (with spares) shots
Tigers: D: 6’3.5â€, 215.3 (6’3.1â€, 218.1) r-l 1-6
Devils: D: 6’0.3â€, 190.8 (6’0.3â€, 190) r-l 3-4
Tigers: F: 5’11.6â€, 189.2 (5’11.5â€, 188.9) r-l 5-8
Devils: F: 5’10.8â€, 182.7 (5’10.8â€, 184) r-l 6-7

Tell me again how my guys are too small to compete.

Tell me again how Kerr's skating speed is better than anybody on my team. Skating speed and mobility was a major factor in my selections, so I'm not worried.

You might want to take a look at the size of most of the great Soviet players from the 72 Summit and 80's Olympic teams some time.

Yakushev compared himself to Pete Mahovlich, so you might want tone down your expectations of him as a difference maker. He wasn't still around at 169 because nobody knew who he was.

The fact that my team has 20 NHL 1st team all-stars after expansion, and your team has 17 total, might indicate that there's more of a difference than just Orr. In fact if you want Orr make me an offer.

BM67.............

Humour me some more why don't you..........I didn't say I never had small guys just not as many as you do that's all..........you are using only a handful of players there as examples........What I and EVERYBODY here would like to know is Why did you not use all of the players on my roster and compare them to all of the players on your roster???......huh?.........Like I said before your guys (in their day) were "great") but they would be no match whatsoever for the superstars of today who are much better, stronger and faster than alot of the ancient wonders on your roster...........and don't try to stear me away from my discussion with Maxwell Edison.........the reason why he ranks my team as low as he did is simply because:

(1) I drafted Viktor Tikhonov to the head coach on my team...this is CLEARLY the #1 guy he would have wanted to coach on his team........

(2) I had the last pick in the first round meaning I had back-to-back picks every round and in ONE of those rounds I went on to select Alexander Yakushev and Vladimir Lutchenko for my team and these are also CLEARLY 2 players that Maxwell Edison would have wanted to play on his hockey club especially when you consider that most of the players on his team are of Russian-decent..........he even admitted that himself cause right after I drafted those 2-Russians not only did he say I made 2 great picks he even admitted to everybody that those 2 guys were also going to be his next 2-selections in our draft............this is why he ranks my club as low as he did..........he's just pretty sore fellow that I took away 3-guys that he would have selected for himself in the draft...........Oh well :D

Your team might have 20-first team allstars BUT when did those guys play?....I say the vast majority of them played during the Original 6 years.......again these guys were great players in their day but alot of the older players from that Era like Johnny Bower for example will to you that the NHL players of today are MUCH bigger, stronger and faster than the players were in the past........come on.....even YOU have to admit that right?..........

Your team is not THAT bad........I mean you have the best player in the draft in BOBBY ORR BUT I feel that your team will be in VERY tough IMO most nights against some of the other teams of our League.............too many Early Era players and Hainsworth playing with no mask are a couple of classic examples here.........

.................nice talking to you...........good luck in the next draft. :D
 

Frightened Inmate #2

Registered User
Jun 26, 2003
4,385
1
Calgary
Visit site
Not that I really care, but when it comes to coaches he doesn't fit your team. He was a dictator of the team and nothing you say will change that. You know what he did to khabibulin in 1992 right.... do you think that me first type players like Pavel Bure will respond well to that. ... I don't.

Anyways on to Round Three.
 

monkey_00*

Guest
Benton Fraser said:
Not that I really care, but when it comes to coaches he doesn't fit your team. He was a dictator of the team and nothing you say will change that. You know what he did to khabibulin in 1992 right.... do you think that me first type players like Pavel Bure will respond well to that. ... I don't.

Anyways on to Round Three.

Benton Fraser................

Well everybody is entitled to their opinions I guess.........thanks for the rankings............ even though you did a lousy job of it........It's pretty obvious to everyone here that you wanted Tikhonov for your hockey club.........Brahahahaha :D
 

monkey_00*

Guest
Benton Fraser said:
Oh I did want him for my club, but when you selected him it appears as though it did you a great deal of harm at least in my opinion. But that doesn't really matter now does it....

Benton Fraser..........

Oh and the problem here is even though YOU wanted him for your hockey club more than I wanted him on mine I still have more respect for the guy than you do.......I don't think you are being fair about his coaching abilities....I honestly feel he's alot smarter than what you are getting him credit for...........I also feel that you are somewhat hurt that I selected him before you did just by the way you rank the teams and also you didn't even have anything to say about my forwards you left it at one line like "Oh I almost forgot about these guys...bla bla bla".......not that it really matters anyways I have my own version of what the ranking should be like.................anyways, It's only a Hockey Pool.......no need to get your panties tied up in a knot. :D
 
Last edited by a moderator:

BM67

Registered User
Mar 5, 2002
4,777
286
In "The System"
Visit site
monkey_00 said:
BM67.............

Humour me some more why don't you..........I didn't say I never had small guys just not as many as you do that's all..........you are using only a handful of players there as examples........

I used as an example the players you named in your post as being "no match" for your players. If YOU pick bad examples don't blame me.

monkey_00 said:
What I and EVERYBODY here would like to know is Why did you not use all of the players on my roster and compare them to all of the players on your roster???......huh?.........

Look at the team averages I gave. Your forwards are less than an inch taller and about 5 pounds heavier. I don't see that making any difference. Since more of my guys are older players, putting them on a proper diet and exercise plan for a couple of months would likely make my team heavier than yours. Add in the modern habit of fudging on player sizes, and I don't see any advantage in size for your forwards at all.


monkey_00 said:
Your team might have 20-first team allstars BUT when did those guys play?....I say the vast majority of them played during the Original 6 years.......

Pay attention now monkey, I have 20 1st All-Star Team berths AFTER the 68 EXPANSION. I have OVER 70 in TOTAL.

monkey_00 said:
again these guys were great players in their day but alot of the older players from that Era like Johnny Bower for example will to you that the NHL players of today are MUCH bigger, stronger and faster than the players were in the past........come on.....even YOU have to admit that right?..........

I admit that they are bigger, stronger and faster. I do dispute the much, at least when talking about the best of the players from the past. The top end skaters from the past would still be good skaters today. They might go from being The fastest to just being fast, but they wouldn't be considered slow.

monkey_00 said:
Your team is not THAT bad........I mean you have the best player in the draft in BOBBY ORR BUT I feel that your team will be in VERY tough IMO most nights against some of the other teams of our League.............too many Early Era players and Hainsworth playing with no mask are a couple of classic examples here.........

.................nice talking to you...........good luck in the next draft. :D

What makes you think Hainsworth is playing without a mask but your goalie isn't?
 

monkey_00*

Guest
All my goalies were masks bro.....Dryden, Dzurilla and Hextall.....that's why :D

Your team isn't THAT bad just a tad bit over-rated but I guess that's what happens when someone has Bobby Orr (greatest player of alltime) on their team......most nights that hockey club of yours would be in VERY tough....I hope for your teams sake that Hasek is the starting netminder and not Hainsworth who played his NHL hockey without a mask or my guys like Pavel Bure, Joe Sakic and Doug Wilson will be ripping slappers towards his head.....heh heh heh..........

............ok kids.........off to round #3.........ding ding ding ding. :yo:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad